David Suzuki
Registered User
Crosby made a point to go see MSL after his mom died during their 2014 playoff series.
HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread 92 Waiting on the DRAFT Edition
- Thread starter MarkovsKnee
- Start date
JianYang
Registered User
- Sep 29, 2017
- 18,118
- 22,062
Erik Cole
They have a history of attracting some decent ufas but maybe outside of cammalleri, they don't have a history of attracting the marquee ones in a given year.
DAChampion
Registered User
- May 28, 2011
- 30,179
- 23,505
There just haven't been that many marquee UFAs on the level of Chara and Hossa. So based on statistics most teams have gotten zero.
JianYang
Registered User
- Sep 29, 2017
- 18,118
- 22,062
When I say marquee, I mean the biggest fishes from each year.
If it was a grand comparison, I'm not even entertaining the thought of cammamlleri being on the list.
DAChampion
Registered User
- May 28, 2011
- 30,179
- 23,505
I don't know if that works because in a lot of years there isnt an exceptional fish.
Look at last year for example.
JianYang
Registered User
- Sep 29, 2017
- 18,118
- 22,062
I'll give a few examples off the top of my head.
They made a lucrative pitch for Brett Hull, but he went to Detroit instead (for much less money if i recall correctly). They made a big pitch for briere, but he went to philly. They made a big pitch for gomez, but he went to new york. All were marquee guys in their respective ufa classes.
Like, these were serious pitches with huge money. It wasn't enough to entice them. I'd have to think harder for other examples but these are ones I vividly remember.
Sundin would be another one now that I think of it
CHfan1
Registered User
- Apr 23, 2012
- 8,118
- 9,991
All of those were before the CBA rule that teams can resign their own players to an 8 year term. That, more teams now signing RFA’s after their ELC expire to 8 year deals, and players being able to sign a year before their contract ends with their existing team means less and less marquee players make it to UFA in their prime.
Last year Guentzel was the top UFA player, after that it was Stamkos, who was clearly not in his prime anymore. This year’s class looks like it may only be Marner and Ehlers.
DAChampion
Registered User
- May 28, 2011
- 30,179
- 23,505
For the people saying Crosby will fall off a cliff,
I'll remind you that Ovechkin is 23 months (2 years) older than Crosby,
And he has 42 goals and 69 points in 61 games.
I'll remind you that Ovechkin is 23 months (2 years) older than Crosby,
And he has 42 goals and 69 points in 61 games.
DAChampion
Registered User
- May 28, 2011
- 30,179
- 23,505
CHfan1
Registered User
- Apr 23, 2012
- 8,118
- 9,991
Yes, I meant Marner and, maybe, Ehlers look like the only marquee UFA’s this offseason.
Lmfao, we are not getting a young top5 defenseman for that offer, come on now.
Lafleurs Guy
Guuuuuuuy!
- Jul 20, 2007
- 74,811
- 58,486
It's not ridiculous at all.
Crosby will do what he wants and he may not be available at all. But three firsts is certainly a valid offer for getting him. You never know if you don't ask. He's late 30s. What the heck do you think we'd have to offer up? Lane Hutson?
Get off your high horses with the Hutson thing. Theres a in between with him and late/mid first rounders. The conversation would probably start with Reinbacher and Hage. We wont get hlm with 2-3 mid first rounder. He’s the face of the franchise, still playing good, they gonna want guys closer to the nhl.
Anyway, you can believe what you want, thats the beauty of this forum. It’s just not realistic IMO.
- Jan 18, 2022
- 7,064
- 14,724
RHD
Would CGY trade Weegar?
NYI has Pulock but while he's a significant upgrade over Savard, it's nonetheless not the sexiest name.
Would CGY trade Weegar?
NYI has Pulock but while he's a significant upgrade over Savard, it's nonetheless not the sexiest name.
- Jan 18, 2022
- 7,064
- 14,724
This summer will be tricker than expected with all the cap space available to every GM and our sudden LACK of cap space...
Seems like this externality will actually harm and not help the Habs in the pursuit of a 2C or top3 RHD. We'll have 10m available and need to: sign a 3C (Dvorak is 4.45 right now), a bottom6 W (Armia is at 3.4 right now), extend Heineman RFA, replace/improve upon Savard (3.5 right now), extend Struble RFA and Dobes RFA.
Can we get and Armia replacement for around 3m? A PKing winger with size, I think so.
Can we get a Dvorak replacement for around 4m? A centreman who is two-way safe, I'm less certain at that price. Many teams will want that. Let's say 4.5m
Can we replace and improve upon Savard at 3.5m? No way, we'll need to put more toward this, let's say 5m.
Heineman gets 1.5-2m
Struble gets 1.1-2m
Dobes gets 1.5-2m
Conservative tally: 3+4.5+5+1.5+1.1+1.5 = 16.6m
Carey Price LTIR = 10.5
Leaving a meagre 4.4m
Am I counting something wrong?
Leaving just 4.4m we'll have definitely improved the on-ice roster at the margins but wouldn't have caught the Big Fish 2C... let alone two of them (2C + Top3 RHD).
HOWEVER
Two players have to leave the roster to allow Demidov and Reinbacher's entry... who do they replace and how do the existing players leave (trade, retention, waivers, etc)?
I think Newhook goes down to the bottom6 and Armia is not retained... So that 3m goes toward Demidov (ELC+Bonuses)
I think Xhekaj's 1.3m and Savard's 3.5m (net 4.8m) goes toward the Savard upgrade I mentioned, so we need to eat some of the remaining 4.4m to pay for Reinbacher's ELC+bonuses
If Hughes intends to acquire a Big Fish, he'll have to get rid of some cap-inefficient players: Gallagher's 6.5m and Anderson's 5.5m sticking out like a sore thumb. Dach 3.4m being too often unavailable and needing a fresh start means he could be dealt away too. Carrier is overpaid at 3.75m if he's going to be a bottom2 pairing player (this was NSH's logic in dealing him to us) but he's not going anywhere until he definitively loses his top4 spot, so he's here for next season. Mike Matheson's 4.87m is agreat good cap hit for his usage but he could be dealt away at a good valuation if the Habs do not intend to retain him after next season when he is pending UFA -- this is unlikely though, Hughes would be depriving his team of sorely needed consistency and momentum.
Anderson dealt away as a kinda cap dump would allow us to replace his production with a 1-3m player and put the savings of 2.5-4.5m toward the Big Fish. Maybe a team seeking toughness like VAN would be open to Josh Anderson (they have ton of cap space).
The point is: we need a Big Fish (2C) and likely another Big Fish (top3D) and better depth in order to be a Serious Team but we won't have the cap space to do all that without some roster surgery.
Seems like this externality will actually harm and not help the Habs in the pursuit of a 2C or top3 RHD. We'll have 10m available and need to: sign a 3C (Dvorak is 4.45 right now), a bottom6 W (Armia is at 3.4 right now), extend Heineman RFA, replace/improve upon Savard (3.5 right now), extend Struble RFA and Dobes RFA.
Can we get and Armia replacement for around 3m? A PKing winger with size, I think so.
Can we get a Dvorak replacement for around 4m? A centreman who is two-way safe, I'm less certain at that price. Many teams will want that. Let's say 4.5m
Can we replace and improve upon Savard at 3.5m? No way, we'll need to put more toward this, let's say 5m.
Heineman gets 1.5-2m
Struble gets 1.1-2m
Dobes gets 1.5-2m
Conservative tally: 3+4.5+5+1.5+1.1+1.5 = 16.6m
Carey Price LTIR = 10.5
Leaving a meagre 4.4m
Am I counting something wrong?
Leaving just 4.4m we'll have definitely improved the on-ice roster at the margins but wouldn't have caught the Big Fish 2C... let alone two of them (2C + Top3 RHD).
HOWEVER
Two players have to leave the roster to allow Demidov and Reinbacher's entry... who do they replace and how do the existing players leave (trade, retention, waivers, etc)?
I think Newhook goes down to the bottom6 and Armia is not retained... So that 3m goes toward Demidov (ELC+Bonuses)
I think Xhekaj's 1.3m and Savard's 3.5m (net 4.8m) goes toward the Savard upgrade I mentioned, so we need to eat some of the remaining 4.4m to pay for Reinbacher's ELC+bonuses
If Hughes intends to acquire a Big Fish, he'll have to get rid of some cap-inefficient players: Gallagher's 6.5m and Anderson's 5.5m sticking out like a sore thumb. Dach 3.4m being too often unavailable and needing a fresh start means he could be dealt away too. Carrier is overpaid at 3.75m if he's going to be a bottom2 pairing player (this was NSH's logic in dealing him to us) but he's not going anywhere until he definitively loses his top4 spot, so he's here for next season. Mike Matheson's 4.87m is a
Anderson dealt away as a kinda cap dump would allow us to replace his production with a 1-3m player and put the savings of 2.5-4.5m toward the Big Fish. Maybe a team seeking toughness like VAN would be open to Josh Anderson (they have ton of cap space).
The point is: we need a Big Fish (2C) and likely another Big Fish (top3D) and better depth in order to be a Serious Team but we won't have the cap space to do all that without some roster surgery.
Vachon23
Registered User
Do we need a sexy name though or just a solid defensive physical guy that can play minutes 20 minutes and + ?
Pulock would be a good fit
Lafleurs Guy
Guuuuuuuy!
- Jul 20, 2007
- 74,811
- 58,486
Right back at you. You say three firsts is ridiculous but don’t explain why. Tell us.
There’s no way on God’s green earth that Reinbacher would be an ask. Crosby has five years left. He’s not going to command that kind of premium. Not a chance. And Pittsburgh won’t demand it.
It may not be realistic but that’s not due to the offer. Three firsts and a Struble/Maillioix or Roy is more than fair.
The reality is that Crosby may not be willing to move at all. None of us can know this. So it’s pointless to speculate on that front.
What we’re doing here is assessing the value it would take to get him. Three firsts and a second tier prospect that I’ve listed should be more than enough. It kick starts Pittsburgh’s badly needed rebuild and allows them to tank for Mackenna next year.
Again, Crosby isn’t going to go to Pittsburgh to ask for a trade. The only way this is remotely possible is if we approach them with a killer trade and ask for permission to speak with him. Three firsts ought to accomplish that.
Gaylord Q Tinkledink
Registered User
- Apr 29, 2018
- 29,019
- 42,138
The Habs currently sit with 0 top 4 RHD, so it might need to be a somewhat of a sexy name.
Acquiring a RHD is almost as pressing as getting a 2C
I'll recheck the math I had done, but I seriously don't see the lack of Cap space next season to land a big fish as a 2C, even if we pay them up to Horvat money (8.5M).
I think you miscalculated, but I could be wrong. I'll get back to this later today.
- Jan 18, 2022
- 7,064
- 14,724
Pulock is a 2nd pairing guy playing 1st pairing minutes and doing an adequate job at it. If possible, and unsurprisingly, I'd prefer a 1st pairing guy. I like the defense by committee thing but a real dick-swinging minute munching d-man would be a perfect counter-weight to Hutson. Weegar is the guy I have in mind.
Currently:
Hutson - Guhle
Matheson - Carrier
Struble - [Reino]
I'd prefer Guhle on the left (where he can later partner with Reino) and a 2D next to Hutson. If we somehow retain Matheson and get the 2D...
Hutson - 2D
Guhle - Reino
Matheson - Carrier
I'm not even sure this works. What do you think?
I used Montréal Canadiens | Salary cap and contracts
Looking forward to your response
Vachon23
Registered User
I still have a lot of faith in Reinbacher
And we have an offensive dynamo on the LD so put him with a good physical RD could be a good match
Vachon23
Registered User
I don’t think Weegar will be move
I need to say that I even pay attention to Pulock this season but I always like him
Gaylord Q Tinkledink
Registered User
- Apr 29, 2018
- 29,019
- 42,138
For Reinbacher he has potential and the Habs might draft a dman with that potential, but he currently isn't one in the NHL.
I should have said that. I'm not saying he's a crap prospect, or anything, just we're not sure what he will be in the NHL
salbutera
Registered User
- Sep 10, 2019
- 13,788
- 19,644
Also, Habs likely deal Price’s contract after July 1st bonus payout freeing up $10.5M AAV
