HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #81

[ReHabs]

Have you seen the goalie market? It f***ing sucks and they don't want their young defenseman fishing the puck out of their net every time they make a mistake during the rebuild.

Going with Monty and Primeau is a bad idea. They also really like Jake Allen as a leader in the locker room.

The other piece is it's extremely hard to find a goalie with the experience and ability of Allen who is content to be relegated to back-up status when the time comes. Most won't want to come here with the idea that they'll be sitting second fiddle to Primeau as soon as its feasible.

If Allen takes around 2m and two years then sure but the implication is that they’re going to give him a bigger contract. I wouldn’t be in a rush to further tie the team to him, personally.

Of course you don't.

Explain to me the rush then, with your insight.

 

[Sterling Archer]

I can also confirm.
#confirmed.

Habs apparently want a very short term and cap, and Allan wants a longer extension. Habs like his leadership and stability in the room along with ability to not get shelled on a nightly basis. Allan older and wants longer term and stability.

Don’t think it gets done but we’ll see.

 

[WeThreeKings]

If Allen takes around 2m and two years then sure but the implication is that they’re going to give him a bigger contract. I wouldn’t be in a rush to further tie the team to him, personally.


Explain to me the rush then, with your insight.

I don't think the implication is a bigger contract, now 2m is obviously light.. he's probably getting closer to 4 which is really only an increase of ~2m on the cap. With the money leaving in Drouin and Dadonov, it's not an issue at all. The term will be the thing that matters the most but I doubt they go anything longer than 3 years.

There isn't a rush but there's also no reason to wait. You have a good veteran goalie that you know you will need and he is willing to do all of the things you want from a veteran goalie. You have 0 idea of the market or the willingness of other veteran goalies that could be available, so why wait until UFA to find out and risk a play-off team with shitty goaltending (Toronto, for example) overpaying Allen and leaving you with no viable veteran option?

Seems like an unnecessary gamble to not extend him to me. There isn't any downside to it.

 

[ReHabs]

I don't think the implication is a bigger contract, now 2m is obviously light.. he's probably getting closer to 4 which is really only an increase of ~2m on the cap. With the money leaving in Drouin and Dadonov, it's not an issue at all. The term will be the thing that matters the most but I doubt they go anything longer than 3 years.

There isn't a rush but there's also no reason to wait. You have a good veteran goalie that you know you will need and he is willing to do all of the things you want from a veteran goalie. You have 0 idea of the market or the willingness of other veteran goalies that could be available, so why wait until UFA to find out and risk a play-off team with shitty goaltending (Toronto, for example) overpaying Allen and leaving you with no viable veteran option?

Seems like an unnecessary gamble to not extend him to me. There isn't any downside to it.

4m cap space is a luxury even if the cap goes up.

If the Habs intend to compete in 2023-2024, Allen is not the guy. If the Habs intend to tank in 2023-2024, that cap space can be sold to the highest bidder (perhaps for a goalie!).

There’s not much at stake for 23-24 so what’s the risk in waiting? Maybe we can trade Allen at the trade deadline to a playoff team who loses their goalie(s).

Anyway, it’s not a big topic… but even in Jrs I was never convinced of Allen…

 

[WeThreeKings]

4m cap space is a luxury even if the cap goes up.

If the Habs intend to compete in 2023-2024, Allen is not the guy. If the Habs intend to tank in 2023-2024, that cap space can be sold to the highest bidder (perhaps for a goalie!).

There’s not much at stake for 23-24 so what’s the risk in waiting? Maybe we can trade Allen at the trade deadline to a playoff team who loses their goalie(s).

Anyway, it’s not a big topic… but even in Jrs I was never convinced of Allen…

I think they know Allen isn't the guy.. he's just the veteran placeholder to eat pucks until a young goalie establishes themselves and he will fade into the back-up role.

They speak glowingly of him as a leader in the room and I think they value that a lot with a young team. They don't have a lot of veteran leaders in the locker room without Price or Weber around. Edmundson is really the only one with Byron who will be gone this year and Gallagher who I don't really think is that great of a leader off the ice.

 

[Runner77]

I can also confirm.
#confirmed.

Man these wannabe insiders just don’t know when to quit. Horrendous self-aggrandizement.

 

[ReHabs]

Man these wannabe insiders just don’t know when to quit. Horrendous self-aggrandizement.

That Marco D’Amico calling himself The Hockey Expert and then later apologizing for it

Bit off more than he could chew?

 

[Runner77]

That Marco D’Amico calling himself The Hockey Expert and then later apologizing for it

Bit off more than he could chew?

Did he really apologize for having dubbed himself a “hockey expert?” I missed it.

I’m still trying to figure out who his nameless “well-placed NHL executive” is, the one that appears in every other piece.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Did he really apologize for having dubbed himself a “hockey expert?” I missed it.

I’m still trying to figure out who his nameless “well-placed NHL executive” is, the one that appears in every other piece.

That executive was convinced the Habs were taking Wright.. so they might be well placed in a dark corner.

 

[ReHabs]

Did he really apologize for having dubbed himself a “hockey expert?” I missed it.

I’m still trying to figure out who his nameless “well-placed NHL executive” is, the one that appears in every other piece.

That was his moniker and username before he rebranded

 

[SOLR]

I don't think the implication is a bigger contract, now 2m is obviously light.. he's probably getting closer to 4 which is really only an increase of ~2m on the cap. With the money leaving in Drouin and Dadonov, it's not an issue at all. The term will be the thing that matters the most but I doubt they go anything longer than 3 years.

There isn't a rush but there's also no reason to wait. You have a good veteran goalie that you know you will need and he is willing to do all of the things you want from a veteran goalie. You have 0 idea of the market or the willingness of other veteran goalies that could be available, so why wait until UFA to find out and risk a play-off team with shitty goaltending (Toronto, for example) overpaying Allen and leaving you with no viable veteran option?

Seems like an unnecessary gamble to not extend him to me. There isn't any downside to it.

Depends on what you get in a trade.

Assuming we are not building for this year, an asset acquired this year could be an important asset in 3 years.

If he's not worth more than 3rd rounder, then I'm ok.
But I think at the deadline, he may fetch a high 2nd. This is what makes me a bit unsure.

 

[Andrewcoursol]

I'm willing to extend him if it's at a backup's price, but no need to get spendy on Allen.

I'm also willing to be patient and see how he performs this year/if he's got trade deadline value.

It is best to leave all options open regarding Allen, if Allen plays well than trade him to a team for a playoff run, get as good a return as possible, also leave the door open to resigning him to a decent deal with both contract term and amount salary wise. the habs will have a lot of cap room after not only this season but 23-24 season as well which will enable Hugo to sign Pld , or even Matthews as a Ufa, where most teams will not have anywhere near as much salary cap space, this is not including Price being on LTIR.

 

[Runner77]

That was his moniker and username before he rebranded

As much as Marco has made some interesting points on Twitter, a little humility goes a long way.

Always best to let an arm’s length consumer of one’s offerings, make the determination and ultimately, be the arbiter of the viability of a flattering moniker.

 

[SwiftyHab]

New thread! Yay!

 

[DailyKaizen]

You can even stop listening to Tony Marinaro.

He has a "the sick podcast" though

 

[Runner77]

He has a "the sick podcast" though

I’ve been watching Marinaro on JiC’s Spanre show and he barely lets JiC get a word in.

The whole interaction feels like a WWE promo, lol. Why am I watching it, I still don’t know.

 

[Habs10Habs]

If Allen takes around 2m and two years then sure but the implication is that they’re going to give him a bigger contract. I wouldn’t be in a rush to further tie the team to him, personally.

Allen is in the last year of his contract. When did you want them to start talking to him? If they offer him a number and he agrees to it, he stays. If not, you trade him at the deadline. It's better to find out now what the future holds. Then try to scramble around at the last minute.

 

[Peteux]

I’ve been watching Marinaro on JiC’s Spanre show and he barely lets JiC get a word in.

The whole interaction feels like a WWE promo, lol. Why am I watching it, I still don’t know.

On BPM? Marinaro is hard to listen to.

 

[The Great Weal]

I'm assuming HuGo are waiting as much as they need to trade away a forward or two since there could be injuries already at the start of the season. One trade proposal that seems interesting is Armia+Hoffman for Schmidt. Jets could use some forward depth and we need a PMD vet that can play on the right side.

 

[Garry Valk]

What could have been…

 

[Runner77]

Just curious whether you can envisage any trade scenario with the Flyers that would involve the Habs receiving JVR, who has a $7M cap hit but who is on an expiring contract.

Assuming Dvorak (4.45M) and say Armia (3.4M) is going the other way, who and/or what are the Flyers adding to JVR to make this enticing for the Habs? A minor balancing asset could be added to the mix to offset the difference in cap hits.

 

[Xirik]

Just curious whether you can envisage any trade scenario with the Flyers that would involve the Habs receiving JVR, who has a $7M cap hit but who is on an expiring contract.

Assuming Dvorak (4.45M) and say Armia (3.4M) is going the other way, who and/or what are the Flyers adding to JVR to make this enticing for the Habs? A minor balancing asset could be added to the mix to offset the difference in cap hits.

It is the Flyers so I can definitely envision it. They would definitely do something like that to keep there dreams alive even if they are going to be forced to wake up soon when they drive over the cliff.

 

[Scriptor]

Just curious whether you can envisage any trade scenario with the Flyers that would involve the Habs receiving JVR, who has a $7M cap hit but who is on an expiring contract.

Assuming Dvorak (4.45M) and say Armia (3.4M) is going the other way, who and/or what are the Flyers adding to JVR to make this enticing for the Habs? A minor balancing asset could be added to the mix to offset the difference in cap hits.

Why would they need to add a balancing asset. The assumption here would just be a Cap dump by the Habs medium term.

Adding 7.85M Cap space starting next year would, alone, handle a long term contract to Caufield and a bit more starting next season.

There'd still, hypothetically be 30.775M more in cap space to use on shoring up the lineup and preparing for upcoming transition contracts for more youngsters:

10.5M for Price (LTIR)
5M for Dadonov
6.375M for Monahan
5.5M for Drouin
3.4M for Byron

With Caufield signed, how much of that 30.775M could be used to re-up Allen's 2.875M? 1.125M to make it 4M for three more years?

How much of the remaining 29M could serve to sign a UFA, top-4 RHD like Weegar, for example? 6.5M? 6.75M? 7M?

We could see 7.5M of the remaining 22M earmarked for Dubois once he reaches UFA status.

There'd still be 14.5M left over, plus 4.5M for Hoffman the following season, as well as 3.5M for Edmundson.

Basically, there'd be 22.5M left over to address Slafkovsky's 2nd contract soon enough, as well as re-upping the best progressing young Ds, and that's not counting the rising Cap ceiling by then, nor more money being freed up by Savard's departure the following season (3.5M), to raise the cap space to 26M.

Montreal can add critical pieces to shore up the offense and the D (Dubois and Weegar -- or some other worthwhile, and relatively young UFA RHD), re-up Caufield and Slafkovsky and give interesting transition contracts to their young, talented Ds as they end their ELCs, all with no real Cap concerns.

By the time Gallagher enters the final year of his contract, Montreal's C-depth could well include Suzuki - Dubois - Dach - Beck and, if we're lucky, a top-6 C prospect in 2023 that would move Dubois to a top-6 LW role.

Slafkovsky - XXX (Bedard, Fantilli, Dvorsky, ???) - Mesar
Dubois - Suzuki - Caufield
Farrell - Dach - Roy
Heineman - Beck - Anderson

Guhle - Weegar
Harris - Mailloux
Xhekaj - Barron/Hutson

Plenty of skill with the ability to roll out lines like a metronome, bringing speed, size, skill consistently to the ice, making it extremely difficult for opponents to match our lines, overall.

That 4th line can work over opponents and do damage that will make the other three lines perform even better again tired match-ups.

 

[Runner77]

Why would they need to add a balancing asset. The assumption here would just be a Cap dump by the Habs medium term.

Adding 7.85M Cap space starting next year would, alone, handle a long term contract to Caufield and a bit more starting next season.

There'd still, hypothetically be 30.775M more in cap space to use on shoring up the lineup and preparing for upcoming transition contracts for more youngsters:

10.5M for Price (LTIR)
5M for Dadonov
6.375M for Monahan
5.5M for Drouin
3.4M for Byron

With Caufield signed, how much of that 30.775M could be used to re-up Allen's 2.875M? 1.125M to make it 4M for three more years?

How much of the remaining 29M could serve to sign a UFA, top-4 RHD like Weegar, for example? 6.5M? 6.75M? 7M?

We could see 7.5M of the remaining 22M earmarked for Dubois once he reaches UFA status.

There'd still be 14.5M left over, plus 4.5M for Hoffman the following season, as well as 3.5M for Edmundson.

Basically, there'd be 22.5M left over to address Slafkovsky's 2nd contract soon enough, as well as re-upping the best progressing young Ds, and that's not counting the rising Cap ceiling by then, nor more money being freed up by Savard's departure the following season (3.5M), to raise the cap space to 26M.

Montreal can add critical pieces to shore up the offense and the D (Dubois and Weegar -- or some other worthwhile, and relatively young UFA RHD), re-up Caufield and Slafkovsky and give interesting transition contracts to their young, talented Ds as they end their ELCs, all with no real Cap concerns.

By the time Gallagher enters the final year of his contract, Montreal's C-depth could well include Suzuki - Dubois - Dach - Beck and, if we're lucky, a top-6 C prospect in 2023 that would move Dubois to a top-6 LW role.

Slafkovsky - XXX (Bedard, Fantilli, Dvorsky, ???) - Mesar
Dubois - Suzuki - Caufield
Farrell - Dach - Roy
Heineman - Beck - Anderson

Guhle - Weegar
Harris - Mailloux
Xhekaj - Barron/Hutson

Plenty of skill with the ability to roll out lines like a metronome, bringing speed, size, skill consistently to the ice, making it extremely difficult for opponents to match our lines, overall.

That 4th line can work over opponents and do damage that will make the other three lines perform even better again tired match-ups.

Not sure I follow.

Let’s keep it simple.

Flyers give JVR.
Habs give Dvorak.

Who adds what to make it work for both sides?

 

[Galaxydoggystyle]

Why would the Habs need to extend a mediocre at best goalie

I don’t understand the rush

Its pretty simple reason. We cannot be trying to help our young players grow while getting our net filled in every night. That does two things. It lowers morale and destroys confidence. Allen is fine until we find an actual starter goalie.