HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #91: 2025 Trade Deadline edition

[Lafleurs Guy]

Terrible.. just shoots whenever he gets it. Skates into the boards whenever he has to carry it.

He was an up and coming player and then got punched in the face hard and has never been the same. I don’t think he’s who we want to go after. And he’s expensive. That’d be a gamble probably not one worth taking.

That being said, how many players have left Buffalo only to improve by leaps and bounds?

 

[le_sean]

8.5 M for a 60 pt player until he is 36 yo is very risky.

He’s better than that. He hit 68 last year and 70 the year before. He kills penalties and is always a league leader in faceoffs. We’d be very lucky to get a player like that to play behind Suzuki and take a lot of pressure off. And expecting less from Horvat than the Isles have asked from him should in turn benefit Bo.

 

[Benstheman]

horvat is turning 30 in April. I don’t think he has the skating ability to be productive until late 30s when his contract runs out

His effectiveness is not based on his skating. Look at Toffoli. Still being very effective and productive.

 

[WeThreeKings]

He was an up and coming player and then got punched in the face hard and has never been the same. I don’t think he’s who we want to go after. And he’s expensive. That’d be a gamble and probably not one worth taking.

That being said, how many players have left Buffalo only to improve by leaps and bounds?

It'd make more sense if he was a left shot, but he's just another right shot guy who likely ends up on the wing. Buffalo also wants roster players etc. so there's really never been a fit there for either team.

 

[TheArch]

He’s nothing like Eller. Lars at least wasn’t afraid of contact. His wingers are doing the majority of the work, that’s why he looks passable.

I don’t understand how anyone could watch Dvorak and think he’s good. It’s really a case of he was so bad for two years that just looking like an average player for a handful of games means he’s good.

View attachment 985762

Are you posting a player card from 2 years ago ? These numbers makes absolutely no sense (3% PK per say). It seems to me this card don't account this year, and it's pretty much the reason why his stock pumped a bit. He's 75th amount C for on-ice expected goals this year, one of the good PK C in the league. He's no Eller, I mentioned it, but his no thrash at all, far from it.

 

[le_sean]

Are you posting a player card from 2 years ago ? These numbers makes absolutely no sense (3% PK per se). It seems to me this card don't account this year, and it's pretty much the reason why his stock pumped a bit. He's 75th amount C for on-ice expected goals this year, one of the good PK C in the league. He's no Eller, I mentioned it, but his no thrash at all, far from it.

It’s a card from last year which proves my point that he’s been absolute dogshit for two seasons and a handful of games doesn’t change that.

They make perfect sense if you’re not clouded by whatever it is you see. I’m surprised you can even spot him on the ice, the most nothing player in existence. In fact the only time I notice him is when he gets a perfect pass from Hutson and he shoots it wide or fans on the shot.

wtf do I care about expected goals? He has a total of 11 goals in his last 90 NHL games. Put the puck in the net, don’t maybe put the puck in the net.

 

[Benstheman]

We have the assets to acquire a player who fits much better with the age of the habs core group.

Horvat is already not worth his contract. When he starts declining, that contract will become an albatross that will affect the habs chance of competing for a cup.

Those are never disponible, unless they are underachieving or have an history of big injuries. We just did it 3 times with Monahan, Dach and Newhook. What's the end game? They are not with the team anymore or they are not 2C.

The Cozens and Zegras of this world are in the same category and I don't think HuGo is still looking for that kind of project. At one point, you have to stop gambling. We are entering that period.

 

[ReHabs]

They make perfect sense if you’re not clouded by whatever it is you see.

I love this sentence

Just wanted to highlight it — perfect sentence.

 

[DrBizz4r3]

I understand that people wants a bonafide 2C, but the truth is they are either not available or comes with Small negatives. I see a good fit for Horvat (NYI straps in cash, rumor to extend Nelson, no future), but other than him, it’s a bunch of stop gap on 2C and it’s ok like that. Would be great to draft a 2C and bring a stop gap 2C or Horvat

 

[TheArch]

It’s a card from last year which proves my point that he’s been absolute dogshit for two seasons and a handful of games doesn’t change that.

They make perfect sense if you’re not clouded by whatever it is you see. I’m surprised you can even spot him on the ice, the most nothing player in existence. In fact the only time I notice him is when he gets a perfect pass from Hutson and he shoots it wide or fans on the shot.

wtf do I care about expected goals? He has a total of 11 goals in his last 90 NHL games. Put the puck in the net, don’t maybe put the puck in the net.

It’s a card from last year which proves my point that he’s been absolute dogshit for two seasons and a handful of games doesn’t change that.

They make perfect sense if you’re not clouded by whatever it is you see. I’m surprised you can even spot him on the ice, the most nothing player in existence. In fact the only time I notice him is when he gets a perfect pass from Hutson and he shoots it wide or fans on the shot.

wtf do I care about expected goals? He has a total of 11 goals in his last 90 NHL games. Put the puck in the net, don’t maybe put the puck in the net.

Obviously if you discard the last 60 games, he's a player I would have lifted to the airport myself. But it change nothing that he his very effective for quite some time now and believe me, I'm anything but biased (I'm all for selling everything and playing kids). He is not 4M good. He is 2M x 2 good, and can be flipped when one of Beck / Xhekaj / Kapanen etc kick him out.

As a side note, he's liked by most, including coaching staff.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

No matter what you do, at one point, your star players will be signed to big money until they are 34-35-36yo. It's Inevitable for a competitive team. What will you do when Suzuki becomes UFA in 5 years?? He will be 30yo. If he is still producing like he does this year, do you resign him or let him go?? If you sign him, you will need to give him a contract that will last until his 36-37 yo. Risky yes. But inevitable if you are still in your window.

Suzuki is a ~ppg forward. Players who are that good at a young age tend to age well. We have the assets to acquire a younger center that doesn't have the big risk associated with Horvat's contract.

Those are never disponible, unless they are underachieving or have an history of big injuries. We just did it 3 times with Monahan, Dach and Newhook. What's the end game? They are not with the team anymore or they are not 2C.

The Cozens and Zegras of this world are in the same category and I don't think HuGo is still looking for that kind of project. At one point, you have to stop gambling. We are entering that period.

Well you are still gambling if you go with Horvat because of his age and his contract. He might not be a good top 6 center anymore in a few years when he's like 33, and his contract is most definitely not going to age well.

Dubois would've perfect as 2C here.

If there is no young player available that makes sense to acquire, I would go with short term help like Duchene. That would allow us to see what we have in Dach, Hage, Beck, and Kapanen, and also give us more time to find a center that fits the habs core group better.

 

[Benstheman]

I'd be perfectly fine with Schenn, ROR, Horvat, etc. Just take care of the 2C problem for a decent while and I'm a happy camper. Pay what you have to.

Yeah. Let's say we trade for Horvat. We get him for 6 years until he is 36 yo. I agree there is a risk he isn't playing 2C level for the entirety of his contract. But even if he is playing 3C level for the last 2 years, there is absolutely no problem because his replacement will be Hage or any C we draft this summer.

IMO, Hage is still two seasons away from making the team as a center. 1 more year in NCAA and 1 year in Laval. The center we draft this summer is most probably also 2 years away.

So during the 6 years we have Horvat's 8,5 M$ salary, you have :

Hage : NCAA, ELC, ELC, ELC, Bridge, Bridge
drafted C : Junior, ELC, ELC, ELC, Bridge, Bridge

So the most probable year you have to sign your 2 young top C to long term contracts, Horvat is gone.

 

[TheArch]

Those are never disponible, unless they are underachieving or have an history of big injuries. We just did it 3 times with Monahan, Dach and Newhook. What's the end game? They are not with the team anymore or they are not 2C.

The Cozens and Zegras of this world are in the same category and I don't think HuGo is still looking for that kind of project. At one point, you have to stop gambling. We are entering that period.

Those are never disponible, unless they are underachieving or have an history of big injuries. We just did it 3 times with Monahan, Dach and Newhook. What's the end game? They are not with the team anymore or they are not 2C.

The Cozens and Zegras of this world are in the same category and I don't think HuGo is still looking for that kind of project. At one point, you have to stop gambling. We are entering that period.

Hum, with Monahan you got two first round picks, Dach seems like a 13th overall lost, and Newhooks is pretty much worth what you paid for.

It's only 3 occurences. Washington did it successfully last summer, acquiring at very low cost (close to nothing) their 2 first C. It's not always working, but it's a hell of a great avenue if you do it properly.

Cozen is for me a prime candidate, one we will regret not acquiring.

Acquiring Horvat is plain bad. You don't get a C on the wrong side of the thirties with a long term contract at this point of a rebuilt.

 

[Benstheman]

I understand that people wants a bonafide 2C, but the truth is they are either not available or comes with Small negatives. I see a good fit for Horvat (NYI straps in cash, rumor to extend Nelson, no future), but other than him, it’s a bunch of stop gap on 2C and it’s ok like that. Would be great to draft a 2C and bring a stop gap 2C or Horvat

Yep, we already have Hage who is a candidate for the 2C spot and most probably a center we will draft this summer.

 

[TheArch]

As a side note, it's the first year Dvorak is injury free, and it shows.

 

[Benstheman]

Hum, with Monahan you got two first round picks, Dach seems like a 13th overall lost, and Newhooks is pretty much worth what you paid for.

It's only 3 occurences. Washington did it successfully last summer, acquiring at very low cost (close to nothing) their 2 first C. It's not always working, but it's a hell of a great avenue if you do it properly.

Cozen is for me a prime candidate, one we will regret not acquiring.

Acquiring Horvat is plain bad. You don't get a C on the wrong side of the thirties with a long term contract at this point of a rebuilt.

The point is, we still have no 2C after we tried with 3 reclamation projects, no matter what we paid or what value we got back. It worked for Washington but it was still a risk. Why risk it a 4th time if you have the ammo to get 1 sure thing?

And I hate to break it to you like that but rebuild is over. Habs won't draft top 5 maybe even top 10 anymore. Now we are in a spot where we need to develop our young players in the best environment possible.

 

[TheArch]

Yep, we already have Hage who is a candidate for the 2C spot and most probably a center we will draft this summer.

Withtout a top 7-8 picks, we won't draft a 2C. And Hage is several years from being a NHL C. He's bad defensively and lack engagement. He's playing NCAA next year for sure, and I would not be surprised if he plays there the year after also (or AHL). He is most likely 2 years from playing in the NHL, and chances are huge that he will be a winger.

 

[Benstheman]

As a side note, it's the first year Dvorak is injury free, and it shows.

Yep I would have no problem at all resigning to a 2 X 2M$ contract as a 4th line C if we lose Evans.

Withtout a top 7-8 picks, we won't draft a 2C. And Hage is several years from being a NHL C. He's bad defensively and lack engagement. He's playing NCAA next year for sure, and I would not be surprised if he plays there the year after also (or AHL). He is most likely 2 years from playing in the NHL, and chances are huge that he will be a winger.

He is not bad defensively at all. And yes he is 2 years away.

 

[Rapala]

Such a tightrope to walk.. Evans/Armia are on expiring deals so those are 'buyer' players for sure, but buyers aren't going to likely want to give up any sort of player that is going to help them now.

The pool will be limited, especially if they are packaged together and especially considering the type of deal we want to make.

While there are a few advocates for standing pat I hate the idea.
The problem is not all the sellers have declared yet and the only hockey trade to be made is obviously with a seller.

I'm leaning towards a 2-3 year solution for now as we hope one of our kids can grow into the role.
Logic says the best long term deal will be found over time and not forced.

 

[vokiel]

As a side note, it's the first year Dvorak is injury free, and it shows.

And we'll be stuck with him until the end of the season. That's exactly the kind of contract we should be working hard to offload.

 

[WeThreeKings]

And we'll be stuck with him until the end of the season. That's exactly the kind of contract we should be working hard to offload.

Why? it expires.. and if you offload it, you have to bring up someone from Laval. It's gonna be hard enough to trade Evans and Armia and not majorly disrupt Laval.

Offloading an expiring Dvorak where his value is marginal at best, isn't a necessary move at this point.

 

[salbutera]

Uncle Lou is not trading Horvat, NYI are not in sell mode…

And we'll be stuck with him until the end of the season. That's exactly the kind of contract we should be working hard to offload.

For what a 3rd or 4th round pick when the Habs are loaded w picks?

 

[TheArch]

Yep I would have no problem at all resigning to a 2 X 2M$ contract as a 4th line C if we lose Evans.


He is not bad defensively at all. And yes he is 2 years away.

You are right, bad was too strong of a word. He's learning to play against older guys, he's progressing, but defensive is still an area he needs to improve a lot if he wants a shot at being a NHL C. Exciting prospect in any cases.

 

[vokiel]

Why? it expires.. and if you offload it, you have to bring up someone from Laval. It's gonna be hard enough to trade Evans and Armia and not majorly disrupt Laval.

Offloading an expiring Dvorak where his value is marginal at best, isn't a necessary move at this point.

Offloading by letting it expire is fine, but I'd rather offload it for AHLers and bring up our prospects. The stretch is good for them.

 

[LaP]

Uncle Lou is not trading Horvat, NYI are not in sell mode…


For what a 3rd or 4th round pick when the Habs are loaded w picks?

It's such a weird argument to make. It would be like someone keeping a depreciating stock still worth something because he has enough stocks ... Picks can always be traded.