Speculation: Trade and Free Agency - 2024-25

[Dr Jan Itor]

Kaprizov's NMC kicked in today.

 

[Arturia Pendragon]

Okay so I’m no hockey guru or anything but here’s what has me scratching my head…

We’re supposedly after Laine yea? And we’ll need to clear some cap space for that to happen right? And the players we’d need to trade to do so are the same players Guerin says need to have better upcoming seasons.

And Columbus will magically want said players after hearing this? Because the only way I see a net-positive value for Columbus is if we pay additional assets to get out from… Guerin’s contracts and self-admitted poor performing players?

Someone make it make sense for me. Preferably in gif form if possible .

 

[Wabit]

Okay so I’m no hockey guru or anything but here’s what has me scratching my head…

We’re supposedly after Laine yea? And we’ll need to clear some cap space for that to happen right? And the players we’d need to trade to do so are the same players Guerin says need to have better upcoming seasons.

And Columbus will magically want said players after hearing this? Because the only way I see a net-positive value for Columbus is if we pay additional assets to get out from… Guerin’s contracts and self-admitted poor performing players?

Someone make it make sense for me. Preferably in gif form if possible .

Russo for the Wild:

 

[Arturia Pendragon]

Russo for the Wild:

 

[Roman Maroni]

Don’t even have to be an expert lip reader…

 

[MuckOG]

Why did BG have to go and harsh our mellows like this? We were all on cloud 9 on Friday evening and just 72 hours later, he has us all scratching our heads again.

 

[BagHead]

Why did BG have to go and harsh our mellows like this? We were all on cloud 9 on Friday evening and just 72 hours later, he has us all scratching our heads again.

He's like a tragic villain in a novel. He's so close to being a hero, but then...

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

Why did BG have to go and harsh our mellows like this? We were all on cloud 9 on Friday evening and just 72 hours later, he has us all scratching our heads again.

I’m not upset, he acquired one guy, and it was a scouting target (the same ones we have been praising otherwise) at a position of need. I’m not sure why this signing was taken so poorly, our pro scouts have generally done a bang up job of finding guys that are players.

How many of our traded for players have been actually bad under Guerin? I can’t think of any, even a guy like Deslaurier looked good for a while until he got injured.

I’m willing to give some benefit of the doubt, especially for a guy that has given us fits when we played against him in the past. At least until we see him in action with the squad.

 

[MuckOG]

I’m not upset, he acquired one guy, and it was a scouting target (the same ones we have been praising otherwise) at a position of need. I’m not sure why this signing was taken so poorly, our pro scouts have generally done a bang up job of finding guys that are players.

How many of our traded for players have been actually bad under Guerin? I can’t think of any, even a guy like Deslaurier looked good for a while until he got injured.

I’m willing to give some benefit of the doubt, especially for a guy that has given us fits when we played against him in the past. At least until we see him in action with the squad.

I'm not "upset", I'm just a little puzzled. All things being equal, I don't have a problem with signing either of these two guys as they both fit needs. I'm just a little concerned about terms and the NTCs (even if they are limited 10 team clauses). Seems like overkill, to me.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I’m not upset, he acquired one guy, and it was a scouting target (the same ones we have been praising otherwise) at a position of need. I’m not sure why this signing was taken so poorly, our pro scouts have generally done a bang up job of finding guys that are players.

How many of our traded for players have been actually bad under Guerin? I can’t think of any, even a guy like Deslaurier looked good for a while until he got injured.

I’m willing to give some benefit of the doubt, especially for a guy that has given us fits when we played against him in the past. At least until we see him in action with the squad.

I think people are annoyed/miffed/upset because his bottom of the lineup moves are severely hindering potential top of the lineup splashes. Foligno + Trenin takes us out of the Marchessault possibility. Foligno + Trenin + Zucc takes us out of Stamkos/Lindholm/Guentzel. Just examples. Whether you wanted these guys is a different story.

So unless you feel like our top 6 is championship caliber, and I still kind of don't (hence why I wanted to go after Konecny), it just seems like adding/keeping the guys he is is just to tread water, not move forward.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

I think people are annoyed/miffed/upset because his bottom of the lineup moves are severely hindering potential top of the lineup splashes. Foligno + Trenin takes us out of the Marchessault possibility. Foligno + Trenin + Zucc takes us out of Stamkos/Lindholm/Guentzel. Just examples. Whether you wanted these guys is a different story.

So unless you feel like our top 6 is championship caliber, and I still kind of don't (hence why I wanted to go after Konecny), it just seems like adding/keeping the guys he is is just to tread water, not move forward.

I don’t expect our top 6 to be champion caliber while the buyouts are still on the books, UFA is also not where I would try to fix that. I am not heart broken about missing any on your list, Konecny would probably be a great target, but I don’t think Philly is giving him up for anything I would want to pay.

I probably had different expectations than most, as I’ve mentioned in the past, I would rather make an in season acquisition if needed, when we do have access to a larger cap pool and the buyouts are less impactful on who we can sign. In the meantime though, filling out the bottom of our roster with a guy that can actually play that role well is fine by me, I hope we can have champion caliber depth to go along with a strong top 6 in future seasons. I think Guerin has managed the contracts well enough that we do have the space to sign a strong player down the line while still keeping the core players here.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

I'm not "upset", I'm just a little puzzled. All things being equal, I don't have a problem with signing either of these two guys as they both fit needs. I'm just a little concerned about terms and the NTCs (even if they are limited 10 team clauses). Seems like overkill, to me.

I think the term for Trenin is pretty great, he is locked up for his full prime years with us, ending when he is 31. For a physical guy like that, it’s the perfect time to cut bait and it’s likely he still has value at the end of his term. Middleton is essentially the same thing, while I don’t love the player, he does bring an element that we need and are otherwise lacking in our D.

If we didn’t sign both of these guys, we would be signing someone similar next year, in an even higher cap situation, and with more urgency for them to leverage against us.

 

[roon]

I think people are annoyed/miffed/upset because his bottom of the lineup moves are severely hindering potential top of the lineup splashes. Foligno + Trenin takes us out of the Marchessault possibility. Foligno + Trenin + Zucc takes us out of Stamkos/Lindholm/Guentzel. Just examples. Whether you wanted these guys is a different story.

So unless you feel like our top 6 is championship caliber, and I still kind of don't (hence why I wanted to go after Konecny), it just seems like adding/keeping the guys he is is just to tread water, not move forward.

It very well could be that we were never a realistic destination for any of them. Taxes in MN are awful - everyone on your list but Lindholm went to tax friendly states and Lindholm was always going to Boston.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

It very well could be that we were never a realistic destination for any of them. Taxes in MN are awful - everyone on your list but Lindholm went to tax friendly states and Lindholm was always going to Boston.

It's more the general idea, not really the specific names.

And you don't really know what you can do when you don't have the ability to find out.

 

[roon]

It's more the general idea, not really the specific names.

And you don't really know what you can do when you don't have the ability to find out.

Maybe we tried?

 

[f7ben]

Just a week ago we were all being fed on a top 6 able stop gap. If that had to be Perron or Laine then fine. Instead we get another bottom line grinder that paid over market.

 

[Saga of the Elk]

I think Trenin could end up being a valuable piece, despite the price.

 

[Spurgeon]

I don’t expect our top 6 to be champion caliber while the buyouts are still on the books, UFA is also not where I would try to fix that. I am not heart broken about missing any on your list, Konecny would probably be a great target, but I don’t think Philly is giving him up for anything I would want to pay.

I probably had different expectations than most, as I’ve mentioned in the past, I would rather make an in season acquisition if needed, when we do have access to a larger cap pool and the buyouts are less impactful on who we can sign. In the meantime though, filling out the bottom of our roster with a guy that can actually play that role well is fine by me, I hope we can have champion caliber depth to go along with a strong top 6 in future seasons. I think Guerin has managed the contracts well enough that we do have the space to sign a strong player down the line while still keeping the core players here.

The problem is that every single one of Guerin’s extensions/signings extends into that period.

 

[Wabit]

I think Trenin could end up being a valuable piece, despite the price.

I think he'll be a player I like watching, but won't like the cap hit. Somewhat similar to Foligno at $4m/yr.

The problem is that every single one of Guerin’s extensions/signings extends into that period.

Just to be nitpicky. Not all of them MAF, MarJo, and Merrill don't. Thank goodness for small things I guess?

 

[Spurgeon]

I think he'll be a player I like watching, but won't like the cap hit. Somewhat similar to Foligno at $4m/yr.



Just to be nitpicky. Not all of them MAF, MarJo, and Merrill don't. Thank goodness for small things I guess?

Incoming 3-year extensions for each.

 

[Wabit]

It's more the general idea, not really the specific names.

And you don't really know what you can do when you don't have the ability to find out.

Capfriendly has the filters for that type of search IIRC. I don't like using it because it overwhelms me with options.

Incoming 3-year extensions for each.

Honestly/sadly if MArJo has a 1st good month of the season I could see that one happening.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

The problem is that every single one of Guerin’s extensions/signings extends into that period.

Yeah, but they are players that I don’t mind having around personally, I think most of them are pretty effective in their roles when they are playing at their best. Freddy Gaudreau is on a very short leash for me, but otherwise, it’s a matter of building chemistry and getting hot at the right time. Even the most lopsided playoff series are still only 65/35 win chances, most are 55/45. It is frustrating when things don’t break our way, but every team starts the year with a 1/32 shot of winning the cup, cup or bust is not how I choose to approach this sport, I enjoy the process each step of the way.

 

[Spurgeon]

Capfriendly has the filters for that type of search IIRC. I don't like using it because it overwhelms me with options.



Honestly/sadly if MArJo has a 1st good month of the season I could see that one happening.

Capfriendly has a lot of filters to choose from & they’re pretty decent, but the functionality is a bit lacking. It can be hard to identify players beyond point totals & specified demographics/cap hits. I wish they had more ES/PP/PK splits & advanced stats to vary their searches by. It’s kind of necessary to combine it with other advanced stat sites (like NaturalStatTrick) for it to be really useful.

 

[Wabit]

Capfriendly has a lot of filters to choose from & they’re pretty decent, but the functionality is a bit lacking. It can be hard to identify players beyond point totals & specified demographics/cap hits. I wish they had more ES/PP/PK splits & advanced stats to vary their searches by. It’s kind of necessary to combine it with other advanced stat sites (like NaturalStatTrick) for it to be really useful.

I'm getting what I pay for with capfriendy (nothing) so I can't really complain about it's functionality.

I don't really make teams or comment much anymore on there because it makes me angry. I really don't like the state of the team, and there isn't anything that can really be done without ignoring the cap and/or NTCs.

 

[Spurgeon]

Yeah, but they are players that I don’t mind having around personally, I think most of them are pretty effective in their roles when they are playing at their best. Freddy Gaudreau is on a very short leash for me, but otherwise, it’s a matter of building chemistry and getting hot at the right time. Even the most lopsided playoff series are still only 65/35 win chances, most are 55/45. It is frustrating when things don’t break our way, but every team starts the year with a 1/32 shot of winning the cup, cup or bust is not how I choose to approach this sport, I enjoy the process each step of the way.

I like to watch competitive hockey & I think Guerin has done a decent job of patching together a team that can do that with their cap limitations.

However, I think he’s completely squandered the opportunity to really capitalize on some big signings either during this offseason or the next. Regardless of whether a playoff series is a 55/45 or a 60/40, he’s been able to watch more than enough 1st round exits to attempt something new. From all of his actions though, he’s built the same country club dynamic that he claimed he was going to rid this franchise of. He’s now given out NMCs & NTC extensions to players that are a year away from UFA in back-to-back seasons. In my opinion, there is no justification for these moves. I can’t think of a single scenario where players he signed early would’ve received more if he waited til midseason or even the end of the season to extend them.

He could’ve built around this core for the 25-26 season with approximately $30-33M in cap:

Kap - Ek - Boldy
X - Yurov - X
Ohgren - Rossi - X
X - Khus - X

Brodin - Faber
X - Spurgeon
X - X

Gus
Wall

This isn’t to say that I think he should’ve completed avoided extending anyone. I think Hartman had a place on this roster & I could even tolerate Middleton’s extension. What I can’t tolerate is giving Gaudreau, Trenin, & Foligno $10M to play on the fourth line.