HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #89: 2024-2025 season part II

[Pompeius Magnus]

He might not be a perfect fit age wise, but Horval would be a pretty awesome 2C for us . He has the type of game that should age pretty well a la Suzuki IMO, he's very smart and well rounded. Durable too, which is key in building a roster, as we've found out .The contract isn't ideal, but the cap is going to be cray-cray in the next 3 years anyway, we're going to have to bite that bullet on a veteran at some point.

 

[Deebs]

For me, it's a deeper context than just points. I have not watched Horvat enough to evaluate his skating. That's where players decline fast in their 30's. You look at Duchene and he's still very effective at age 34 today... because of his skating. Someone like Gallagher fell fast because his skating was average at best in his 20's.

Horvat is excellent on faceoffs. How would you grade his skating today at age 30? Is he getting smothered or is he driving play still? I am looking for someone who can play the 2 way game behind Suzuki and take some of the faceoff load in defensive zone draws. We missed on getting Dubois and Horvat may be a good solution for us. Like I said, I'm not afraid of the 30-36 contract if we feel Horvat's skating is stable. I would not care one bit if he puts up 50 pts or 70 pts. It's what he does in the trenches that matters the most.

PLD is doing nothing he hasn't done before, so no, we didn't miss on him especially given how he's been a bitch in 3 different cities.

I've always liked Horvat but not sure he fits now given his contract/age.

 

[Habs Halifax]

68 points was his ceiling. He is pacing around that right now. He costs 8.5 million. Suzuki is near PPG pace. Two different players.

I like Horvat...don't get me wrong. But if we catch him as he declines to a 55-60 point centre and by age 33-36 another 5 point drop to 50-55 points....then I say no thanks. Dach could still reach and eclipse those totals once Demidov is stapled to his side.

Suzuki is on a value contract and if we had to sign him today, we are talking $9M-$10M range or more. We can't compare it to one of the best contracts in the NHL.

Like Dubois, I don't really care about 55 pts or 60 pts or 70 pts. I am looking at what the player provides in the trenches. We need warriors who win puck battles along the walls and in front of the net. Habs ability to hold the puck in the offensive zone is in question big time. We are getting outshot by a wide margin and this is largely due to our inability to keep the puck in the offensive zone. What's happening is we are in their zone but it's out of their zone quickly and in our zone. Our D is still a bit young and on the soft side IMO so it's in our end way too much. It's putting too much pressure on our goalie and D and it feeds into the other teams confidence/momentum. It's a big factor in the NHL.

We have enough offense IMO. We need a 2 way stud at 2C. That is not Dach. Dach fits better with Evans on the 3rd line. We are going to wear out Suzuki

Are we waiting for Hage and Reinbacher/Mailloux to fill our holes? I think this is a decent plan but what are we doing in the meantime? Wasting value contract years to Suzuki and Caufield. Next season or this summer might be the tipping point where we consider bringing in one of those 30-36 year contracts.

 

[Treb]

For me, it's a deeper context than just points. I have not watched Horvat enough to evaluate his skating. That's where players decline fast in their 30's. You look at Duchene and he's still very effective at age 34 today... because of his skating. Someone like Gallagher fell fast because his skating was average at best in his 20's.

Horvat is excellent on faceoffs. How would you grade his skating today at age 30? Is he getting smothered or is he driving play still? I am looking for someone who can play the 2 way game behind Suzuki and take some of the faceoff load in defensive zone draws. We missed on getting Dubois and Horvat may be a good solution for us. Like I said, I'm not afraid of the 30-36 contract if we feel Horvat's skating is stable. I would not care one bit if he puts up 50 pts or 70 pts. It's what he does in the trenches that matters the most.

I don't think Horvat will fall off a cliff, but I do think the combination of Cap+asset cost makes him a less attractive target.

If we spend those assets and cap on him, what's left for our biggest hole that is top4 RD?

He might not be a perfect fit age wise, but Horval would be a pretty awesome 2C for us . He has the type of game that should age pretty well a la Suzuki IMO, he's very smart and well rounded. The contract isn't ideal, but the cap is going to be cray-cray in the next 3 years anyway, we're going to have to bite that bullet on a veteran at some point.

I like the idea of a Horvat-like C, I just think 8.5M and the likely assets cost aren't worth it. I still think RD is where we should overpay if we overpay somewhere.

 

[sampollock]

2025 Draft
2 1st rounders
2 2nd rounders
3 3rd rounders

KH has power to make a deal. will he? I guess we see
but this is some bargaining power here.

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

I don't think Horvat will fall off a cliff, but I do think the combination of Cap+asset cost makes him a less attractive target.

If we spend those assets and cap on him, what's left for our biggest hole that is top4 RD?



I like the idea of a Horvat-like C, I just think 8.5M and the likely assets cost aren't worth it. I still think RD is where we should overpay if we overpay somewhere.

Fair enough. For me, adding a good 2C is more important, in order to maximise our young wingers in the next few years. I want to get Caufield, Slafkovsky and Demidov to be as good as they can possibly be.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I don't think Horvat will fall off a cliff, but I do think the combination of Cap+asset cost makes him a less attractive target.

If we spend those assets and cap on him, what's left for our biggest hole that is top4 RD?



I like the idea of a Horvat-like C, I just think 8.5M and the likely assets cost aren't worth it. I still think RD is where we should overpay if we overpay somewhere.

These are good questions. I just don't think we are filling both holes that quickly. I think a 2C is easier to get than a top 4RD. Both are not easy but one has a bit more options.

We got Hage and Reinbacher/Mailloux. The biggest dilemma here is what are we doing in the meantime because it's another 2+ years before these young pieces are ready for prime time (18-20+ min's per game). I really don't think we should waste Suzuki prime years on a value contract. We did that with Price

The reality is one of our LD's will have to play RD. That is not a perfect solution but it's not a horrible one either. If we can assemble a strong 3 forward lines, that is going to help us sustain pressure in the offensive zone. If we have 3 centers like Suzuki, Horvat, and Evans, that is going to help us win a lot of faceoffs and win the critical puck possession area of the game. Loosing the faceoff in our own zone is how the Leafs scored 7 unanswered goals. We gave them puck possession and we were forced to scramble.

Look at the value the Kings are getting with Kopitar and Danault. Their D core is not that impressive but they are still a very good defensive team overall. Constantly in the top 5 or top 10 in the NHL. That has a lot to do with puck possession and those two great 2 way centers.

What's better or more difficult for you?
* One of the LD's playing RD
vs
* No real 2C options on our current roster.

 

[kris]

Wouldn't be surprised to see Armia traded before fourth nations.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Wouldn't be surprised to see Armia traded before fourth nations.

I'd be surprised; they can't even find someone they want to play over Pezzetta.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Fair enough. For me, adding a good 2C is more important, in order to maximise our young wingers in the next few years. I want to get Caufield, Slafkovsky and Demidov to be as good as they can possibly be.

Me as well. The top 4RD is almost impossible to get. I think we really need to consider one of our LD's playing RD and we need to bring in a 2 way center stud. Dubois or Horvat types. Don't evaluate them on their points. Evaluate them on what they provide in the trenches and how they make their linemates better. There is enough offense on this roster to win games. We need more warriors.

Imagine how strong we would be up the middle with Suzuki, Horvat, and Evans. Lots of faceoff wins in critical areas of the game and 3 centers who can play at both ends very well. Look at the value the Kings are getting with Kopitar and Danault alone. Then go look at their D core? Somehow they are still a top 5 or top 10 defensive team year after year.

The only concern I would have with Horvat is his skating. I have not watched him close enough to know or have confidence his skating will be stable in his 30+ years.

Imagine adding a top 4RD but we have a 2C hole for 5+ years. Our D gets the puck out but the 2C makes blunders and the puck is right back in our own end.

 

[le_sean]

I like the idea by Basu of trading Evans and Armia as a package to a team. One of the better PK duos out there. You know a contender would love to acquire that depth and impact.

The Oilers and Knights have pretty bad PKs. The Knights don’t have anything to trade though.

Jets are a team that is middle of the pack on the PK, but I see their 4th line really is awful so that would be a great upgrade. Of course they are familiar with Armia, however Evans playing with Scheifele might not be the best.

 

[Egresch]

The only concern I would have with Horvat is his skating. I have not watched him close enough to know or have confidence his skating will be stable in his 30+ years.

Horvat is better skater than Suzuki, overall he plays at higher pace. Skating distance is the same.

NHL EDGE Puck and Player Tracking Statistics - Comparisons

Compare National Hockey League players, goalies and teams with NHL EDGE Puck and Player Tracking statistics including skating speed, skating distance, shot speed, shot and save location, and zone time for National Hockey League players and teams.

edge.nhl.com

 

[Habs Halifax]

Horvat is better skater than Suzuki, overall he plays at higher pace. Skating distance is the same.

NHL EDGE Puck and Player Tracking Statistics - Comparisons

Compare National Hockey League players, goalies and teams with NHL EDGE Puck and Player Tracking statistics including skating speed, skating distance, shot speed, shot and save location, and zone time for National Hockey League players and teams.

edge.nhl.com

Fun to talk about it but not even sure what the Islanders would ask for. Is Dach and one of our 1st rounders enough? What are the Islanders after? A retool or a rebuild?

I can see both the concerns and the rewards with someone like Horvat in our mix. If the expert skating analyst saying his skating is very sound, I'm down for Dach, 1st, and a prospect. At this stage, I prefer to keep both Reinbacher and Mailloux and use Beck or Roy as the prospect instead.

J Roy with P Roy?

 

[Treb]

These are good questions. I just don't think we are filling both holes that quickly. I think a 2C is easier to get than a top 4RD. Both are not easy but one has a bit more options.

We got Hage and Reinbacher/Mailloux. The biggest dilemma here is what are we doing in the meantime because it's another 2+ years before these young pieces are ready for prime time (18-20+ min's per game). I really don't think we should waste Suzuki prime years on a value contract. We did that with Price

The reality is one of our LD's will have to play RD. That is not a perfect solution but it's not a horrible one either. If we can assemble a strong 3 forward lines, that is going to help us sustain pressure in the offensive zone. If we have 3 centers like Suzuki, Horvat, and Evans, that is going to help us win a lot of faceoffs and win the critical puck possession area of the game. Loosing the faceoff in our own zone is how the Leafs scored 7 unanswered goals. We gave them puck possession and we were forced to scramble.

Look at the value the Kings are getting with Kopitar and Danault. Their D core is not that impressive but they are still a very good defensive team overall. Constantly in the top 5 or top 10 in the NHL. That has a lot to do with puck possession and those two great 2 way centers.

What's better or more difficult for you?
* One of the LD's playing RD
vs
* No real 2C options on our current roster.

It's not only Matheson playing RD, it's also Carrier in a top4 spot. Ideally Matheson would be switched for a RD AND Carrier would drop down to the 3rd pair.

If the Habs are able to keep Evans, the need for a 2C that is great defensively diminish greatly as you would have Suzuki, Evans and Beck for defensive missions.

I think upgrading on Carrier/Matheson would have a bigger impact than upgrading Dach. Of course, this is assuming the same level of upgrade.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

I'd be surprised; they can't even find someone they want to play over Pezzetta.

Hoping Beck plays tonight.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

I wonder if Tampa will kick the tires on Savard considering he played really well for them when they won the Cup and they could get him for much cheaper now

A fine #6 option who is already familiar with the team and players

 

[Habs Halifax]

It's not only Matheson playing RD, it's also Carrier in a top4 spot. Ideally Matheson would be switched for a RD AND Carrier would drop down to the 3rd pair.

If the Habs are able to keep Evans, the need for a 2C that is great defensively diminish greatly as you would have Suzuki, Evans and Beck for defensive missions.

I think upgrading on Carrier/Matheson would have a bigger impact than upgrading Dach. Of course, this is assuming the same level of upgrade.

Guhle / Matheson
Hutson / Reinbacher
Xhekaj / Carrier

I like Carrier with Xhekaj but we would need to see more sample size. Guhle and Matheson worked fine before. Can Reinbacher be the right guy for Hutson? This would be a pairing that needs some sheltering and lots of offensive zone draws.

Then we wonder about both Engstrom and Mailloux. I believe Enstrom can play both sides as well but way too early to consider that. I still like Mailloux very much but he needs to mature in the D zone.

What about BK from Russia? When does his KHL contract expire? I think our options in our D core is there but it's more of a maturity problem than an ability problem. With 2C, we have Hage and Dach and that is basically it. Hage is years away from being able to take a 2C load.

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

I like the idea by Basu of trading Evans and Armia as a package to a team. One of the better PK duos out there. You know a contender would love to acquire that depth and impact.

The Oilers and Knights have pretty bad PKs. The Knights don’t have anything to trade though.

Jets are a team that is middle of the pack on the PK, but I see their 4th line really is awful so that would be a great upgrade. Of course they are familiar with Armia, however Evans playing with Scheifele might not be the best.

Would make lots of sense for Minnesota, their PK is 70% and they have plugs like Shore and Lauko playing on their 4th line. Can put someone like Foligno or Trenin on that line in the playoffs and they'd be very hard to play against.

Only issue is Minnesota traded their first this year so who knows if they'd trade their 2026 first.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

Also for reference - Savard got traded to Tampa for a 1st + 3rd at the 2021 deadline after putting up 1 goal + 5 assists in 40 games with a -19 rating.

 

[le_sean]

Bo Horvat would be worth it alone for the faceoffs. While I find faceoffs a bit overrated, I’m sick of seeing Dvorak take every important offensive zone faceoff and when winning it, he stays on the ice and does nothing. At least Horvat is good at hockey.

Would make lots of sense for Minnesota, their PK is 70% and they have plugs like Shore and Lauko playing on their 4th line. Can put someone like Foligno or Trenin on that line in the playoffs and they'd be very hard to play against.

Only issue is Minnesota traded their first this year so who knows if they'd trade their 2026 first.

I didn’t even realize it when I checked team stats, they are 31st. That’s awful. Absolutely would make a lot of sense for them. They have a great prospect pool too.

 

[Habs Halifax]

PLD is doing nothing he hasn't done before, so no, we didn't miss on him especially given how he's been a bitch in 3 different cities.

I've always liked Horvat but not sure he fits now given his contract/age.

We have to stop turning down 30-36 contracts like Horvat. If we want to contend, we need to consider our roster will have a stud from 30-36 and older than Suzuki. Are we going to let Suzuki walk when he is 30 and needs a new contract? I think not

If Horvat's skating report is solid and the Islanders like a Dach, 1st, and Roy offer, make it happen. A $8.5M contract is the old $6.5M contract moving forward. It fits more than it don't fit.

I'm a Dubois fan. Lets set him aside in terms of "he sucks" or "he is still a good player" arguments. The point here is we need a work horse at 2C. Someone with sound skating, can win battles, win faceoffs, and chip in 50-70 pts.

 

[Treb]

Guhle / Matheson
Hutson / Reinbacher
Xhekaj / Carrier

I like Carrier with Xhekaj but we would need to see more sample size. Guhle and Matheson worked fine before. Can Reinbacher be the right guy for Hutson? This would be a pairing that needs some sheltering and lots of offensive zone draws.

Then we wonder about both Engstrom and Mailloux. I believe Enstrom can play both sides as well but way too early to consider that. I still like Mailloux very much but he needs to mature in the D zone.

What about BK from Russia? When does his KHL contract expire? I think our options in our D core is there but it's more of a maturity problem than an ability problem. With 2C, we have Hage and Dach and that is basically it. Hage is years away from being able to take a 2C load.

Reinbacher has yet to play a game this year, he's most likely not ready for contender top4 duties.

Same with Matheson, he's worked fine but he's not who I'd want with Guhle in a contending context.

Top4 RD has just as many questions marks as 2C (I'd even argue more), but it's also a more impactful position(and you have two of them).

Just shooting names regardless of availability, but a Cernak or Andersson make us a better team than Horvat.

 

[Benstheman]

Is Landen Dupont a RHD?

 

[ReHabs]

Are we waiting for Hage and Reinbacher/Mailloux to fill our holes?

It's foolish borderline negligent to "wait for" sub-elite prospects to fill roster gaps. It's a perfect way to rush prospects, have them fail and wilt, and usher in a losing culture.

Prospects should push players out of chairs, they shouldn't be given a reserved chair right off the bat. Doing the latter means the roster is terrible and we're well past that point in our rebuild.

 

[Deebs]

We have to stop turning down 30-36 contracts like Horvat. If we want to contend, we need to consider our roster will have a stud from 30-36 and older than Suzuki. Are we going to let Suzuki walk when he is 30 and needs a new contract? I think not

If Horvat's skating report is solid and the Islanders like a Dach, 1st, and Roy offer, make it happen. A $8.5M contract is the old $6.5M contract moving forward. It fits more than it don't fit.

I'm all for a veteran Center if it's the right fit. I'm saying I don't know if Horvat is that piece. I'm not an avid Islanders watcher.