I think Turris has more value than Max. He’s a centre. I’d say Bowers and Poehling are fairly close in trade value, factoring the 3rd. Hammond is a non factor since he’s a UFA and was sent to the AHL. It’s a fairly similar trade.
You’re trading 1.5 years of Max for 7.5 years of Draisatl and paying a potential 2C and a 1st for that difference. I think that difference is worth more in my estimation since Draisatl is a more valuable player than Max, especially for a team with no good centres and plethora of good wingers (I’m including JD in that).
The difference in value of Pacioretty & Draisaitl isn't THAT much.
Well I think I've explained MY TAKE on that Duchene trade for the Sens...it was a trade motivated by money, they paid a premium to have a similar asset (Duchene vs Turris) that was signed for 2 more years, instead of having to commit 6 more years to Turris.
Using that deal as a template for this one is not good...it was a terrible, terrible trade.
If anything, it should make us realize that it's not worth paying premiums for small net gains.
You're moving out a 35 goal 65pt player for a 65-70pt player...yes, I get that he's what? 8yrs younger. But he's also got twice the cap hit and on top of that you give up your top prospect + an unprotected 1st?
Again...that's fine, but it should cost the Oilers a bit more.
Toss in a prospect or draft pick.
I just want to make it clear....Draisaitl > Pacioretty. I'm fully on board with that.
But also important to note that there was a 10pt difference between Pacioretty (67pts) and Draisaitl (77pts) last year....and Pacioretty didn't get to ride shotgun with the league MVP last year.
This year, despite the Habs torrid start and Pacioretty's torrid start, there's a 3pt difference between Pacioretty (16pts) & Draisaitl (19pts).
Unless they trade that 1st round pick acquired in this hypothetical trade and Ryan Poehling decides to stop playing hockey...
That's not possible.
Agreed...it's not, every individual piece of what the Habs would give up in this hypothetical trade, is not a lot to give up.
Collectively, it is though...they each represent our best assets. To give all 3 up for ONE player, is excessive IMO.
Especially when you're not going to get a huge statistical bump (goals & assists) from trading Pacioretty to getting Draisaitl.
What do you think? Draisaitl is going to turn into a 90+ point player for the Habs?
You can pretty much shave off 10pts from his best total from last year, that puts him right in Pacioretty territory.
Fair point...but Poehling is not McCarron.
Agreed...but in this deal, I don't think we're getting enough. I don't have a problem with what we're giving.
I just think Pacioretty's value is being severely underestimated right now because he's struggling...come back in 2 weeks when he's scored 8 goals in the last 6 games and I think opinions change drastically.
It's an assumption to think Pacioretty won't be here in 2yrs...I didn't think Plekanec would still be here, yet here he still is and it's increasingly more likely he'll be here next year.
As for McCarron...I have no idea what you're bringing him up.
Again...I don't have a problem giving up Pacioretty + Poehling + 1st round pick.
What I have a problem with is 'only' getting Draisaitl in return...there has to be something else coming back from Edmonton.
LOL....are you kidding?
even if they were equal in their play and points(which they are not) Drai is worth a lot more simply because of the position he plays.....he is also younger, those two thing boost his value WAY over Casper....centers have more trade value to begin with then wingers do,
caspers trade value has been declining for the past two years, its nowhere near where it was, especially now, look at the season he is having.....GMs dont trade for what players have done in the past, today is what counts
I think all of this Draisaitl talk is fantasy...I think Chiarelli has ZERO interest in moving him and even if he did, Pacioretty's not the type of assets he'd be looking at acquiring in exchange.Fair point.
I guess we will have to wait and see what direction Bergevin takes right after the holidays ( I don't think a deal is done before that )
For Max- I would not want to sign him after his contract is up. So getting something in return for him before he walks is key.
I think a 60-70 point C is more valuable than Max on the wing. I am not a Max hater and don't want to throw him away but if he can land a TRUE young C, not a prospect but a guy playing in the NHL who has put up points I would move him.
I know you supported the Drouin for Serge trade, and Drai is better than Drouin and Serge is better as a prospect than Poehling.
Its a steep price to pay but it would be worth it. Try and get EDM to add a pick or something but that's minor details. Drai would fit on this team down the middle and add offensive punch. Max disappears in the playoffs and is having a horrible season so far.
I mention Mac because they are similar in where they were drafted. Poehling could and might be better than Mac, but we held onto Mac to long and should of traded him for something and now he is a 4th liner. Maybe the same could happen to Poehling.
Only getting Drai isn't the issue, habs end up with the best player in the deal. Its like only getting Weber or only getting Drouin. In the end getting an extra pick or prospect doesn't matter if its what is preventing from getting Drai.
Simply put Drai will score 60 points this year, 60 point next year, 60 point the year after at least. That's 180 points over the next 3 seasons.
Poehling will score 0 this year, 0 next year, and if lucky maybe 40 the year after. The guy we draft this year probably 0 for the next 3 seasons.
Losing Max's 30 Goals would hurt, but Drai would make up for it being a c.
But I am probably biased though because I would trade Poehling and our 1st for Giroux if the flyers retained 1 Mill of salary.
Well that's kind of what I'm saying...I don't necessarily have a problem with trading Pacioretty + Poehling + 1st for Draisaitl.
I just think we should be getting another element in return because despite me thinking Draisaitl is more valuable...I don't think the on-ice results will be that much difference.
I don't believe in paying premiums for stylistic upgrades.
We're already thin in assets...thinning it out even more for a small or even nil net gain is not smart business IMO.
Ya but at some point MB has to bite the bullet and go for it. This team needs an upgrade at C. IMO its what is separating this team from moving forward into the upper echelon of the league.
MB has sat and watched various C's get moved. Mid tier guys to higher level guys because he doesn't want to pay the price or didn't have the pieces. 6 years into his tenure its time to stop thinking that. Price/Weber are in their 30's. If you aren't going for it now then when?
Polie/Dorion both traded a lot of assets for NHL talent at some point you have to bite the bullet. I won't deny its pricey but IMO it would be worth it.
As far as Max goes I know we are losing out on a great scorer and I don't think he is done or garbage like a lot of people do. But I would not bring him back after next year so he is going to be traded at some point. I would rather use him for a young C that plays in the NHL then a bunch of picks or prospects that will take 2/3 years to ever get more than 10 points in the NHL.
But like you said I think its fantasy I don't see this trade happening. PC could probably get better than that offer. Its like other teams thinking they could get Price because Montreal started out poor. PC just inked the kid to a big deal even with EDM's struggles he is part of the solution down there. They will move RNH/Lucic or other guys before Drai IMO.
The other thing to consider with regards to trading Patches is this, Bergevin will NOT trade Patches for futures (picks or prospects). The second he does this he'll get fired (because this would indicate to ownership we're abandoning competing and resorting to rebuilding). Bergevin will ONLY trade Patches for something he considers an improvement to the club in the present.
A much more attainable target IMO.
I think all of this Draisaitl talk is fantasy...I think Chiarelli has ZERO interest in moving him and even if he did, Pacioretty's not the type of assets he'd be looking at acquiring in exchange.
Personally...I think the Habs could move Pacioretty for a lot, they could get SEVERAL assets in return, so I'd focus on that rather than look at one element which is likely unattainable.
The whole thing about the idea of Pacioretty + Poehling + 1st round pick for Draisaitl is....is it the best return Habs could get for that package.
Is Pacioretty + 1st round pick could be enough to get O'reilly out of Buffalo?
Or is that entire package would be enough for Tavares if the situation change in NYI?
That pick need to get protected, that's a given.
Pacioretty need to be traded ASAP
Poehling might be good and make an impact in 2 or 3 years at best. Many prospect were overhyped and ended up being 4th liner and not even NHL materials so it's not like he's a sure shot.
Edmonton won't trade Draisaitl, if they're trading anyone it's going to be Nugent-Hopkins or attempting to unload Lucic to get rid of some salary. More likely Nugent-Hopkins IMO.
I'd target Nugent-Hopkins though, why not? He's a true center, and he's likely available if Pacioretty is going the other way. They'd have McDavid and Draisatl as centers, with Lucic and Pacioretty on the left sides.
To Edmonton: Max Pacioretty, Charlie Lindgren.
To Montreal: Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, 2018 1st, Caleb Jones.
Habs get their first line center, a defensive prospect and a first in a deep draft. Oilers get the best trigger man available for McDavid and some help in the net that they've been looking for. Both teams benefit.
Also I'd try to trade for Anthony Mantha from Detroit. Seems to be in some hot water with his coach, and could benefit from a change in scenery. I'd offer up Alex Galchenyuk as the basis, and work around whatever small give and take would be necessary to complete the deal.
I'd also try to deal Alzner (highly doubt it's possible), Benn, and try to bring in some UFA talent to help up front.
2018 Roster would look something like this: (before any trades or UFA signings)
Hudon - Nugent-Hopkins - Gallagher
Lehkonen - Drouin - Mantha
Byron - Danault - Shaw
Deslauriers - De La Rose - Carr
Jerabek - Weber
Schlemko - Petry
Alzner - Benn
Price
Montoya
To Edmonton: Max Pacioretty, Charlie Lindgren.
To Montreal: Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, 2018 1st, Caleb Jones.
Habs get their first line center, a defensive prospect and a first in a deep draft. Oilers get the best trigger man available for McDavid and some help in the net that they've been looking for. Both teams benefit.
Also I'd try to trade for Anthony Mantha from Detroit. Seems to be in some hot water with his coach, and could benefit from a change in scenery. I'd offer up Alex Galchenyuk as the basis, and work around whatever small give and take would be necessary to complete the deal.
I'd also try to deal Alzner (highly doubt it's possible), Benn, and try to bring in some UFA talent to help up front.
...
Assets: | The little brother of Seth Jones isn't as big, mobile or talented but does have more physicality in his game than his older sibling. Is aggressive in nature and displays all-round upside. |
Flaws: | Is still somewhat raw and unrefined, so he needs to become better at the decision-making process (with and without the puck). Needs to fill out his average frame. |
Career Potential: | Raw, aggressive all-round defenseman with upside. |
Where did you hear or read Mantha was available...i have a hard time believing that oneMan Anthony Mantha would perfect on the Habs...
Wonder if he's really available?
I doubt Blashill is there long
Alzner for Lucic
Alzner is from our west. Lucic can finally play with his buddy’s Gally.
Bad contract for bad contract.
Offensive need for defensive need.
It’s the perfect hockey trade.