HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #89: 2024-2025 season part II

[Sorinth]

I think that Ehlers is a luxury that MTL should avoid indulging unless there is a sense that Laine wont stay. Loading up the top 6 looks fun, but to win, this team must address other area. With Caufleid, Newhook, Suzuki, Demidov, Gally... our group of forward remains small. Laine isn't physical despite his size. Replacing Dvorak and potentially Gally by bigger, stringer and faster bottom 6 guys should be a higher priority in the forward group.

Ehlers would for sure be a luxury, but I don't agree that it's one we should avoid. Capwise we can afford it, and honestly probably would have trouble spending the money otherwise.

Roster wise it allows us to build 3 true offensive lines which is very hard for opponents to defend against. Size maybe a concern, but it would be temporary, Ehlers probably means Newhook will move on, Gally is another who will be gone sooner rather then later. But one wrinkle would be if Ehlers not only wants to be on the team with Laine but also his line.

 

[sampollock]

Ehlers would for sure be a luxury, but I don't agree that it's one we should avoid. Capwise we can afford it, and honestly probably would have trouble spending the money otherwise.

Roster wise it allows us to build 3 true offensive lines which is very hard for opponents to defend against. Size maybe a concern, but it would be temporary, Ehlers probably means Newhook will move on, Gally is another who will be gone sooner rather then later. But one wrinkle would be if Ehlers not only wants to be on the team with Laine but also his line.

hurt all the time
that is a issue for this board

 

[Kosseca]

Ehlers would for sure be a luxury, but I don't agree that it's one we should avoid. Capwise we can afford it, and honestly probably would have trouble spending the money otherwise.

Roster wise it allows us to build 3 true offensive lines which is very hard for opponents to defend against. Size maybe a concern, but it would be temporary, Ehlers probably means Newhook will move on, Gally is another who will be gone sooner rather then later. But one wrinkle would be if Ehlers not only wants to be on the team with Laine but also his line.

I guess this is a preference in roster construction. I don't think we can debate that he's a good player and an upgrade on player like Newhook. That said, while we have cap space, I think that this would be better spent on one of two things: C and D.

 

[Sorinth]

hurt all the time
that is a issue for this board

This board has lots of issues, decisions shouldn't be made off a bi-polar message board. And for a guy whose hurt all the time he still managed 82 games last year.

 

[Sorinth]

I guess this is a preference in roster construction. I don't think we can debate that he's a good player and an upgrade on player like Newhook. That said, while we have cap space, I think that this would be better spent on one of two things: C and D.

Sure but that's easy to say and hard to actually put into practice. So sure I'd much rather spend the money on a top-pairing RD, but the problem isn't a question of having the cap space to do that, it's actually acquiring that type of player and the odds of doing so are very small.

So if the choice is sit on a ton of cap space hoping that one somehow becomes available, or to actually spend the money even if it's on a luxury player that we don't truly need but makes the team better, then I'd rather spend the money, make the team better, and if that top-pairing ever does become available then pay the price to clear up the capspace as needed.

 

[le_sean]

Coaching also has to do with it. One could look at Suzuki 2 years ago and argue the same thing. Roy/Lambert are not the cream of the crop

Maybe but I’ve seen Suzuki’s numbers just gradually improve every year. Seems to be a player that is simply getting better with more experience. Barzal looks to have two outlier years that are several seasons apart.

I don’t know, I’m always really underwhelmed when I watch him play. Skates well but holds on to the puck way too long and is soft with a muffin shot.

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

How?

I mean experience is good but it doesn't make you more skilled, You eventually grab this experience if it's not this year it's going to be next. What will help the Montreal canadien long term is anoher solid top 6 forward and another solid top 4 dman. If you think an extra pick can help you acquire that at the next draft either by moving up in the first round or trading bunch of picks and prospects for a top 6 / 4 in his prime then you do it.

The whole picks are useless we win now must keep everyone thing is stupid imo. Picks are never useless since they are non depreciating assets and if you have to improve your teams non depreciating assets hold lot of value. I'm curious to see what will KH approach be at the next deadline. Contrary to popular belief this is not a cup contending lineup yet and KH focus should still be to build a cup contending lineup.

I'm still mind blown that so many fans think it's a good idea to either lose players on the UFA market for nothing or resign depreciating assets in a situation where we have to improve the value of our assets. If it was me the only guy i would entertain resigning would be Evans. The other guys would be traded. If you need Armia, Dvorak and Savard to make the playoffs then your team is not there yet.

The VP/GM talked about this team being in the mix for a playoff spot - despite having a rough start, the team bought in and played their asses off to get themselves into the playoff race. Instead of letting the team continue to work towards that playoff spot that they worked hard for, it would be a slap in the face to the team to trade a respected veteran like Savard who's been part of the team's success when the team is finally going into the right direction.

Aside from Evans, we aren't talking about huge returns for guys like Savard/Armia that would move the needle on a trade to acquire a top 6 F or top 4 D. We could always use more picks, but right now we have a ton of picks, prospects and young players that could be moved in order to acquire a key player. Not to mention with the high amount of picks in recent years we've had, we will likely have to let a lot of prospects walk with the contract limits.

If the team keeps playing as it is, the expectations for next year will be to make the playoffs. In my opinion I just feel keeping our internal rentals and making a run for the playoffs would set the team up better next year instead of trading guys off for picks and likely falling out of this race.

 

[Kosseca]

Sure but that's easy to say and hard to actually put into practice. So sure I'd much rather spend the money on a top-pairing RD, but the problem isn't a question of having the cap space to do that, it's actually acquiring that type of player and the odds of doing so are very small.

So if the choice is sit on a ton of cap space hoping that one somehow becomes available, or to actually spend the money even if it's on a luxury player that we don't truly need but makes the team better, then I'd rather spend the money, make the team better, and if that top-pairing ever does become available then pay the price to clear up the capspace as needed.

I see your point and it's a valid one, but approach this a bit differently. Unused cap space is an asset. As proven to be useful with Monahan/Laine. There are always players that fall out of favor during the season (see Miller/EP40). Having cap space can help HuGo make a in season trade for that key missing piece.

But once you are there.... it's all about timing anyway. Would Ehlers even be available, would a top RD be suddenly available? feel like there is almost as much luck then planning that goes into this.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Ehlers would for sure be a luxury, but I don't agree that it's one we should avoid. Capwise we can afford it, and honestly probably would have trouble spending the money otherwise.

Roster wise it allows us to build 3 true offensive lines which is very hard for opponents to defend against. Size maybe a concern, but it would be temporary, Ehlers probably means Newhook will move on, Gally is another who will be gone sooner rather then later. But one wrinkle would be if Ehlers not only wants to be on the team with Laine but also his line.

Pretty darn close to how I see it as well. Adding Ehlers makes Newhook not required. I have a few comments or exercises for us to do to see how this looks...

1) What type of contract will Ehlers want? And is it connected to a Laine extension? What do both players get? Is $8M AAV fair for both players?

2) Add Ehlers and move Newhook for whatever we can get. This means we extend Evans right?

3) If we add Ehlers and Demidov next season, what are your top 3 lines? How does that look? Does it make sense? I do admit, I like the idea of adding Ehlers but I do have some challenges with creating our roster on paper.

Slaf / Suzuki / Caufield
Heineman / Demidov / Dach
Ehlers / Evans / Laine

Heineman / Suzuki / Caufield
Slaf / Dach / Demidov
Ehlers / Evans / Laine

Caufield / Suzuki / Demidov
Ehlers / Dach / Laine
Heineman / Evans / Slaf

 

[covfefe]

Maybe but I’ve seen Suzuki’s numbers just gradually improve every year. Seems to be a player that is simply getting better with more experience. Barzal looks to have two outlier years that are several seasons apart.

I don’t know, I’m always really underwhelmed when I watch him play. Skates well but holds on to the puck way too long and is soft with a muffin shot.

I think if you put Barzal next to Patrik Laine, considering what we already have, you're creating some very problematic matchups for the majority of the teams in the East.

 

[Deebs]

3) If we add Ehlers and Demidov next season, what are your top 3 lines? How does that look? Does it make sense? I do admit, I like the idea of adding Ehlers but I do have some challenges with creating our roster on paper.

Slaf / Suzuki / Caufield
Heineman / Demidov / Dach
Ehlers / Evans / Laine

Heineman / Suzuki / Caufield
Slaf / Dach / Demidov
Ehlers / Evans / Laine

Caufield / Suzuki / Demidov
Ehlers / Dach / Laine
Heineman / Evans / Slaf

Caufield - Suzuki - Heineman
Laine - Dach - Demidov
Slafkovsky -Evans - Ehlers
Anderson - Beck - Gallagher

I did the exercise because it's always entertaining to mess around with lines but I don't sign Ehlers if it was up to me.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Caufield - Suzuki - Heineman
Laine - Dach - Demidov
Slafkovsky -Evans - Ehlers
Anderson - Beck - Gallagher

I did the exercise because it's always entertaining to mess around with lines but I don't sign Ehlers if it was up to me.

I am not sure if it's the right move for us. Hence why I think we need to project roster line-ups. I don't hate the idea but there are some concerns.

For me, I feel Heineman fits very well with Evan's style. I personally like the idea of sticking Slaf with Caufield and Suzuki. Demidov with Dach makes sense. Then you wonder how to fill around this narrative.

If I were to do penciling in... this is how our depth chart looks (See below). No offense to our youth or vets, but this is how our future is shaping up. Adding Ehlers to play him 3rd line seems like a reach for me. It's like the Kings signing Dubois and playing him 3C.

Slaf / Suzuki / Caufield
Laine / Dach / Demidov
Heineman / Evans / ????

What do we do if Laine/Ehlers comes as a package? They both say they will leave a little on the table so they can both play together in Montreal? Not sure we say no to this. But it does make you wonder how we manage Evans and Newhook and our prospects like Beck, Kapanen, Roy, Hage in the coming years.

 

[Deebs]

I am not sure if it's the right move for us. Hence why I think we need to project roster line-ups. I don't hate the idea but there are some concerns.

For me, I feel Heineman fits very well with Evan's style. I personally like the idea of sticking Slaf with Caufield and Suzuki. Demidov with Dach makes sense. Then you wonder how to fill around this narrative.

Heine does work well with Evans but I also thinks he's the the type of player that can play anywhere. When I watch him play, I see a bigger Lehkonen. I put him up with Suzy and Cole because I think he could do all the heavy lifting for these guys by forcing plays using his outstanding forechecking abilities and speed.

The nice thing about our squad moving forward is we'll have numerous options when it comes to lines combinations in the future.

 

[Saundies]

How?

I mean experience is good but it doesn't make you more skilled, You eventually grab this experience if it's not this year it's going to be next. What will help the Montreal canadien long term is anoher solid top 6 forward and another solid top 4 dman. If you think an extra pick can help you acquire that at the next draft either by moving up in the first round or trading bunch of picks and prospects for a top 6 / 4 in his prime then you do it.

The whole picks are useless we win now must keep everyone thing is stupid imo. Picks are never useless since they are non depreciating assets and if you have to improve your teams non depreciating assets hold lot of value. I'm curious to see what will KH approach be at the next deadline. Contrary to popular belief this is not a cup contending lineup yet and KH focus should still be to build a cup contending lineup.

I'm still mind blown that so many fans think it's a good idea to either lose players on the UFA market for nothing or resign depreciating assets in a situation where we have to improve the value of our assets. If it was me the only guy i would entertain resigning would be Evans. The other guys would be traded. If you need Armia, Dvorak and Savard to make the playoffs then your team is not there yet.

You're working in the realm of competitive sports. These guys got to where they are today because they want to be the best, and want to win everything they do.

Your take is a purely logical, analytical perspective, which, while great, doesn't take into account various factors at play. Feelings, emotions. Those are things that can't be quantified but are extremely real. We don't know what these guys have been told by management or others to get them to sign here long term or commit their futures here.

Trading those various players, if the team is truly in the middle of a push for the playoffs and not kidding themselves (like 10 pts out with 6 teams to hop who have games in hand or something), something that hasn't happened non-covidly in 2017 and something that this entire roster hasn't experienced yet on this team, and you just start trading off what the players perceive as key pieces and tank their chances, you are going to piss people off and lose the faith of some guys.

"But we could use this 3rd round pick to trade up 4 spots in the draft and get a guy who has a 25% chance of making an impact in 3-4 years!!" is a hard sell to a guy who wants to win ASAP.

 

[sampollock]

KH when and if he makes a deal will shut this site down

I feel it's a centre we dont even or have talked about

 

[Habs Halifax]

Heine does work well with Evans but I also thinks he's the the type of player that can play anywhere. When I watch him play, I see a bigger Lehkonen. I put him up with Suzy and Cole because I think he could do all the heavy lifting for these guys by forcing plays using his outstanding forechecking abilities and speed.

The nice thing about our squad moving forward is we'll have numerous options when it comes to lines combinations in the future.

My issue would be two offensive guys with Evans. What line is being used for defensive zone faceoffs? It's not the Dach line and Suzuki's line should be 50% max. That puts Evans in a lot of defensive zone faceoffs. Does two offensive guys like it and would they be motivated?

KH when and if he makes a deal will shut this site down

I feel it's a centre we dont even or have talked about

Usually that is the case. What we talk about is cheap talk and the move actually made is out of nowhere.

 

[Adriatic]

Would definitely kick the tires on Cozens. He's the type to explode after getting out of Buffalo.

 

[Ozmodiar]

I’d like to see a veteran center added. Someone who could anchor the 2nd line, without question marks.

CC - NS - Slaf
Laine - Crosby(ROR) - Demidov
Heineman - Evans - Dach
Anderson - Beck - Gallagher

gone - dvo, Newhook, Savard, Armia, retained contracts.

What I wouldn’t give to see that 2nd line.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

I’d like to see a veteran center added. Someone who could anchor the 2nd line, without question marks.

CC - NS - Slaf
Laine - Crosby(ROR) - Demidov
Heineman - Evans - Dach
Anderson - Beck - Gallagher

gone - dvo, Newhook, Savard, Armia, retained contracts.

What I wouldn’t give to see that 2nd line.

Thanks, I'm not alone. Someone else on this planet earth thinks the same as me. I would like to kiss you on the mouth but we are dudes behind keyboards on internet, kissing is not well viewed in western civilisation, I'm not gay (neither you are) and I'm not not shaved, lol.

 

[waitin425]

Thanks, I'm not alone. Someone else on this planet earth thinks the same as me. I would like to kiss you on the mouth but we are dudes behind keyboards on internet, kissing is not well viewed in western civilisation, I'm not gay (neither yoy are) and I'm not not shaved, lol.

 

[Sorinth]

I see your point and it's a valid one, but approach this a bit differently. Unused cap space is an asset. As proven to be useful with Monahan/Laine. There are always players that fall out of favor during the season (see Miller/EP40). Having cap space can help HuGo make a in season trade for that key missing piece.

But once you are there.... it's all about timing anyway. Would Ehlers even be available, would a top RD be suddenly available? feel like there is almost as much luck then planning that goes into this.

For sure cap space can be an asset, but I think Hughes success in this area has created some unrealistic expectations. He's been successful with his gambles with Monahan/Laine, but make no mistake they were gambles that could easily have gone the other way. And speaking of timing, I feel we are past the point where we want to be taking gambles, we want to be making surer bets. Because our luck on these type of gambles will run out and when that does it will hurt us at a very inopportune time.

In terms of in season stuff, well we have the cap space right now to do that kind of thing, but chances are outside of some depth moves we won't end up spending it. And it's not because Hughes doesn't want to, or there aren't players that will be moved. It's that those type of things require so many things to go right, the player falling out has to be the right position, the right age, not have us on their NTC, the other team has to value the type of package we can give, has to be from a non-divisional sometimes conference rival, etc... It's just not a reliable plan for spending your cap dollars, and if you aren't spending your cap dollars you are handicapping the team's current chances of success.

Pretty darn close to how I see it as well. Adding Ehlers makes Newhook not required. I have a few comments or exercises for us to do to see how this looks...

1) What type of contract will Ehlers want? And is it connected to a Laine extension? What do both players get? Is $8M AAV fair for both players?

2) Add Ehlers and move Newhook for whatever we can get. This means we extend Evans right?

3) If we add Ehlers and Demidov next season, what are your top 3 lines? How does that look? Does it make sense? I do admit, I like the idea of adding Ehlers but I do have some challenges with creating our roster on paper.

Slaf / Suzuki / Caufield
Heineman / Demidov / Dach
Ehlers / Evans / Laine

Heineman / Suzuki / Caufield
Slaf / Dach / Demidov
Ehlers / Evans / Laine

Caufield / Suzuki / Demidov
Ehlers / Dach / Laine
Heineman / Evans / Slaf

For sure there are unkowns, and by no means is Ehlers a must have so if the money is too much, or they insist on having to play together, or whatever else doesn't work out in our favour then by all means don't sign the guy. He's very much a luxury/nice to have, if the constraints don't make sense so be it, but if those aren't real constraints then we should absolutetly look at pursuing him.

 

[Andy]

I've always liked Ehlers. Plays with great pace, hard worker, doesn't slack. Hard to play against.

But he's 28.

In an ideal world you can pull off a Nate Thompson esque trade with Dvorak without having to retain (pick swap to move up in a draft).

Then you target one of these players who are LH shots that play PK and center:

Kerfoot: best name of that group. Brings speed and fits with our style of play. Unsure if he could be kept though. I'd trade a 2nd for him.

Blueger: SC champion. I'd trade a 3rd and C level prospect for him (Kidney)

Sturm: Cheapest one to acquire. Brings a lot of size and FO prowess. A 4th would probably be enough.

Cates: this one would require a bit of an overpayment but could be worth it. Could be an Evans replacement

Kerfoot?

Man, if you guys do not like Newhook, you won't like Kerfoot.

 

[waitin425]

But he's 28.

God I'm old

 

[Andy]

God I'm old

28 is that weird age for forwards. A lot of top 6 guys just lose so much steam between 28-32.

I guess it's okay to go for these players if you are now a playoff club ready to bolster the lineup as you make your window run.

But 28 at this stage in the rebuild is risky IMO.

 

[Victoire HuGo]

I've always liked Ehlers. Plays with great pace, hard worker, doesn't slack. Hard to play against.

But he's 28.


Kerfoot?

Man, if you guys do not like Newhook, you won't like Kerfoot.

I mean depends on expectations. I'd be bringing Kerfoot to replace Dvorak. I wouldn't be gifting him PP time. If he can be a constant threat with his speed and play PK and win faceoffs like he's been doing in Utah, what's wrong? Some envision Newhook taking a Kerfoot esque former role but the former has gotten no reps in this type of role. We don't have winger depth to try it out right now