HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #93: Y'all got any more of those 2nd line centers out there?

[Habs Halifax]

Sitting on our arses and doing nothing to let things evolve organically when you need a 2C for the youngsters to keep progressing in a good environment is not an option.

I'm not saying to sell the whole farm for a medium term solution, or to address every hole in the roster in one single offseason like Gainey tried to do one year, but adding at least a stop gap C shouldn't be second guessed as a must do.

I don't see how that would be forcing the rebuild?

If the right option is not available, what are you going to do? Force a move that doesn't really address the need and be stuck with a contract?

 

[The Great Weal]

Players of Eichel and Petersson's ilk come on the market only once in a blue moon at that age.

Behind Suzuki, he wouldn't be required to be THE guy. Round out the top 6 with size and snarl and you have two scary lines.

Throw the kitchen sink for him or Tage.

Elias Pettersson's skating and shot seems to have vanished completely. Add in the fact that he doesn't take off season training seriously and hasn't looked hungry since signing his extension along with the tendonitis, and I think there is way more risk factors than Eichel's unprecedented surgery in the NHL.

I'd still take him over most options but I can definitely see the risk in taking on that contract for an unmotivated, soft, and injured player.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I agree. This is why I'd go for Pettersson. He would be like adding a 1st/2nd OA level talent. When he's on there are few in the league who can do what he does and he'd be fantastic with Demidov.

Pettersson's talent and skill is top notch but we can't just ignore his work ethic and commitment to improving.

Sounds like a nice idea but man... if he doesn't show up, we end up with a grossly overpaid center. I'm on the fence with Pettersson. Depends on cost to acquire and how much faith we have that MSL can get him to train harder. There is some pretty hard evidence in how lazy he is and how he fades when the going gets rough. Difficult to know if a kick in the ass gets him more committed.

 

[Draft]

What I like of Ehlers is that he's a great fit culture-wise with what's already here. He's got a bit of a chip on his shoulder and would get a great opportunity to prove himself as a premier forward in the league in Montreal with perhaps the most highly regarded prospect as a linemate

He's neither big, gritty, nor a C, but the culture fit is as important as the size and position fit IMO. He'd also cost no asset to acquire

I've thought the same regarding his character and fit with the team/organization. From an offensive standpoint, it would be hard to beat what he can bring for nothing but salary. It's a tough one.

I haven't forgotten watching Ehlers protect Evans after Scheifele took his head off - really classy guy by all accounts. He knows and likes the Canadian market, he's familiar with Quebec from his QMJHL days, he's familiar with players on the team, he's been reliable and committed despite getting dicked around at times in WPG, and he's got a lot of playoff experience on very strong teams. This is an elite/star veteran player with a lot to offer over and above his on-ice performance. That's checking a lot of boxes for what this team is looking for with so many young, developing players. While an equivalent center would be ideal, what an amazing player for Demidov (and maybe even Dach) to play with.

Not perfect, but I'd be tempted.

Edit:

I'd also add that his P/60 is ridiculous. He's just about PPG while playing 3rd line minutes and with a pretty normal S%. His offensive contributions would be pretty significant.

 

[Takeru]

Elias Pettersson's skating and shot seems to have vanished completely. Add in the fact that he doesn't take off season training seriously and hasn't looked hungry since signing his extension along with the tendonitis, and I think there is way more risk factors than Eichel's unprecedented surgery in the NHL.

I'd still take him over most options but I can definitely see the risk in taking on that contract for an unmotivated, soft, and injured player.

Pettersson is a pure boom or bust scenario.
If it busts though we'll be screwed with an anchor as we try to take off for our competitive window...

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Players of Eichel and Petersson's ilk come on the market only once in a blue moon at that age.

Behind Suzuki, he wouldn't be required to be THE guy. Round out the top 6 with size and snarl and you have two scary lines.

Throw the kitchen sink for him or Tage.

EP has looked downright awful, way too risky for me

 

[Banana duck]

Not sure how accurate capwages is, but they only had Provorov playing at RD 6.2% of the time last year. Is he really a fulltime RD?

No. He was moved to the right when Mateychuk came down from Cleveland. Waddell specifically mentioned he was meeting with his agent at the combine this week to work out a deal - but Provorov wants longer term than CBJ wants to give him since we are good on LHD. He may walk, but anyone who signs him is going to have to give him term.

 

[Sorinth]

Pettersson is a pure boom or bust scenario.
If it busts though we'll be screwed with an anchor as we try to take off for our competitive window...

I'm not sure I would go as far as saying we would be screwed, there's almost always a team willing to give an elite player another chance. Just look at Dubois as a recent example. In the worst case we would probably have to give him away for nothing or even pay a sweetner for someone to take him, but that doesn't really screw us over. Also let's remember this past season which was his worst season, he still paced for 58 points which would still be a serious upgrade for us. So even if he never gets back to his prime and ends up as an overpayed player for the rest of his contract it can still make us a better team.

In terms of motivation, it comes down to the environment. What motivates one person might demotivate another but we do seem to have a good culture in place, and often motivation is contagious, when everyone around you is highly motivated you'll end up more motivated as well. And the opposite is also true where if everyone around you is unmotivated then even if you are highly motivated you're going to lose some of that.

 

[The Great Weal]

Pettersson is a pure boom or bust scenario.
If it busts though we'll be screwed with an anchor as we try to take off for our competitive window...

I can also somewhat understand Eichel not being motivated given how awful the Sabres are. Pettersson is on a playoff team and they would have made it if he tried.

 

[sampollock]

Need more tougher players. KH will beef this team up

 

[CzarDemidov]

The team was the youngest playoff team in decades and ahead of schedule. And there are always different good to great players available, even if there aren't always stars.

But no team just looks at the sexiest names on the trade market and pushes all their chips in on them. Even trade happy Vegas actively targets players to address areas of need.

You have to actually identify what you're needs are as a team and work from their. You could maybe fit one of Robertson or Rossi in what the team is building, but both? It just doesn't make sense needs-wise.

I don’t disagree that the acquisitions need to make sense but my point was the price and investment seems reasonable. We shouldn’t be afraid of giving up assets for proven talent.

I like Robertson a lot, mind you.

I’d go so far as saying that it should be fine and expected to overpay to get the right player in return.

I don't get how the players "busting" has any correlation to the claim of us being asset poor in terms of trading. If Drouin had not busted would it have counted as one of these trades because we gave up a prime asset in Sergachev? Same goes for the Dach/Newhook trades, whether they turn it around and become quality top-6 players or not we still gave up quality assets for them.

Tbf that was a autocorrect typo I didn’t meant ‘busting’ I meant ‘betting’.

Drouin for Sergachev was a swap, we gave up young Talent for other young Talent. It isn’t so much that the acquisition was a bust that I’m concerned with, it’s that we couldn’t acquire Drouin without giving up something we really couldn’t afford to give up (and lacked for years afterward): a PMD.

Keep in mind you are comparing the trades of 31 teams teams to that of 1 team, so naturally it will happen less frequently. On top of which those type of trades tend towards contending teams not rebuilding teams which we have been for some time. And even before rebuilding we weren't exactly contending.

As for posters saying a player is a must keep, what are you expecting? It's a message board with thousands of users, there's obviously going to be a very wide variety of opinion, some will say a player is a must keep and others will say they aren't.

For a very very long time the Habs have not had a core and added talent to it. The never-ending austerity is the reason why the team never got better than good.

I don’t mind different opinions of different posters, it’s more the mentality of the organization. I think overpaying to get the player who improves the roster is more important than these bargain bin and dumpster dive moves our organization tends to do (irrespective of GM).

I hope to one day soon see the Habs 1) compete and 2) actually make roster upgrades when possible

 

[G0bias]

Elias Pettersson's skating and shot seems to have vanished completely. Add in the fact that he doesn't take off season training seriously and hasn't looked hungry since signing his extension along with the tendonitis, and I think there is way more risk factors than Eichel's unprecedented surgery in the NHL.

I'd still take him over most options but I can definitely see the risk in taking on that contract for an unmotivated, soft, and injured player.

Of course there's a risk, if there wasn't he simply wouldn't be available.

Players like that just don't come around nor do their skills suddenly disappear. Eichel looked shit his last games in Buf and first season in Vegas. He too was heavily criticized for his character or lack thereof.

There's enough of a track history to suggest this is more of a blip in his career.

 

[BaseballCoach]

For a very very long time the Habs have not had a core and added talent to it. The never-ending austerity is the reason why the team never got better than good.

Did you miss the last three years?

I showed you how we added 5 pieces to our core 10 players since the 2002 draft, hwile losing no equivalent talent. .

Slaf
Matheson
Guhle
Hutson
Demidov

We also added three other pieces which while complementary each helped provide multiple wins on the ice.

Laine
Carrier
Dobes

I don’t mind different opinions of different posters, it’s more the mentality of the organization. I think overpaying to get the player who improves the roster is more important than these bargain bin and dumpster dive moves our organization tends to do (irrespective of GM).

By definition, "overpaying" does not make the roster better.

I hope to one day soon see the Habs 1) compete and 2) actually make roster upgrades when possible

you left out the word '"continue"

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

The 2 names that really interest me are Hague and Ristolainen.

Ristolainen is ass and Hague is a lefty, not sure if he can play right d, though. If he can that would be a solid add

 

[le_sean]

Ristolainen is ass and Hague is a lefty, not sure if he can play right d, though. If he can that would be a solid add

Tortorella actually helped turn Ristolainen into a decent defensive defenceman. He wouldn’t be my first or second choice, but he’s not nearly as bad as he was in Buffalo, which is a growing trend.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Pettersson is a pure boom or bust scenario.
If it busts though we'll be screwed with an anchor as we try to take off for our competitive window...

EP has looked downright awful, way too risky for me

You guys talking about this guy??

Elias Pettersson Stats And News

Get all the latest stats, news, videos, and more on Elias Pettersson.

www.nhl.com

26 year old PPG center who’s excellent defensively. Habs would be blessed by all the gods themselves to have him on the team. He’s everything the Habs could’ve hoped for for the past 30+ years and people in here acting like he’s a reclamation project after ONE subpar, injury plagued season and team drama where they’re captain basically said he wants out.

If he’s available and the Habs can get him without blowing up the current core, you do it. Period, hard stop.

Shack your heads people. He’s instantly becomes the best Hab in decades.

 

[Captain Mountain]

I don’t disagree that the acquisitions need to make sense but my point was the price and investment seems reasonable. We shouldn’t be afraid of giving up assets for proven talent.

I like Robertson a lot, mind you.

I’d go so far as saying that it should be fine and expected to overpay to get the right player in return.

I think its fair to question if Robertson's skating speed and playoff slowdowns are an issue, but that's not my point. Nor is it questions about if he'd even want to stick around in Montreal as Cali guy.

My issue is the combination, not either individually. If you acquire Robertson and intend to play him with Demidov, you'd want to target a right shot center who plays with a bit of an edge and plays at a high pace. If you're acquiring Rossi and want to play him with Demidov, you want a right shot winger who can create space, ideally with some size.

Like I'd expect if that Montreal acquired both players, the top-9 would look more like:

Caufield-Suzuki-Slafkovsky
Robertson-Evans-Demidov
Newhook-Rossi-Anderson

And we're not even getting into PP time. Robertson's not a problem because he's elite 5v5 and frequently plays PP2 in Dallas, but Rossi needs PP1 time to be productive, otherwise you're looking at Gallagher-esque production. Who are you taking off the first unit for him? Demidov? Suzuki?

I hate to invoke Bergevin, but this isn't a video game. There has to be a fit you're trying to find, an identity to play to.

And BTW, ignoring the fact that more often than not the "Bargain Bin" moves were good for the organization and overpaying has been pretty awful for many other organizations AND the Habs, you're once again fundamentally misunderstanding the current front office if you're argument is they're bargain bin shopping.

 

[Sorinth]

I don’t disagree that the acquisitions need to make sense but my point was the price and investment seems reasonable. We shouldn’t be afraid of giving up assets for proven talent.

I like Robertson a lot, mind you.

I’d go so far as saying that it should be fine and expected to overpay to get the right player in return.


Tbf that was a autocorrect typo I didn’t meant ‘busting’ I meant ‘betting’.

Drouin for Sergachev was a swap, we gave up young Talent for other young Talent. It isn’t so much that the acquisition was a bust that I’m concerned with, it’s that we couldn’t acquire Drouin without giving up something we really couldn’t afford to give up (and lacked for years afterward): a PMD.


For a very very long time the Habs have not had a core and added talent to it. The never-ending austerity is the reason why the team never got better than good.

I don’t mind different opinions of different posters, it’s more the mentality of the organization. I think overpaying to get the player who improves the roster is more important than these bargain bin and dumpster dive moves our organization tends to do (irrespective of GM).

I hope to one day soon see the Habs 1) compete and 2) actually make roster upgrades when possible

That clears things up a bit, my 2cents on the matter is that it's directly tied with being a contender and the closest we came was during Bergevin's time, and he was a terrible GM. So things like it's been a long time since we've had a core and added talent via trade to it, like sure that's arguably true, but we've had 3 years of tanking and prior to that 10 years with an inept GM. So yeah sure, but prior to that we were adding core players, Cole if we count UFAs, or in terms of trades Tanguay, even something like the Gomez trade which turned out bad fits the definition of trading young assets for established players.

So yeah it's been a long time, but that's the consequence of Molson sticking with Bergevin for so long. Hughes has already shown much more willingness to make trades where we give up something of value then Bergevin ever was.

 

[Beendair Donedat]

My uncle and cousin are Lobster fisherman down in Liscombe, so I can validate your source.

Right next door to my favorite named spot in Nova Scotia - Ecum Secum! - I can’t remember for sure which NHL player came from there but I’m thinking it was Glen Murray.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

You guys talking about this guy??

Elias Pettersson Stats And News

Get all the latest stats, news, videos, and more on Elias Pettersson.

www.nhl.com

26 year old PPG center who’s excellent defensively. Habs would be blessed by all the gods themselves to have him on the team. He’s everything the Habs could’ve hoped for for the past 30+ years and people in here acting like he’s a reclamation project after ONE subpar, injury plagued season and team drama where they’re captain basically said he wants out.

If he’s available and the Habs can get him without blowing up the current core, you do it. Period, hard stop.

Shack your heads people. He’s instantly becomes the best Hab in decades.

Suzuki is very easily a better player than Pettersson

 

[Skip Bayless]

Suzuki is very easily a better player than Pettersson

Indeed, I think people still underrate what Suzuki became this year.

On par with Barkov as the best C in the division.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Suzuki is very easily a better player than Pettersson

EP scores more goals, gets more points and I’d argue is even better or very close to Suzuki defensively.

Suzuki is a gamer and heart and soul player but he’s not more talented than EP is.

Besides, this isn’t a Suzuki vs EP post. It’s a Suzuki AND EP post. Rather see who’s better when they’re playing in the same team.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Besides, this isn’t a Suzuki vs EP post. It’s a Suzuki AND EP post. Rather see who’s better when they’re playing in the same team.

Sure, but I was responding to your claim that EP would be the best Hab in decades

 

[Sterling Archer]

Sure, but I was responding to your claim that EP would be the best Hab in decades

Which I standby. His numbers already show he is. Better than any Hab in decades including Suzuki’s.

 

[Team_Spirit]

EP40 is concussed 4 life won't touch ppg again.