HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread 92 Waiting on the DRAFT Edition

[The Great Weal]

The fact that some people think three firsts isn't nearly enough and others think it's way too much tells me it's about right in terms of value.

Patrick Kane for traded for a 3rd. Yes Crosby is better (and older), but how does that justify the difference between a 3rd and 3 1sts?

Crosby's got some more life in him. Think about how Jagr was productive into his 40s, I'd expect the same to be true with Sid. Add Sid and get depth on RD and we're contending next year.

And did Jagr get traded for 3 1sts when he was 38?

 

[LesCactus]

Of course he's going to say this. Would you expect anything else?

He should’ve buried Dubas imo.

 

[The Great Weal]

Thats what I think too, wed have to outbid Colorado, a first and a prospect would do it, max.

With that said, I think people underrate crosby here, hes 37 but hes still a top 10 player in the world.

Not underrating him, he's very good. But he's got 2 seasons left and is 38. That's not worth 3 1sts. Hell you could even argue that he's worth less than a rental given that the Pens would only trade him to where he wants to go, which is likely one or two teams if it comes to it. Those type of trades never return considerable value, look at the Patrick Kane trade.

 

[Deebs]

Some still doing the Crosby thing hey. Never give up on your dreams

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Patrick Kane for traded for a 3rd. Yes Crosby is better (and older), but how does that justify the difference between a 3rd and 3 1sts?

Patrick Kane was open to being traded. Crosby is not (at least not publicly.) A pair of firsts isn't going to get you in the door. Kane is younger and far less productive than Crosby. They aren't equivalent value.

And did Jagr get traded for 3 1sts when he was 38?

Jagr was out of the country for four years. Came back when he was 39 and then was constantly signing UFA contracts. He's not really a comparable.

You're talking about a guy who's still a top ten/twenty player in the league. He's averaged 95 points per 82 over the last three years. Even now he'd be coming in as our highest producing player. You're adding another 1st line center to the mix.

And how much does he help a guy like Demidov or Slaf or Caufield? All those guys would learn so much from him. And with this team his production would probably go up.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Come on, look at what Sid is doing with that terrible team in Pittsburgh, it's completely nuts. He has more points than Suzuki imagine them being 1-2 down the middle, we would be really hard to play against and stop!

Man I would pay a lot for Crosby, I'd start at the draft with both our 1st and their 2nd round pick back!!

And look at where Pittsburgh is in the standings.

Look, Montreal's in a playoff spot when the East has a lot of mediocre teams and where they need fewer points to make it than most seasons. They have been one of the healthiest teams in the league. They have the worst goal differential of any playoff team. They're still a pretty poor team 5v5.

It pretty much does. Look at that top six.

CC Suzuki Slaf
Demidov Crosby Laine

I'm not even sure which line is the first...

That's great, but it doesn't help Montreal being one of the worst defensive teams in the NHL.

There's no rational for Montreal acquiring Crosby (who isn't available) beyond him being Crosby, growing up a Habs fan and him being good. Which I don't think outweigh the clear eyed view of where Montreal actually is in their rebuild.

 

[The Great Weal]

Patrick Kane was open to being traded. Crosby is not (at least not publicly.) A pair of firsts isn't going to get you in the door.

Crosby would have to be open to being traded too, and it won't be to any team in the league. 3 1sts from a wildcard team for someone that plays 2 seasons on one of the very few teams he'd only play for is worse than Bergevin level asset management.

 

[Mrb1p]

Crosby would have to be open to being traded too, and it won't be to any team in the league. 3 1sts from a wildcard team for someone that plays 2 seasons on one of the very few teams he'd only play for is worse than Bergevin level asset management.

No, Bergevin would sit on his hands and be scared to make a move in a direction.

 

[Adriatic]

It pretty much does. Look at that top six.

CC Suzuki Slaf
Demidov Crosby Laine

I'm not even sure which line is the first...

Who cares!!

 

[Habs 4 Life]

He leads the league in 5v5 points with the Pens... like wtf are people smoking.

It's a no brainer, like his conditioning is top notch, I wouldn't be worried with his 2 years remaining on contract, I'm sure he is good for another 3-4

 

[The Great Weal]

No, Bergevin would sit on his hands and be scared to make a move in a direction.

What if I told you that there's a range between not doing anything and blowing your entire load on a 38 year old with 2 seasons who would only play for your team?

 

[CHfan1]

Of course he's going to say this. Would you expect anything else?

No, but Crosby has been consistent with his messaging that he wants to retire a Pittsburgh Penguin. I was wondering if anything had changed since there has been a lot of posts lately on trading for him.

 

[The Great Weal]

It's a no brainer, like his conditioning is top notch, I wouldn't be worried with his 2 years remaining on contract, I'm sure he is good for another 3-4

How do you know he even wants to play for another 3-4? He's got nothing left to prove. Even if he decides to keep playing for whatever reason, what makes you think he wouldn't go back to the Pens and would stay with us forever?

 

[Mrb1p]

How do you know he even wants to play for another 3-4? He's got nothing left to prove. Even if he decides to keep playing for whatever reason, what makes you think he wouldn't go back to the Pens and would stay with us forever?

He lives for hockey. He will play for more than two.

 

[The Great Weal]

He lives for hockey. He will play for more than two.

So he'll never retire? He'll play in the NHL until he's in his death bed? You still haven't answered as to what makes you think he'll come back to play with us after the two years.

 

[Mrb1p]

So he'll never retire? He'll play in the NHL until he's in his death bed? You still haven't answered as to what makes you think he'll come back to play with us after the two years.

Hes Sidney Crosby, im not sure why we need to convince you.

 

[ML16]

This summer will be tricker than expected with all the cap space available to every GM and our sudden LACK of cap space...

Seems like this externality will actually harm and not help the Habs in the pursuit of a 2C or top3 RHD. We'll have 10m available and need to: sign a 3C (Dvorak is 4.45 right now), a bottom6 W (Armia is at 3.4 right now), extend Heineman RFA, replace/improve upon Savard (3.5 right now), extend Struble RFA and Dobes RFA.

Can we get and Armia replacement for around 3m? A PKing winger with size, I think so.
Can we get a Dvorak replacement for around 4m? A centreman who is two-way safe, I'm less certain at that price. Many teams will want that. Let's say 4.5m
Can we replace and improve upon Savard at 3.5m? No way, we'll need to put more toward this, let's say 5m.
Heineman gets 1.5-2m
Struble gets 1.1-2m
Dobes gets 1.5-2m

Conservative tally: 3+4.5+5+1.5+1.1+1.5 = 16.6m
Carey Price LTIR = 10.5
Leaving a meagre 4.4m

Am I counting something wrong?

Leaving just 4.4m we'll have definitely improved the on-ice roster at the margins but wouldn't have caught the Big Fish 2C... let alone two of them (2C + Top3 RHD).

HOWEVER

Two players have to leave the roster to allow Demidov and Reinbacher's entry... who do they replace and how do the existing players leave (trade, retention, waivers, etc)?

I think Newhook goes down to the bottom6 and Armia is not retained... So that 3m goes toward Demidov (ELC+Bonuses)
I think Xhekaj's 1.3m and Savard's 3.5m (net 4.8m) goes toward the Savard upgrade I mentioned, so we need to eat some of the remaining 4.4m to pay for Reinbacher's ELC+bonuses

If Hughes intends to acquire a Big Fish, he'll have to get rid of some cap-inefficient players: Gallagher's 6.5m and Anderson's 5.5m sticking out like a sore thumb. Dach 3.4m being too often unavailable and needing a fresh start means he could be dealt away too. Carrier is overpaid at 3.75m if he's going to be a bottom2 pairing player (this was NSH's logic in dealing him to us) but he's not going anywhere until he definitively loses his top4 spot, so he's here for next season. Mike Matheson's 4.87m is a great good cap hit for his usage but he could be dealt away at a good valuation if the Habs do not intend to retain him after next season when he is pending UFA -- this is unlikely though, Hughes would be depriving his team of sorely needed consistency and momentum.

Anderson dealt away as a kinda cap dump would allow us to replace his production with a 1-3m player and put the savings of 2.5-4.5m toward the Big Fish. Maybe a team seeking toughness like VAN would be open to Josh Anderson (they have ton of cap space).

The point is: we need a Big Fish (2C) and likely another Big Fish (top3D) and better depth in order to be a Serious Team but we won't have the cap space to do all that without some roster surgery.

I think the issue is the 9.5M you devote to re-signing Dvorak at 4.5M and find a Savard replacement at 5M when Newhook/Dach and Reinbacher are already internal replacement for their respective roles of 3C and RHD.

The Habs should rather focus on acquiring a 2C and, ideally, swap Matheson (or Struble) for a RHD.

Available space : 95.5M

Projected cap space (with Price) : 85.5M

Available cap space (with Price’s LTIR) : 20M

ELCs (1.9M + Bonus) : Demidov (975K + Bonus), Reinbacher (975K + Bonus)

RFAs (4M) : Heineman (1.3M), Struble (1.35M), Dobes (1.35M)

Remaining cap space for UFAs / Trades with 12 forwards, 7 defensemen and 2 goalies already signed : 14M

Caufield - Suzuki - Slafkovski
Laine - 2C (7M) - Demidov
Anderson - Newhook - Dach
Heineman - Evans - Gallagher
Kapanen, Tuch/Xhekaj

Hutson - RHD (8M - Matheson/Struble’s AAV)
Guhle - Carrier
Struble/Matheson - Reinbacher
Xhekaj

Montembault
Dobes

 

[le_sean]

We've got a gaping hole on the backend and our goaltending is still a massive question mark. Far from contenders so we really shouldn't be giving up 3 1sts for someone with 2 seasons left.

Goaltending has been fine, as much as we’d like to have a Carey Price again.

Adding Crosby and Demidov is like adding two 1st line players. I think you’re downplaying how big of an impact that would have. Look at how good Suzuki has been, the city is going nuts and the team is successful - Crosby quietly has more points than him. He’s leading the league in faceoff wins (57% on the year).

And we’d be asking him to be our 2C.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

That's great, but it doesn't help Montreal being one of the worst defensive teams in the NHL.

Agree.

But that’s like saying you shouldn’t get a Norris winner because he won’t score 50 goals.

We need a 2nd line and this guy would walk in as a legit first. We’d have two firsts lined to go with Reinbacher who’s coming in. Getting Crosby doesn’t stop us from getting an additional blueliner on top of that too.

There's no rational for Montreal acquiring Crosby (who isn't available) beyond him being Crosby, growing up a Habs fan and him being good. Which I don't think outweigh the clear eyed view of where Montreal actually is in their rebuild.

No rationale for adding a 90 point player to fill a glaring need? I don’t follow what you’re saying here.

We are the 2nd youngest team in the league and are actually on target to be even younger next season. Still have good prospects making their way up… why wouldn’t we want to add a guy who makes us immediate contenders? We’ve stockpiled picks and prospects. It’s okay to deal some off. We’re in phase two of the rebuild and Crosby makes us immensely better.

 

[Bacchus1]

How's Ovechkin doing at 40? Can he still score goals?

He is leaving for the KHL next year or the following, isn’t he?

 

[Bacchus1]

Patrick Kane for traded for a 3rd. Yes Crosby is better (and older), but how does that justify the difference between a 3rd and 3 1sts?

And did Jagr get traded for 3 1sts when he was 38?

Wasn’t Kane injured and he was considered a cap dump? I remember he took dome time away from the game and it wasn’t clear whether he still had it.

 

[TomKosto]

What if I told you that there's a range between not doing anything and blowing your entire load on a 38 year old with 2 seasons who would only play for your team?

Has Crosby said he’s retiring after the next 2 seasons? You always come back to that argument. Speculation on ur side.

 

[The Great Weal]

Has Crosby said he’s retiring after the next 2 seasons? You always come back to that argument. Speculation on ur side.

Right and it's definitely not speculation that Crosby is guaranteed to play at least another 5 years and won't sign with any other team after his current contract. Crosby himself told that to all of you guys.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Right and it's definitely not speculation that Crosby is guaranteed to play at least another 5 years and won't sign with any other team after his current contract. Crosby himself told that to all of you guys.

That would be something to be discussed before any trade. Obviously if he was planning on retiring next year we wouldn't give up three firsts.

 

[TomKosto]

Right and it's definitely not speculation that Crosby is guaranteed to play at least another 5 years and won't sign with any other team after his current contract. Crosby himself told that to all of you guys.

I don’t think he wants to be traded from the Pens but to say over and over again he’s gonna retire when he’s over ppg is a stretch.