Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread: Part 73 (Final Countdown)

[Runner77]

Does anybody know how to tap into a cell phone where you get to hear conversations and see texts? If so, let me know, I got a guy I would love to do that too.

Try an oligarch’s kid studying at an Ivy League university.

 

[Habs 4 Life]

Fearless prediction: they’re adding a ginger.

Poor Flyers lol, what a tearrible franchise

 

[Adam Michaels]

Sorry I can’t edit my previous post.

Hagel being worth more than Toffoli means that the caphit is clearly a big factor in asset valuation.

Cap hit and age. Hagel is 23 and is making 1.5M for 2 years after this year and is an RFA after that.

Toffoli is 29 and is making 4.25M for 2 years after this year and is a UFA after that.

Maybe if the Habs retained, they'd get a better return. But one of the goals of the deal from the Habs' POV was that they could remove Toffoli's entire cap hit off the books. Because part of Hughes' missions is to crate cap space.

 

[Whitesnake]

well kinda, Yes they got Stamkos and Hedman with high picks but they really hit on the other picks, Kucherov (58th), Point (79th) and Vasilevsky (19th).
Then they got a bunch of grinders that teams didn't realize were as important come playoff time (until now).

WAs mostly talking about their 1st rounders. They have NO DOUBT that their scouting group would be able to find gems later on. But can clearly do without most of their 1st rounders...except the top ones.

 

[Habs 4 Life]

Hagel was worth more than Toffoli…

Hmm…

To Tampa, yes absolutely he is. That 3 million can go on something else and help keep their core togheter

 

[Justin11]

I really believe the Hawks had no intention of moving Hagel, but when Tampa approached them with the offer, they just took it and ran.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Honestly, I will take the Stanley cup run before this pick, that was the most fun I had as a Habs fan in my life.

Like I said , (during deadline)
That team had 2x 8 loses in a row with Price and Weber in a bad division. Just shows you how lucky it was and it was a fluke. It was cool but if you ask me if it was worth it for the future of the franchise id say no.

We lost a bunch of assets for nothing
We overpaid alot of garbage ( Petry , Gallagher , Armia )
not losing in first round made us not fire Bergevin and Ducharme.
Meant that led directly into that disaster of offseason with Paquette (waived) , Perreault (waived) , Savard (albatross washed up contract). Hoffman ( Drouin 2.0) , Niku (Waived) , Dvorak (struggling to play in a top 6 in the lost of a 3rd OA and we had to give a first and a 2nd for a 3rd line center that doesnt want to play here).
Mailloux drama at the draft

The run was hilarious and fun , but the aftermath is a complete disaster if you look into it.

 

[26Mats]

Cap hit and age. Hagel is 23 and is making 1.5M for 2 years after this year and is an RFA after that.

Toffoli is 29 and is making 4.25M for 2 years after this year and is a UFA after that.

Maybe if the Habs retained, they'd get a better return. But one of the goals of the deal from the Habs' POV was that they could remove Toffoli's entire cap hit off the books. Because part of Hughes' missions is to crate cap space.

imo, Hughes' primary mission should be to get great futures, not cap space. Just my opinion.

Ron Francis tried to build his team with cap space and ignored great opportunities to get great futures. Big mistake, imo.

 

[Runner77]

You got ninja’d again. @Adam Michaels has built a direct pipeline from Twitter to this site. He’s like an oil barron, you need to lift stuff from platforms where he’s not playing.

 

[Andy]

Hagel was worth more than Toffoli…

Hmm…

Hagel is way younger, way cheaper and hasn't even entered his prime yet.

He will be playing on a star studded Tampa team, so they probably expect him to continue to develop at a cheap contract. It may even allow the bolts to move a bigger contract if his production can replace someone else's.

This is a gamble for Tampa, but a really interesting one.

 

[Guess]

Man I really wish the Habs would have waited on trading Toffoli, we likely could have got a first + top 6F prospect for him

 

[26Mats]

Hagel is way younger, way cheaper and hasn't even entered his prime yet.

He will be playing on a star studded Tampa team, so they probably expect him to continue to develop at a cheap contract. It may even allow the bolts to move a bigger contract if his production can replace someone else's.

This is a gamble for Tampa, but a really interesting one.

Even if Hagel is worth more than Toffoli, this points to Toffoli being moved too early for a lesser return than he might have landed with a little more patience.

 

[Runner77]

Hagel is more valuable then Lehkonen but with that kind of return, you absolutely need to trade Lehkonen

How much more valuable? Has to be term and cap hit driven but otherwise, how is Hagel better than Lehkonen?

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Tampa managed to find a cheap replacement for Palat and save money and still get really good season.
Florida got Chariot , and heavily in the race for Giroux because he wants to go there.
Toronto did nothing yet , they will play 1 of Tampa or FLorida round 1.
Pittsburgh ... no move yet
Washington windows is now or never no move yet
Boston no move yet
NY Rangers , got Vatrano which doesnt do much , still need to make trades.
Carolina , no move yet

There is alot of potential for a good Lekhonen return

 

[Habs Icing]

Poor Leafs. Even when they have one of their most talented teams ever they still have to deal with 2 even better teams in their division with the Bruins still right on their tails as well.

Poor is not the adjective I would use. It kinda elicits empathy for them. Sadsack, bungling, bumbling would be the more appropriate adjectives.

 

[Vachon23]

Like I said , (during deadline)
That team had 2x 8 loses in a row with Price and Weber in a bad division. Just shows you how lucky it was and it was a fluke. It was cool but if you ask me if it was worth it for the future of the franchise id say no.

We lost a bunch of assets for nothing
We overpaid alot of garbage ( Petry , Gallagher , Armia )
not losing in first round made us not fire Bergevin and Ducharme.
Meant that led directly into that disaster of offseason with Paquette (waived) , Perreault (waived) , Savard (albatross washed up contract). Hoffman ( Drouin 2.0) , Niku (Waived) , Dvorak (struggling to play in a top 6 in the lost of a 3rd OA and we had to give a first and a 2nd for a 3rd line center that doesnt want to play here).
Mailloux drama at the draft

The run was hilarious and fun , but the aftermath is a complete disaster if you look into it.

It would probably have been better for the futur yes, but there is no guarantee that I will see an other Stanley Cup run so I will take that before any asset

 

[themilosh]

WAs mostly talking about their 1st rounders. They have NO DOUBT that their scouting group would be able to find gems later on. But can clearly do without most of their 1st rounders...except the top ones.

after top two lines: it is imperative for each team to have 3rd/4th lines full of speed, muscle/weight and height. a team with 2 lines of full on brutal checking (regardless of ability to score) is imperative for a deep run in the playoffs. It throws the entire opposing team off, and creates room for our top 6 to thrive. Easier said than done, but the importance to have these guys in your system, developing to the MSL program is so badly needed when playoffs come around and the roster can be expanded.

A good example of this is Pezetta. Never going to expect much point wise during any regular season of his career (~20pt type of guy) but come playoffs, he is exactly who you want on your bottom lines.

 

[sheed36]

Amanda is so likeable. She always posted Habs lineups from a pic of her beautifully handwritten notepad. She’s the last of a generation back when everyone had nice handwriting.

Yup I use to quite enjoy the pics of her handwritten Habs lineups and listening to her on 690 before she left for her gig with the Devils.

Also remember her opening up and talking to Melnick on Bell Lets Talk day a few years ago about her struggles with mental health during her life. Looks like she's doing well which is good to see.

 

[Runner77]

23 yrs old, already 20 goals this season, bring a lot of energy and under contract for 2 other season at a cheap caphit. I think he's more valuable then Lehky

Not by a wide margin. Hagel trade proves that HuGo’s position and read on Lehkonen’s market value was bang on.

 

[Adam Michaels]

imo, Hughes' primary mission should be to get great futures, not cap space. Just my opinion.

Ron Francis tried to build his team with cap space and ignored great opportunities to get great futures. Big mistake, imo.

Hughes is doing both. Clear cap space and contract spots. Acquire picks and prospects, including two 1st round picks so far.

 

[MXD]

Well, this pretty much establishes that the return for Toffoli had been somewhat underwhelming. If it wasn't clear enough already.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

That could be fun if others named their 4 moves, in a pecking order as to the most likely to happen, listed first.

ill do it!
Lekhonen traded for a 1st + prospect (or another 2nd pick)
Kulak traded for a mid pick!
Perreault traded for 6-7th pick or future considerations
Hoffman traded to L.A for a 2nd and a prospect

 

[JoelWarlord]

Why are people using the returns for expiring rental players at 50% retained, and 23 year old forwards on pace for 30 goals signed for 2 more years at 1.5M as a reason to keep bitching about the Toffoli return lmao, they're not remotely comparable situations at all. They're different trade markets entirely due to the cap flexibility inherent to Chariot/Hagel vs Toffoli.

These trades do not mean we could have got more for Toffoli today without retaining. Rentals or players on ultra cheap contracts are valuable mid season because you can add them to the lineup without causing any future headaches or decisions. 4.25M for Toffoli is not a big number, but the teams like Florida and Tampa Bay that are throwing 1sts around like candy right now are unable to add him without forcing themselves to do a bunch of other moves to make it work in the long term. They are not comparable trades,

There just seems to be this unfounded belief that by virtue of waiting another month the price on Toffoli would have skyrocketed. It makes no real sense to me, Florida or Tampa would not be interested unless we retained (which reduces the value of the overall package for us even if we got more assets back), and it's possible Calgary would have gone in another direction instead. Yes, perhaps we could have got an additional 4th or something but these trades do not indicate whatsoever that the Habs could have done dramatically better just by waiting another few weeks to move Toffoli.

 

[Habs Halifax]

WAs mostly talking about their 1st rounders. They have NO DOUBT that their scouting group would be able to find gems later on. But can clearly do without most of their 1st rounders...except the top ones.

Do you think that it's luck or scouting with Kucherov, Cirelli, and Point? 2nd and 3rd rounders. I think the secrete you may be overlooking is draft power where you get more darts. Tampa don't have high draft power anymore.

Look at the good drafting teams. The trend you will notice is high draft power over a span of years. More darts to throw at their draft board. Yeah, there are exceptions to the rule but the exception is not the rule.

 

[Adam Michaels]

What brings Lehkonen's value up is that he will be an RFA. But also he has a track record for good playoff performer.

Lehkonen scored the game winning goal that eliminated the Penguins in the Play-In in 2020. And we all know about the goal against Vegas last year. And more than those key goals, he has the rep to step up when it matters most. A playoff team will value that.