HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #89: 2024-2025 season part II

[Habs Halifax]

Yes because they are 28 and 29. If they would be 22-23 no they would not be. Anf if they were 22-23 by the time they would be 28-29 those guys would be way too old. That's my point don'T spend assets on guys who will be too old when Suzuki, Caufield, Guhle, Hutson and Demidov will be ready and make no mistake they wont be before at least 2-3 more years. For now go find cheap vets to help them. If you can land a top player do it if not stand pat.

Hyman is signed until age 36
RNH is singed until age 36
Ekholm is signed until age 36

When Horvat is 36, Suzuk is 32. It's only a 4 year age difference.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Weekes tweeted a picture of Buffalo. And when he usually does that, it means the team from that city is either going to trade someone or will acquire someone.

Apparently, there have been rumors saying Flames are interested in Cozens. It would make sense as they want to add youth at center since Kadri is 34 and Backlund is 35. They acquired 25-year old Frost from Philly. It would make sense to acquire soon-to-be 24-year old Cozens.

 

[LaP]

OK, sit back and waste prime years of Suzuki on a value contract then. Just like we did with Price. See where that goes.

Horvat is not much different than the Oilers having Ekholm, RNH, and Hyman. Horvat is probably not available but we all get the point here. We need to add a warrior at 2C. Sooner rather than later

Imagine if the Kings called us and offered Dubois for Matheson straight up and we said no? I have no doubt that the Habs engaged offers for Dubois and I would love to know what they were.

Suzuki is 25. He is entering his prime. In 3 years he'll be in the middle of it. He's also not the most important piece of this rebuild. If he remains one of our 2 best players the rebuild will be a failure. The focus should be the younger guys. I like Nick be he always was going to be a 28-29 years old vet once the team was going to be ready to win.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Suzuki is 25. He is entering his prime. In 3 years he'll be in the middle of it. He's also not the most important piece of this rebuild. If he remains one of our 2 best players the rebuild will be a failure. The focus should be the younger guys. I like Nick be he always was going to be a 28-29 years old vet once the team was going to be ready to win.

So your rebuild extends past Suzuki? We are stuck in the middle of the pack for 5 years?

 

[LaP]

Hyman is signed until age 36
RNH is singed until age 36
Ekholm is signed until age 36

When Horvat is 36, Suzuk is 32. It's only a 4 year age difference.

Which is not a problem because for Edmonton it's now or never. The clock is ticking for them. Demidov is just 19 ... Slaf and Hutson 20 we are not even remotely close to that.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Which is not a problem because for Edmonton it's now or never. The clock is ticking for them. Demidov is just 19 ... Slaf and Hutson 20 we are not even remotely close to that.

Well, we don't have to make that move right this min but I can assure you we will consider adding a guy from those 30-36 years. We can't wait to see how long it takes Hage. This is an opportunity based solution. The opportunity needs to present itself. Something we can't see today

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

"[Arpon] Basu has floated the idea of trading Armia and Evans as a 'package.' The other team would add the league's best penalty kill duo and a ready-made fourth line with established chemistry. That could fetch a huge haul in return. Not a bad idea."

I literally said that the other night in the GDT

Arpon's just reading HF again

 

[LaP]

Weekes tweeted a picture of Buffalo. And when he usually does that, it means the team from that city is either going to trade someone or will acquire someone.

Apparently, there have been rumors saying Flames are interested in Cozens. It would make sense as they want to add youth at center since Kadri is 34 and Backlund is 35. They acquired 25-year old Frost from Philly. It would make sense to acquire soon-to-be 24-year old Cozens.

Was the photo taken at 4 AM?

Well, we don't have to make that move right this min but I can assure you we will consider adding a guy from those 30-36 years. We can't wait to see how long it takes Hage. This is an opportunity based solution. The opportunity needs to present itself. Something we can't see today

I think KH will target someone 27-28 like Carrier. Someone who will be in his low 30ies once the team is ready.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Was the photo taken at 4 AM?


I think KH will target someone 27-28 like Carrier. Someone who will be in his low 30ies once the team is ready.

Carrier was a good move but like Dach, we can't follow it up with similar moves (Newhook). There is a massive hole at 2C. That will require someone better than a Carrier type move.

 

[LaP]

Carrier was a good move but like Dach, we can't follow it up with similar moves (Newhook). There is a massive hole at 2C. That will require someone better than a Carrier type move.

When i said like Carrier i meant the age not the skills

 

[Habs Halifax]

When i said like Carrier i meant the age not the skills

All good. This was a healthy debate. Lets bookmark this for whenever we make a big move.

 

[themilosh]

So your rebuild extends past Suzuki? We are stuck in the middle of the pack for 5 years?

ofcourse. You think a stanley cup team is winning with Suzuki as the Centre piece? He's a great player to have no doubt, but he's far from a "game changer" - he'd be the PERFECT 2C to win a SC, and with the cap going up - that $7.8/yr is going to make it easy to ADD (starting this summer) - but we cant be throwing $5M at guys like Evans.

 

[Scriptor]

These are good questions. I just don't think we are filling both holes that quickly. I think a 2C is easier to get than a top 4RD. Both are not easy but one has a bit more options.

We got Hage and Reinbacher/Mailloux. The biggest dilemma here is what are we doing in the meantime because it's another 2+ years before these young pieces are ready for prime time (18-20+ min's per game). I really don't think we should waste Suzuki prime years on a value contract. We did that with Price

The reality is one of our LD's will have to play RD. That is not a perfect solution but it's not a horrible one either. If we can assemble a strong 3 forward lines, that is going to help us sustain pressure in the offensive zone. If we have 3 centers like Suzuki, Horvat, and Evans, that is going to help us win a lot of faceoffs and win the critical puck possession area of the game. Loosing the faceoff in our own zone is how the Leafs scored 7 unanswered goals. We gave them puck possession and we were forced to scramble.

Look at the value the Kings are getting with Kopitar and Danault. Their D core is not that impressive but they are still a very good defensive team overall. Constantly in the top 5 or top 10 in the NHL. That has a lot to do with puck possession and those two great 2 way centers.

What's better or more difficult for you?
* One of the LD's playing RD
vs
* No real 2C options on our current roster.

I hope that we are on the same page and that we realize that we need TWO top-4 RHDs, of which Reinbacher might become one, not ONE RHD while Reinbacher develops into one.

Carrier can play that role short term as a stop gap, or in case of injuries in the future when we have TWO legitimate top-4 RHDs -- with much less impact than we need from our top-4 RHDs when we hope to become contenders -- but he is not expected to be ONE of the TWO top-4 RHDs that we need.

If we are satisfied with Carrier as a top-4 RHD, like if we were satisfied with Dach as a top-6 C playing the way he currently is playing, we will never come close to becoming a contender again.

Of our needs at d or C, which is harder to get or satisfy?

Top-6 C, IMO.

With an elite offensive D like Hutson, we can get by with a top-4 RHD pairing partner for the diminutive LHD that is a more defensive RHD with size and mobility, than an all-around RHD that could be a top-2 on a D-Corps.

A pairing of Guhle-Reinbacher, IMO, would be a fine shutdown pairing to play against the opponents' best players, while the more defensive RHD (that is nonetheless phsysical and mobile at the same time) could help shelter that pairing with Hutson when the opponent has the final line change and has them facing this best players.

Getting a top-end 2C will have more value in helping with the development and the progression of the youngsters closest to their projected ceilings.

If we can address that need immediately, all the better, but as with the case of adding top-4 RHD, availability doesn't always match the exact moment when your need is present.

That's why you don't just grab a better C than what you currently have -- all at a high cost -- just because there is nothing better out there and because you need a better C than what you currently have.

Next year, there might be one available closer to the C you are genuinely looking to get.

Of course, if you can get one that is just a stop gap and comes at a more affordable price, you should acquire that player. That's why, elsewhere, I wondered if acquiring the 34-yr-old Duchene who is producing at a near a PPG pace, is +10 and will become an UFA isn't a good idea?

He's ending a 1-yr deal for 3M. Would a 2-yr deal as a stop gap, for up to 6M not be a good idea?

 

[Habs Halifax]

I literally said that the other night in the GDT

Arpon's just reading HF again

I have this feeling that Gorton/Hughes are ready to extend Evans but are playing the waiting game. You never know how aggressive contenders will get and offering both Evans and Armia might just get us something very impressive. Gorton/Hughes are very smart to delay any Evans extension for after the TDL.

I would hate to see Evans go because that puts a lot more pressure on Suzuki but that all depends on what we get back.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I hope that we are on the same page and that we realize that we need TWO top-4 RHDs, of which Reinbacher might become one, not ONE RHD while Reinbacher develops into one.

Carrier can play that role short term as a stop gap, or in case of injuries in the future when we have TWO legitimate top-4 RHDs -- with much less impact than we need from our top-4 RHDs when we hope to become contenders -- but he is not expected to be ONE of the TWO top-4 RHDs that we need.

If we are satisfied with Carrier as a top-4 RHD, like if we were satisfied with Dach as a top-6 C playing the way he currently is playing, we will never come close to becoming a contender again.

Of our needs at d or C, which is harder to get or satisfy?

Top-6 C, IMO.

With an elite offensive D like Hutson, we can get by with a top-4 RHD pairing partner for the diminutive LHD that is a more defensive RHD with size and mobility, than an all-around RHD that could be a top-2 on a D-Corps.

A pairing of Guhle-Reinbacher, IMO, would be a fine shutdown pairing to play against the opponents' best players, while the more defensive RHD (that is nonetheless phsysical and mobile at the same time) could help shelter that pairing with Hutson when the opponent has the final line change and has them facing this best players.

Getting a top-end 2C will have more value in helping with the development and the progression of the youngsters closest to their projected ceilings.

If we can address that need immediately, all the better, but as with the case of adding top-4 RHD, availability doesn't always match the exact moment when your need is present.

That's why you don't just grab a better C than what you currently have -- all at a high cost -- just because there is nothing better out there and because you need a better C than what you currently have.

Next year, there might be one available closer to the C you are genuinely looking to get.

Of course, if you can get one that is just a stop gap and comes at a more affordable price, you should acquire that player. That's why, elsewhere, I wondered if acquiring the 34-yr-old Duchene who is producing at a near a PPG pace, is +10 and will become an UFA isn't a good idea?

He's ending a 1-yr deal for 3M. Would a 2-yr deal as a stop gap, for up to 6M not be a good idea?

Risks/Rewards are a big factor. Are we going to stay middle of the pack like the Wings or are we going to rocket up. I think our herd will be very mad if we look back in 5 years and we are still middle of the pack and we were too afraid to make a move.

We have been down this road before with Price in his prime on a value contract. At that stage, we didn't have the futures to make moves. We do now. Not like we need to make a move ASAP but the tipping point is soon IMO.

Do not waste Suzuki prime and value contract years and also Demidov's ELC years. We can afford to trade some futures and still focus on drafting/developing. I believe we can improve the team now and not dig into our future too much.

 

[HuGort]

He might not be a perfect fit age wise, but Horval would be a pretty awesome 2C for us . He has the type of game that should age pretty well a la Suzuki IMO, he's very smart and well rounded. Durable too, which is key in building a roster, as we've found out .The contract isn't ideal, but the cap is going to be cray-cray in the next 3 years anyway, we're going to have to bite that bullet on a veteran at some point.

Teams have underachieved where he's been though

 

[HuGort]

Reinbacher has yet to play a game this year, he's most likely not ready for contender top4 duties.

Same with Matheson, he's worked fine but he's not who I'd want with Guhle in a contending context.

Top4 RD has just as many questions marks as 2C (I'd even argue more), but it's also a more impactful position(and you have two of them).

Just shooting names regardless of availability, but a Cernak or Andersson make us a better team than Horvat.

Matheson for Hronek with Raty as throw in I was thinking other day. Hronek 27 is veteran right shot plays 25 minutes. Raty will make good bottom 6 center. He'd good on faceoffs, size, defensively, point a game in AHL. On ELC, He should be ready to step in. Allows trade of Evans. We get a first for Evans, saved 3m in caproom

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

We can keep the puck in the O zone if we can't move it out of our Dzone first quickly. In recent game, the D group hasn't been able to stop incoming attack and retrive the puck quickly to back the other way. the number of time they "eat" the puck on the wall, creating 1 on 1 battle in insane. Most of these are due to mismanaging the puck when they have it. Matheson is getting real good at that.... bad pass, puck jump over a stick. no open option and bad flip center ice. Can't generate offense if you dont exit cleanly on a regular basis.

Now, dont get me wrong, I agree that we need a 2c, and even if you get a top 4 RD, you are still in trouble with Dach/Laine duo.

To be honest, if I was in KH position, I would try to trade Matheson+ for a 2c. and Mailloux+ for a top 4RD. Resign Evans, trade Savard, Dvorak and armia

CC-Suzuki-Slaf
Dach - trade - Demidov
Laine - Newhook - Heineman
Kapanen - Evans - Anderson.

Guhle - trade
Hutson - Reinbacker
Xhakaj - Carrier

Dach on the second line over Laine should be a crime.

 

[yianik]

In off season would Malkin be answer for 2C? He be 39, one season left around 50 points. Buys time for Beck, Kapanen, Hage and probably our first pick this draft to mature. He's Russian put him on line with Demidov. We give up a young player like Newhook.

Duchene if he hits free agency is an option.

 

[Scriptor]

I'm all for a veteran Center if it's the right fit. I'm saying I don't know if Horvat is that piece. I'm not an avid Islanders watcher.

Horvat's contract is a good one since it will play (starting next year) from ages 30 through 35, inclusively, over a 6-yr span.

It's good for Horvat to be part of a future Cup window as Suzukin and some others are right in their prime years.

SCOUTING REPORT
Has grown into a shutdown center capable of making big contributions even when he is not generating a lot of offense. In addition, he has gotten much better at driving play--even when starting shifts in the defensive zone. He skates well and is among the NHL's best face-off men, meaning his team ends up with the puck more often than not. Is also a team leader who can play a lot of minutes at a high level.

Long Range Potential: Quality two-way center and leader.

As you can see from this Hockey News scouting report (Sports Forecaster nowadays), this 60-70 point C has developed into a shutdown C thatbskates well and can be tasked to cover the opponents' better players even on nights when hen is not producing offensively himself.

Horvat, as one of the league's best F/O Cs for our top-6 that can eat a lot of difficult minutes, while Beck comes up as a pivot who is also good in the F/O circle, and Suzuki continues to develop into a 50%+ F/O C (last two seasons) that is one of the premiere shutdown Cs in the league, we would have an excellent shutdown C-line that can also generate points!

Honestly, if the ask for Horvat is really Dach, a first (the worst of Montreal's and Calgary's) and Roy, Im can't imagine how Hughes could pass up on this?

6 years of certainty at 2C over Dach, with cost certainty (contract already signed) and without sacrificing from our D position is hard to pass by. Pretty certain that Horvat would make us quickly forget Dach, even if he and Roy progressed into much better forwards than they currently are.

We can likely get another 1st rounder (although likely later in the round) for Evans and still make a trade that could land us the missing top-4, RHD that we are searching for to help lock in a solid core of players;

Suzuki, Horvat, Beck, Caufield, Demidov, Laine, Slafkovsky, Heineman, Anderson, Hage...

Hutson, Guhle, Matheson, Xhekaj, acquired top-4 RHD, Reinbacher, Carrier...

Dobes, Montembeault, Fowler...

I'd be very happy with a 2nd line of Demidov - Horvat - Laine, with both Horvat and Demidov adding defensive awareness to the line, while Caufield - Suzuki - Slafkovsky is a proven commodity, especially with the way Caufield has learnt to drive the play this season, becoming closer to a PPG player...

At some point, depending on what happens at the 2025 draft, we could end up with a 3rd line of Bear Hage - Heineman, which, Imo, wouldn't be too shabby at all as a secondary scoring line.

beck could be transformed into a true shutdown, 4th line C who could provide complementary scoring.

 

[tazsub3]

Was the photo taken at 4 AM?


I think KH will target someone 27-28 like Carrier. Someone who will be in his low 30ies once the team is ready.

Bro it’s Buffalo and the bills lost …. So might have been taken at 6pm !

 

[HuGort]

Duchene if he hits free agency is an option.

Yup, a veteran#2 center also.

 

[sampollock]

UFA will not fix this team needing:
2nd line Centre
or
RD

face it. draft them or KH uses he assets to get them
bottom line

 

[vokiel]

Weekes tweeted a picture of Buffalo. And when he usually does that, it means the team from that city is either going to trade someone or will acquire someone.

Apparently, there have been rumors saying Flames are interested in Cozens. It would make sense as they want to add youth at center since Kadri is 34 and Backlund is 35. They acquired 25-year old Frost from Philly. It would make sense to acquire soon-to-be 24-year old Cozens.

I think the entire team has been traded to Houston for a fistful of cash.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

UFA will not fix this team needing:
2nd line Centre
or
RD

face it. draft them or KH uses he assets to get them
bottom line

...what about Cozens??...fits the skill level, fits the age...Fluffabo might bite on both 1sts and some money pieces to even it out...