Rumor: Trade Rumor Thread III: "Trade 40 goal scorer for picks= Cup contenders" edition

[RGY]

You shouldn't be. First, let's look at the red flags here. O'Reilly didn't show "progression" in his offense. His offense more than doubled from the previous year. You can attribute that to something magical "clicking" in his head, or perhaps you can attribute it to the fact that he rode shotgun on the Landeskog gravy train. Yes, O'Reilly brings more than JUST offense, but there's a reason you don't pay big money or trade valuable pieces for defensive specialists--they aren't hard to find.

Next, let's look at the story that surrounds O'Reilly. He has ONE good season as a complete (offense and defense) player, and then immediately holds out for a contract north of 4 million dollars. He's touted as a heart and soul guy. He defends well. He may have benefitted from playing with a more talented winger. There is speculation that he might be sulking because his line-mate got the C over him. Is any of this sounding familar? It should. It's the Brandon Dubinsky story to a T with three slight differences--Dubi didn't hold out of any actual games, he had multiple high-production seasons before asking to be paid, and oh yeah--you guys HATED him. Now you want to throw OTHER valuable pieces to replace him!?

Finally, let's put all of that aside. We'll pretend that O'Reilly has demonstrated consistent 50+ point scoring over multiple years. We'll pretend that last year was all him and that Landeskog had nothing to do with it. We'll pretend that he's not a contractual nightmare. Guess what? It's STILL stupid to entertain trading Del Zotto for O'Reilly, and here's why:

Earlier in the thread, someone said that they would make the trade because we could go out and replace Del Zotto via trade or FA. Since Leetch left (ten years ago), how many 40+ point defensemen do you think we've had on this team? Though not for lack of trying (Redden, Poti, Rachunek, Ozo, etc), the Rangers have only had TWO defensemen score 40 or more points. Michael Del Zotto and Rozsival (who scored 40 even in 06-07, when scoring was still way up). Granted, some guys have come close (Rozsival with 30, Girardi with 31, Staal with 29, McD with 32), but ONLY those two guys have done it (over the last 10 years, MDZ has the best and third best offensive seasons from the blueline).

How many 50+ point forwards have we had in that same time frame? Fifteen (Callahan, Stepan, Dubinsky, Prospal, Gaborik, Richards, Gomez, Zherdev, Drury, Jagr, Nylander, Straka, Shanahan, Rucinsky, Holik) and most of those guys have done it more than once.

I know there's a segment of this fan base that irrationally hates this kid, but you need to wake up and realize just how rare an asset he is. Use your heads. The Rangers have developed three guys in the last ten years who can do what O'Reilly can do (and Hags would have had a chance to get there as well if he'd played the full season last year). They've signed 12 other guys that did the same. Despite trying to develop guys (Staal, Girardi, Pock, Tyutin) or sign guys (Rach, Poti, Ozo, Redden), only two guys ever did what MDZ has done once (and nearly done before).

There are no words strong enough to vilify the idea of trading something we've spent ten years trying to find in exchange for a guy who IS easy to find elsewhere. I'm completely baffled by the RO'R love in this thread.

Great post and spot on. It amazes me how people don't look at the facts before they start spitting out trade proposals and packing bags.

Who cares about awards and stats?

We have a good PMD.
We have two good Top 6 centers.

If we trade MDZ for ROR?

We have no good PMD.
We have three Top 6 centers.

How is that a forward move?

Another good post.

Center depth is arguably more important than having a good PMD, especially when there's McD, Staal, and Girardi to start off our defensive depth.

Richards is only getting older, Stepan looks like a solid #2, Miller's a question mark, and then there's Boyle. ROR makes the spine of the team very solid.

I'm so 50/50 on a MDZ/ROR move.

How is center depth more important than a PMD? We have struggled to find a player like MDZ for roughly a decade. He is every bit just as important as having good center depth. You mention the other three defensemen, but they are NOT offensive defensemen. They are shutdown defensemen who can chip in some offense especially on a more talented team. You need MDZ to play the point on the PP. He has better vision out there and better Hockey IQ when it comes to the offensive side of the game. He makes good outlet passes for the most part though I think that part of his game as well as starting rushes, especially on the PP, could use some work. I just don't know why MDZ is looked at as a 4th defenseman behind those guys when he brings something to the table that they do not. Not to mention he signed a great bridge contract that saved us money.

And it's also funny how we have people here ready to trade MDZ, but we also had people here complaining that we took McIlrath over Fowler as if we were so worried about having a solid PMD. Now it's not as important? And it wasn't like our center depth was so great during that draft that we could focus on a PMD...but yet we treated both positions as being equally important the past few years. Now a sexy name comes along and we're willing to dump MDZ? Get real.

And Miller is a question mark? It's his first damn season. He is 19 years old, helped team USA win the WJC in January. If he is a question mark then I wonder how RoR was viewed during his rookie year with the Avs and even the year(s) prior to that.

 

[NY Lito]

Great post and spot on. It amazes me how people don't look at the facts before they start spitting out trade proposals and packing bags.

Another good post.



How is center depth more important than a PMD? We have struggled to find a player like MDZ for roughly a decade. He is every bit just as important as having good center depth. You mention the other three defensemen, but they are NOT offensive defensemen. They are shutdown defensemen who can chip in some offense especially on a more talented team. You need MDZ to play the point on the PP. He has better vision out there and better Hockey IQ when it comes to the offensive side of the game. He makes good outlet passes for the most part though I think that part of his game as well as starting rushes, especially on the PP, could use some work. I just don't know why MDZ is looked at as a 4th defenseman behind those guys when he brings something to the table that they do not. Not to mention he signed a great bridge contract that saved us money.

And it's also funny how we have people here ready to trade MDZ, but we also had people here complaining that we took McIlrath over Fowler as if we were so worried about having a solid PMD. Now it's not as important? And it wasn't like our center depth was so great during that draft that we could focus on a PMD...but yet we treated both positions as being equally important the past few years. Now a sexy name comes along and we're willing to dump MDZ? Get real.

And Miller is a question mark? It's his first damn season. He is 19 years old, helped team USA win the WJC in January. If he is a question mark then I wonder how RoR was viewed during his rookie year with the Avs and even the year(s) prior to that.

Hence why I said arguably. I'm not saying we should or shouldn't do a trade involving MDZ.

We need to play him on the point? Why? So he can miss wide on another wrister? He's not the point presence our PP needs, not at all.

And Miller is a question mark, it being his first damn season and all. Who knows how he'll turn out. I was discussing the organization's center depth moving forward. Right now, it's not bright at all. Stepan and maybe (hopefully) Miller, that's it.

 

[smoneil]

Hence why I said arguably. I'm not saying we should or shouldn't do a trade involving MDZ.

We need to play him on the point? Why? So he can miss wide on another wrister? He's not the point presence our PP needs, not at all.

And Miller is a question mark, it being his first damn season and all. Who knows how he'll turn out. I was discussing the organization's center depth moving forward. Right now, it's not bright at all. Stepan and maybe (hopefully) Miller, that's it.

Del Zotto's shot has been on target a lot more so far this year compared to last. His shooting percentage is up as well. And frankly, even WITH his trouble hitting the net, he did something that almost nobody on this team has done in a decade (and he's nearly done it twice). All this from a 22 year old. If he's doing things like that with youthful flaws in his game, just how good can he be when he irons those flaws out (and he's been progressing beautifully for three straight years).

I'm a bit concerned about center depth as well. I agree that we can't project Miller based on his brief stint on the roster. That said, you can't ignore Richards. He's on this roster and will be AT LEAST through next season. That gives Sather plenty of time to draft/sign/trade for the center insurance that we need. Maybe Nieves becomes that guy. Maybe Sather gets a big-name 1st line UFA? Either way, there's time. Trading a rare player for a less-than-ideal solution to a problem we don't have yet is just fool-hardy.

 

[BBKers]

If they get ROR you can say goodbye to Gáborík come the summertime. Which might not be so bad because it frees up cap space and replenishes the system. Only thing is, you're losing a premier goal scorer

Why do people keep saying this?
It is simply an Urban Legend myth...

Depends a bit if Boyle is in the deal. Let us just say he is

But we are not gonna trade MDZ + one of Kreider/Miller/Big Mac for ROR as some crazies have suggested

Look below please:

THIS YEAR
* Michael Del Zotto, Brian Boyle, a mid level prospect and a 3rd round 2013 pick are traded to Colorado for Ryan O´Reilly, Shane O´Brien and a lower 2013 pick.
* Ryan O´Reilly is signed by NYR on a 2 year bridge contract for $3,700,000 per annum.
* NYR trade prospects/picks at the deadline for a #5/#6 UFA rental on D and a depth fwd

No Cap Problems this year at all...

NEXT YEAR
* RFA Ryan McDonagh signed as free agent for $4,200,000 per for 4-5 years.
* RFA Carl Hagelin signed as free agent for $1,900,000 per for 2 years.
* RFA Derek Stepan signed as free agent for $2,400,000 per for 2 years.
* D Dylan McIlrath recalled to NYR.
* RFA Brandon Mashinter signed as free agent for $600,000 per for 2 years.
* One of Brandon Mashinter or Micheal Haley is recalled to NYR as #13 Fwd.

2013/2014 NEW YORK RANGERS
FORWARDS
Chris Kreider ($1.325m) / Brad Richards ($6.667m) / Marian Gaborik ($7.500m)
Carl Hagelin ($1.900m) / Derek Stepan ($2.400m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
J.T. Miller ($1.244m) / Ryan O´Reilly ($3.700m) / Ryan Callahan ($4.275m)
Taylor Pyatt ($1.550m) / Darroll Powe ($1.067m) / Arron Asham ($1.000m)
Micheal Haley or Brandon Mashinter ($0.600m)

DEFENSEMEN
Ryan McDonagh ($4.300m) / Dan Girardi ($3.325m)
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Anton Stralman ($1.700m)
Shane O´Brien ($2.000m) / Dylan McIlrath ($1.295m)
Stu Bickel ($0.750m)

GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m)
Martin Biron ($1.300m)

Roster Size - 22 players
Salary Cap - $64,300,000
Salary Cap Payroll - $65,285,000
Bonuses - $2,050,000
Salary Cap Space - $1,065,000

Not at all saying that this trade will go through. But it could. Value seems about fair as well IMO. Seems like train has left the station already though...

A 2 year bridge deal with ROR at $3,7M per in New Yorrk is about MAX for what he can get right now - considering all the circumstances. More than Duchene got. Regardless of what is coming out of the press.

But the NYR resignings will be very close to these numbers, that is a given IMO. So simply saying Rangers have the space they need to do this and still sign their RFAs and core players. That would be a nasty team to meet too. With a huge amount of roster options.

BUT

Since this is a trade thread full of madness - this is what I would instead like to see :

NOW - ROR + Barrie + 7th for MDZ + Boyle + prospect + 3rd

IN 2 WEEKS - Murray for 3rd + Ceresnak
or
DEADLINE - Gonchar for Eminger, Christian Thomas and a 3rd

ALSO Bring in Zuccarello when Magnitorsk... is eliminated. COSTS ONLY A BIT OF DOLANS MONEY

Pyatt - Richards - Gaborik
Hagelin - Stepan - Nash
Kreider or Miller - ROR - Callahan
Powe (Mashinter) - Halpern - Zucc/Asham

McD - Girardi
Staal - Stralman
Murray or Gonchar - Barrie
Gilroy, Bickel

Ouch

 

[RangerBoy]

Jeff Gorton likes the big boys. The guys with size. Guys with grit. Gorton joined the Rangers in 2007 as a scout. He was elevated to assistant director of player personnel in 2008 assisting Gordie Clark. The Rangers first round picks have been Kreider,McIlrath,Miller and Skjei. Big players who can skate. Gorton ran the Bruins 2006 draft before Boston hired Chiarelli. Besides taking Kessel,Boston took Lucic and Marchand. O'Reilly fits that mold. Gorton pushed for Sather to acquire McDonagh.

 

[RangerBoy]

Is DZ really a PMD? In today's NHL,how many true PMD are playing? I like DZ. He has his moments where his game falls apart. DZ is not Brian Leetch or even James Patrick. Jeep would win the Norris in the current NHL. You don't see D with high goal totals anymore. No one scores from the point anymore. No MacInnis or Doug Wilson with the big shot. Every team is no defensive minded. Boston won without a PMD. Leetch. Coffey. Housley. Those guys were puck moving defensemen. They would lead the rush. Karlsson is the only player who fits that mold.

 

[Matt Rentfree]

I have a stupid question. Isn't part of the reason ROR wants out of Colorado is that he has been relegated to 3C? How does this change if we trade for him?

Richards
Stepan
ROR

 

[Ola]

Is DZ really a PMD? In today's NHL,how many true PMD are playing? I like DZ. He has his moments where his game falls apart. DZ is not Brian Leetch or even James Patrick. Jeep would win the Norris in the current NHL. You don't see D with high goal totals anymore. No one scores from the point anymore. No MacInnis or Doug Wilson with the big shot. Every team is no defensive minded. Boston won without a PMD. Leetch. Coffey. Housley. Those guys were puck moving defensemen. They would lead the rush. Karlsson is the only player who fits that mold.

Slightly OT in this thread, but the PMD's were abolished during the trap-era -- and has not quite recovered. With Erik Karlsson obviously being the first young good PMD in my humble opinion since like Zubov and co.

The kids of today of course don't quite that, and many "experts" forget, but Brian Leetch was like almost as talented offensively as the most talented forwards in the game.

Erik Karlsson is a great young D and has a helluva impact on the games he play in. But imagine like a Crosby or Kovalchuk on D, then you get a Orr or Leetch or Coffey or the like. But during the trapping era, it made no sense to transport or make plays with the puck in the neutral zone -- so they disapeared.

 

[Brief Candle]

The only obvious move to make this team better is to trade Gabby straight for Biznasty.

 

[Ola]

On the topic of need of a PMD in the game today, we also gotta look into how a team paly, and what type of system they use, and how well they are drilled etc.

RB say that Boston won without a true puckmoving D, and that might be true (Tomas Kaberle did have 11 pts for them in the PO's...), but their blueline is definitely not even remotely a non-puckmoving blueline -- its the opposite. Their blueline moves the puck a helluva lot better and more often then our blueline does, for example. But we are extreme in that regard. Few teams had bluelines that moved the puck better than Boston (Boston did not have one forward who scored more than 62 pts either, nobody say that you don't need a forward who can score 63 pts in 82 games to win a cup). No team had a blueline that moved the puck better than Chicago when they won. When ANA won they had a Scott Niedermayer who passed the puck and handled it under pressure like a god. When Neids wasn't on the ice, Pronger was and an experienced Pronger handled the puck really really well too. Detroit's blueline is the best puckmoving blueline in the game ever. Pittsburg when they won had Gonchar, Letang and Goligoski.

Its true that we only have one decent puck moving D, that isn't fitting in perfectly on this team and who isn't playing all that much. I definitely don't think we can move that D for a center without atleast getting another puck moving D. In English, if you move like MDZ for ROR you need to swing like Stepan for a puckmoving D or atleast like a package of Kreider and Boyle or something like that....

 

[Ola]

The only obvious move to make this team better is to trade Gabby straight for Biznasty.

Id take a great puckmoving D over a great sniper any day of the week.

I think centers and puckmoving D's are the one that really makes a diffrence between the best teams and teh good teams.

 

[pld459666]

You shouldn't be. First, let's look at the red flags here. O'Reilly didn't show "progression" in his offense. His offense more than doubled from the previous year. You can attribute that to something magical "clicking" in his head, or perhaps you can attribute it to the fact that he rode shotgun on the Landeskog gravy train. Yes, O'Reilly brings more than JUST offense, but there's a reason you don't pay big money or trade valuable pieces for defensive specialists--they aren't hard to find.

Next, let's look at the story that surrounds O'Reilly. He has ONE good season as a complete (offense and defense) player, and then immediately holds out for a contract north of 4 million dollars. He's touted as a heart and soul guy. He defends well. He may have benefitted from playing with a more talented winger. There is speculation that he might be sulking because his line-mate got the C over him. Is any of this sounding familar? It should. It's the Brandon Dubinsky story to a T with three slight differences--Dubi didn't hold out of any actual games, he had multiple high-production seasons before asking to be paid, and oh yeah--you guys HATED him. Now you want to throw OTHER valuable pieces to replace him!?

Finally, let's put all of that aside. We'll pretend that O'Reilly has demonstrated consistent 50+ point scoring over multiple years. We'll pretend that last year was all him and that Landeskog had nothing to do with it. We'll pretend that he's not a contractual nightmare. Guess what? It's STILL stupid to entertain trading Del Zotto for O'Reilly, and here's why:

Earlier in the thread, someone said that they would make the trade because we could go out and replace Del Zotto via trade or FA. Since Leetch left (ten years ago), how many 40+ point defensemen do you think we've had on this team? Though not for lack of trying (Redden, Poti, Rachunek, Ozo, etc), the Rangers have only had TWO defensemen score 40 or more points. Michael Del Zotto and Rozsival (who scored 40 even in 06-07, when scoring was still way up). Granted, some guys have come close (Rozsival with 30, Girardi with 31, Staal with 29, McD with 32), but ONLY those two guys have done it (over the last 10 years, MDZ has the best and third best offensive seasons from the blueline).

How many 50+ point forwards have we had in that same time frame? Fifteen (Callahan, Stepan, Dubinsky, Prospal, Gaborik, Richards, Gomez, Zherdev, Drury, Jagr, Nylander, Straka, Shanahan, Rucinsky, Holik) and most of those guys have done it more than once.

I know there's a segment of this fan base that irrationally hates this kid, but you need to wake up and realize just how rare an asset he is. Use your heads. The Rangers have developed three guys in the last ten years who can do what O'Reilly can do (and Hags would have had a chance to get there as well if he'd played the full season last year). They've signed 12 other guys that did the same. Despite trying to develop guys (Staal, Girardi, Pock, Tyutin) or sign guys (Rach, Poti, Ozo, Redden), only two guys ever did what MDZ has done once (and nearly done before).

There are no words strong enough to vilify the idea of trading something we've spent ten years trying to find in exchange for a guy who IS easy to find elsewhere. I'm completely baffled by the RO'R love in this thread.

I agree with this.

The Rangers top 4 needs to remain intact.

Staal, Girardi, McDonagh and Del Zotto need to be built around and not traded.

ROR would be nice, but not at the expense of MDZ.

Pass.

 

[Ail]

Is DZ really a PMD? In today's NHL,how many true PMD are playing? I like DZ. He has his moments where his game falls apart. DZ is not Brian Leetch or even James Patrick. Jeep would win the Norris in the current NHL. You don't see D with high goal totals anymore. No one scores from the point anymore. No MacInnis or Doug Wilson with the big shot. Every team is no defensive minded. Boston won without a PMD. Leetch. Coffey. Housley. Those guys were puck moving defensemen. They would lead the rush. Karlsson is the only player who fits that mold.

Agreed. I think the bar has been lowered a bit for the playstyle conducive to a PMD.

He's the closest thing the Rangers have to one and that alone probably gives an unfair value to what he actually brings. A PMD is just as much a luxury as having 1, 2a, 2b, 3 as your center depth. I'd rather have the center depth and 6 solid defensive defensemen rather than the current situation. Especially in the current system Torts has this team playing under.

As far as the cap situation goes, I agree it should not be done if it means cap hell for the foreseeable future, but I doubt management makes the trade and signs RoR knowing it will screw them over in the long run. I trust they are not that stupid or short-sighted.

 

[NYR Viper]

I completely agree.

Would you trade Del Zotto, who seems to me like a Phaneuf type for a guy who realistically compares to Mike Fisher?

That's trading a #1 all-around defender with some flaws in hockey IQ for a good shutdown guy, but 2C player.

I would laugh at the suggestion.

MDZ does not have Phaneuf upside. Mental capacity? Maybe. Phaneuf is a much better skater and a devastating hitter.

Jeff Gorton likes the big boys. The guys with size. Guys with grit. Gorton joined the Rangers in 2007 as a scout. He was elevated to assistant director of player personnel in 2008 assisting Gordie Clark. The Rangers first round picks have been Kreider,McIlrath,Miller and Skjei. Big players who can skate. Gorton ran the Bruins 2006 draft before Boston hired Chiarelli. Besides taking Kessel,Boston took Lucic and Marchand. O'Reilly fits that mold. Gorton pushed for Sather to acquire McDonagh.

This exactly RB. Gorton has keyed in on a certain type of player. McIlrath, Kreider, Miller, Skjei but also Prust, Boyle, Nash, McDonagh. Players who have size and can skate but also are a bit difficult to play against. ROR would be the type of player Gorton would love.

I just get the feeling MDZ isn't as high on all of their lists as some people here.

Is DZ really a PMD? In today's NHL,how many true PMD are playing? I like DZ. He has his moments where his game falls apart. DZ is not Brian Leetch or even James Patrick. Jeep would win the Norris in the current NHL. You don't see D with high goal totals anymore. No one scores from the point anymore. No MacInnis or Doug Wilson with the big shot. Every team is no defensive minded. Boston won without a PMD. Leetch. Coffey. Housley. Those guys were puck moving defensemen. They would lead the rush. Karlsson is the only player who fits that mold.

Exactly this. "Puck-movers" will be available via trade or UFA. They don't have to put up 40 points to be successful.

I agree with this.

The Rangers top 4 needs to remain intact.

Staal, Girardi, McDonagh and Del Zotto need to be built around and not traded.

ROR would be nice, but not at the expense of MDZ.

Pass.

The problem is that neither Staal or MDZ look good on the right side. Therefore the depth chart looks liek this:

McDonagh-Girardi
Staal-Stralman
MDZ-_______

Staal and McDonagh will hopefully be around for a long time. Stralman is still young as well. McIlrath has looked good in the AHL.

If MDZ can be moved for a Goligoksi or Johnson-like return, I do it all day every day.

ROR + Barrie/Elliot + for MDZ + Boyle

 

[pld459666]

MDZ does not have Phaneuf upside. Mental capacity? Maybe. Phaneuf is a much better skater and a devastating hitter.



This exactly RB. Gorton has keyed in on a certain type of player. McIlrath, Kreider, Miller, Skjei but also Prust, Boyle, Nash, McDonagh. Players who have size and can skate but also are a bit difficult to play against. ROR would be the type of player Gorton would love.

I just get the feeling MDZ isn't as high on all of their lists as some people here.



Exactly this. "Puck-movers" will be available via trade or UFA. They don't have to put up 40 points to be successful.



The problem is that neither Staal or MDZ look good on the right side. Therefore the depth chart looks liek this:

McDonagh-Girardi
Staal-Stralman
MDZ-_______
Staal and McDonagh will hopefully be around for a long time. Stralman is still young as well. McIlrath has looked good in the AHL.

If MDZ can be moved for a Goligoksi or Johnson-like return, I do it all day every day.

ROR + Barrie/Elliot + for MDZ + Boyle

I'm not sure that I see the downside to MDZ playing 3rd pairing (and tons of PP) minutes if we were to add a solid defender to add to the 3rd pairing.

We do not rely much on the 3rd pairing BECAUSE we have a horrid 6th defenceman.

expanding the top 4 to include Stralman is a solid group. Lets add a solid defenceman and allow Torts to use the 3rd pairing more easing the pressure, minutes and workload for the top 4. Keeps the team fresher as we head into the PO's.

 

[NYR Viper]

Looking around the league at who may be bought out this summer or next as part of the compliance buyouts and what extra UFA's may be available:

STL:
No one

PHI:
Pronger
Bryz?

VAN:
Ballard
Luongo

MIN:
Heatley
Harding

CHI:
Hossa?
Olezs
Frolik
Montador

SJ:
None

NYR:
Richards due to length?

MON:
Kaberle
Cole?

CAL:
Stajan
JBo?
Glencross?

BUF:
Leino
Erhoff due to length?
Myers due to poor play?

TB:
Ohlund
Lecavalier due to length?
Malone?

WSH:
Ward?

TO:
Komisarek
Liles

LA:
Carter due to length?
Richards due to length?
Williams?

Detroit:
Samuelsson?
Quincey?
Franzen due to length?
Zetterberg due to length?

BOS:
None?

PIT:
Martin?
Fleury?

Carolina:
Ruutu?

NJ:
Volchenkov?

Dallas:
Goligoski?

WPG:
None

FLA:
Upshall?
Jovo?
Bergenheim?
Kopecky?

ANA:
Souray?

EDM:
Horcoff
Smyth

NSH:
Gasutad?
Fischer?
Legwand?

OTT:
None

COL:
Hejda
O'Brein
Hunwick
Zanon

NYI:
DP

CLB:
Umberger?
Wiz?

PHX:
Doan?

 

[NYR Viper]

I'm not sure that I see the downside to MDZ playing 3rd pairing (and tons of PP) minutes if we were to add a solid defender to add to the 3rd pairing.

We do not rely much on the 3rd pairing BECAUSE we have a horrid 6th defenceman.

expanding the top 4 to include Stralman is a solid group. Lets add a solid defenceman and allow Torts to use the 3rd pairing more easing the pressure, minutes and workload for the top 4. Keeps the team fresher as we head into the PO's.

Just that his value to another team will be greater than his value to the Rangers. Also, I am not sold on his offensive abilities really. He gets a ton of PP time where he gets quite a few of his points.

If MDZ or Staal could play on the right side it would be a different story, but they seem to be unable to.

 

[Trxjw]

Only on HFB is playing with a 50 point rookie considered "riding the gravy train" to offensive production.

A major factor in his offensive outburst is that he went from a 3rd line checking role getting 16 minutes per night with a ton of time on the PK, to a top-line center getting nearly 20 minutes a night with fewer minutes on the PK and nearly 2 minutes more on average on the PP. A red flag would be if he had been given that opportunity and his numbers remained stagnant. The kid managed a 30 point bump in production while maintaining Selke-caliber defensive play. He also took a third of all of Colorado's face-offs last year and won 52% of them.

 

[pld459666]

For someone that is supposed to be "stiff" to play against, having 62 registered hits seems awfully low. I mean for pete's sake, Gaborik had one more hit.

Additionally, his blocked shot totals is a paltry 50 and his give away totals rank 4th on his own team, 2nd amongst forwards.

the good side is that I love the 100+ takeaways and his 52.8 FO% would have led the Rangers for players taking a significant amount of face off's.

All that said, I'm not sold that parting with our best offensive defenceman is the way to go to acquire ROR.

 

[NYR Viper]

Only on HFB is playing with a 50 point rookie considered "riding the gravy train" to offensive production.

A major factor in his offensive outburst is that he went from a 3rd line checking role getting 16 minutes per night with a ton of time on the PK, to a top-line center getting nearly 20 minutes a night with fewer minutes on the PK and nearly 2 minutes more on average on the PP. A red flag would be if he had been given that opportunity and his numbers remained stagnant. The kid managed a 30 point bump in production while maintaining Selke-caliber defensive play. He also took a third of all of Colorado's face-offs last year and won 52% of them.

Stop stating facts about him from actually watching him play. We only look at stats and try to poke holes. This is HF!

 

[NYR Viper]

For someone that is supposed to be "stiff" to play against, having 62 registered hits seems awfully low. I mean for pete's sake, Gaborik had one more hit.

Additionally, his blocked shot totals is a paltry 50 and his give away totals rank 4th on his own team, 2nd amongst forwards.

the good side is that I love the 100+ takeaways and his 52.8 FO% would have led the Rangers for players taking a significant amount of face off's.

All that said, I'm not sold that parting with our best offensive defenceman is the way to go to acquire ROR.

He doesn't go out of his way to make a hit. Patrice Bergeron is the same way. They use positioning and stick placement to strip the puck.

He, as a center, wouldn't be blocking all of the shots.

When you are asked to carry the puck and most of the offense, you will give up the puck. Most good players have quite a few giveaways.

I can't emphasize this enough, if ROR came up through the Rangers system, he would be beloved.

 

[Trxjw]

For someone that is supposed to be "stiff" to play against, having 62 registered hits seems awfully low. I mean for pete's sake, Gaborik had one more hit.

Additionally, his blocked shot totals is a paltry 50 and his give away totals rank 4th on his own team, 2nd amongst forwards.

the good side is that I love the 100+ takeaways and his 52.8 FO% would have led the Rangers for players taking a significant amount of face off's.

All that said, I'm not sold that parting with our best offensive defenceman is the way to go to acquire ROR.

Datsyuk had 76 hits in 82 games. Patrice Bergeron had 73 in 81. You don't need to put up big hitting numbers to be hard to play against.

 

[Blue Blooded]

Just that his value to another team will be greater than his value to the Rangers. Also, I am not sold on his offensive abilities really. He gets a ton of PP time where he gets quite a few of his points.

If MDZ or Staal could play on the right side it would be a different story, but they seem to be unable to.

Add me to the camp that is slightly tentative on Del Zotto, especially his offensive contributions.

He has trouble generating offence at ES. He has been the worst of our top 5 defencemen in SF/60 last reg. season, the playoffs, and this season. And he hasn't played very difficult competition either. In fact, the puck mostly goes the other way when he's on the ice.

On the PP he is useful, but not necessary. Richards, Strålman, and Stepan can all handle PPQB duties. Staal, McDonagh, and Girardi are fine as secondary blueliners on the PP. Our PP is terrible anyway, how much worse can it get?

Only on HFB is playing with a 50 point rookie considered "riding the gravy train" to offensive production.

A major factor in his offensive outburst is that he went from a 3rd line checking role getting 16 minutes per night with a ton of time on the PK, to a top-line center getting nearly 20 minutes a night with fewer minutes on the PK and nearly 2 minutes more on average on the PP. A red flag would be if he had been given that opportunity and his numbers remained stagnant. The kid managed a 30 point bump in production while maintaining Selke-caliber defensive play. He also took a third of all of Colorado's face-offs last year and won 52% of them.

The more I think about a possible ROR-MDZ trade, the better I feel about it. Our D can handle it and our C depth would suddenly become fantastic. My biggest quibble is his unreasonable contract demands that could set a bad precedent for our upcoming RFA's.

If Hagelin continues his level of play, is he going to get $3M+ per on a bridge deal? What about McDonagh?

 

[pld459666]

Just that his value to another team will be greater than his value to the Rangers. Also, I am not sold on his offensive abilities really. He gets a ton of PP time where he gets quite a few of his points.

If MDZ or Staal could play on the right side it would be a different story, but they seem to be unable to.

Still not convincing me that having MDZ playing on the 3rd pairing is a bad thing.

The more you post about it, the more convinced I become that keeping MDZ is a better choice.

He should get a ton of PP time, he's the best guy suited for that role amongst our defence.

40+ point defenceman playing on the 3rd pairing means we have one deep effing defence.

That's NOT a bad thing.

He's 22 and he's on pace for another 40 point season. And that's with having just 1 point in the last 8 games.

He has warts in his game defensively, but there's not defenceman on the team now, or in the system that projects to be this good offensively.

It would not be a minor mistake to move the kid right now, it would be a colossal blunder regardless of how good ROR MAY become.

As it is, ROR has had one good season on a very bad Colorado team. If people aren't sold on MDZ, then how on gods green earth could they be even a little sold on ROR??

 

[NYR Viper]

Still not convincing me that having MDZ playing on the 3rd pairing is a bad thing.

The more you post about it, the more convinced I become that keeping MDZ is a better choice.

He should get a ton of PP time, he's the best guy suited for that role amongst our defence.

40+ point defenceman playing on the 3rd pairing means we have one deep effing defence.

That's NOT a bad thing.

He's 22 and he's on pace for another 40 point season. And that's with having just 1 point in the last 8 games.

He has warts in his game defensively, but there's not defenceman on the team now, or in the system that projects to be this good offensively.

It would not be a minor mistake to move the kid right now, it would be a colossal blunder regardless of how good ROR MAY become.

As it is, ROR has had one good season on a very bad Colorado team. If people aren't sold on MDZ, then how on gods green earth could they be even a little sold on ROR??

I can't argue that having MDZ on the 3rd pairing is a bad thing. It would never be a bad thing, all I am saying is the Rangers have an opportunity to pick-up a player who can have a larger effect on the most games.

I am more sold on ROR because I have seen him play. His style and play last year on a terrible team was a shining light in Colorado. I see an opportunity to maximize an asset that will be a 3rd pairing guy on this team for the foreseeable future. MDZ is not a 3rd pairing guy. However, I don't see him ever becoming a top-pairing d-man.

The Rangers seem to be able to find good d-men in the draft.