Pre-Game Talk: Toronto @ Montreal - Wednesday 7pm - SN

[Roo]

He is useless... except for against Montreal. He should be useless against Montreal too... but DoPs has given Costco the greenlight to be a jackass... so it is what it is. We are better off hockey wise without him. This is more of a DoPs story, not doing their jobs, than anything else.

Interesting... so you don't have him in your lineup for the game against Montreal?

 

[Arzak]

F*ck summer

Hockey time baby !! GLG

 

[Fogelhund]

Interesting... so you don't have him in your lineup for the game against Montreal?

You could always read the previous page of this thread, and you'd have your answer.

 

[Buds17]

While I'd like to have seen McMann and Liljegren in there, it's also comforting to have such capable extras ready to step in as needed. It just so happens that the tougher test should end up coming from the back half of this B2B scenario as well.

 

[ACC1224]

Interesting... so you don't have him in your lineup for the game against Montreal?

If the 4th line plays like they did Saturday they can put them in the lineup for all 82.

 

[BTP]

We badly need a new center at 2C.

They made all the moves in the summer on defense and completely ignored up front.. when the issue in playoffs is lack of SCORING

Infuriating

 

[notDatsyuk]

His salary is irrelevant to this particular question - we know he's very overpaid, there's no point debating this.

The question is, is his production good enough to be a 2nd line centre on a contending team, and there is no question that it is.

A typical first-line C puts up 77 points/season. A 2nd line C puts up 50 points/season. JT Put up 65 last season, which puts his production closer to that of a #1 C than #2 C. In no world is he not at least a good #2 C.

Review of Production Based on Time on Ice

How many points does the average 1st liner in the NHL get each regular season? What’s the typical production from forwards getting second line minutes? And how do Winnipeg Jet forwards compare to…

www.arcticicehockey.com

The article quoted shows stats for forwards rather than centres in particular, and shows he had top end 2nd line time, and good but not great numbers.

What it doesn't show is the impact of linemates - he played with one of the very top wingers (tenth in points among all skaters). How would he have done without Nylander? It's similar to the Hyman issue - would he have produced anything like those numbers if he wasn't riding the coattails of the best player in the league?

But more to the point is that his numbers weren't as good as the year before, despite Nylander producing better than ever. If he was an average 2C last year playing with a top winger, what will he do this year? Can even Willy continue to carry him that well?

 

[Roo]

You could always read the previous page of this thread, and you'd have your answer.

My question was whether you would put him in the lineup, not what you thought the leafs would do. If he offers nothing you're waiving him. You're entitled to your opinion, all good man. But the Leafs are dressing him, which implies he is useful, albeit in certain situations.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

and you replace him with who exactly?

Granlund, Gourde..... you think that makes us better?

I don't want them to walk away from Tavares but if you are going to replace him the best option, at least as far as free agency goes would be Sam Bennett.

Who knows what the trade market will look like

 

[AuraSphere]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1843307248208183458

I think Holmberg should be 4th line, Reaves should be sitting. Mcmann sitting makes no sense tbh.

Knies - Matthews - Marner
Mcmann- Tavares - Nylander
Pacioretty - Domi - Robertson
Lorentz - Kampf - Holmberg

much better imo

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Prediction Contest:

TOR 3-1
Matthews
Patches 67

 

[dangomon]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1843307248208183458

I think Holmberg should be 4th line, Reaves should be sitting. Mcmann sitting makes no sense tbh.

Knies - Matthews - Marner
Mcmann- Tavares - Nylander
Pacioretty - Domi - Robertson
Lorentz - Kampf - Holmberg

much better imo

McMann sitting makes no sense, but he has not played nearly well enough to be anywhere near the top 6 yet. Put him on the 4th to inject some speed alongside Kampf and Lorentz and call it a day.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Looks like we're going for a garbage 4th line again this year.

 

[Kurtz]

The article quoted shows stats for forwards rather than centres in particular, and shows he had top end 2nd line time, and good but not great numbers.

What it doesn't show is the impact of linemates - he played with one of the very top wingers (tenth in points among all skaters). How would he have done without Nylander? It's similar to the Hyman issue - would he have produced anything like those numbers if he wasn't riding the coattails of the best player in the league?

But more to the point is that his numbers weren't as good as the year before, despite Nylander producing better than ever. If he was an average 2C last year playing with a top winger, what will he do this year? Can even Willy continue to carry him that well?

If the average for a 2nd line guy is 50 points and JT put up 65 points, that would make him well above average for that role. He has to decline by a fair bit to get to average.

 

[Fogelhund]

Looks like we're going for a garbage 4th line again this year.

It's one game. Keep your pants on.

My question was whether you would put him in the lineup, not what you thought the leafs would do. If he offers nothing you're waiving him. You're entitled to your opinion, all good man. But the Leafs are dressing him, which implies he is useful, albeit in certain situations.

Yes, he needs to be in the lineup, given DoPs has given Costco the greenlight to be an idiot. It's not what I like in hockey, and as far as actual hockey is concerned, he isn't useful. He's not an ongoing deterrent... but someone has to fight Costco in this game, and he's about the only option that won't get caved.

 

[Dekes For Days]

It's one game.

Should be 0 games.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

Looks like we're going for a garbage 4th line again this year.

If they play with the energy they did Saturday, they’ll serve a purpose. I’m not holding my breath. Reaves should only be playing against certain teams…Montreal being one of them.

 

[Fogelhund]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1843307248208183458

I think Holmberg should be 4th line, Reaves should be sitting. Mcmann sitting makes no sense tbh.

Knies - Matthews - Marner
Mcmann- Tavares - Nylander
Pacioretty - Domi - Robertson
Lorentz - Kampf - Holmberg

much better imo

Understand this is likely a one game lineup, that will be changed in game two. Understand why the lineup looks that way as well.

Should be 0 games.

I agree... except DoPs has allowed Costco to do as he pleases. Would you prefer to go into that game without Reaves in the lineup, allowed Costco to be a goon with no real answer?

 

[DutchHockeyGuy]

I'm not Reaves' biggest fan but Wednesday's game has the potential to get real chippy and dirty and we're going to appreciate having him out there....IF he does his job. If Jack-ass wants to run our people, he should have someone to be accountable to.

I wish we could bring back prime Fraser McLaren for one game just to knock that goon out of the league with one punch.

 

[Rare Jewel]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1843307248208183458

I think Holmberg should be 4th line, Reaves should be sitting. Mcmann sitting makes no sense tbh.

Knies - Matthews - Marner
Mcmann- Tavares - Nylander
Pacioretty - Domi - Robertson
Lorentz - Kampf - Holmberg

much better imo

Going off of the Masters tweet, I can't help but feel that if you saw that April or May, you'd be disappointed in how little changed.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I agree... except DoPs has allowed Costco to do as he pleases. Would you prefer to go into that game without Reaves in the lineup, allowed Costco to be a goon with no real answer?

Xhekaj is going to be a dangerous idiot, no matter who plays. I value putting the best team out there and trying to win more than I value seeing Reaves and Xhekaj have some pointless slap fight.

 

[TheGroceryStick]

Kinda dumb not to atleast try Johnny as 3C

Knies-Matthews-Marner
Pacioretty-Nylander-Domi
McMann-Tavares-Robertson
Lorentz-Kampf-Reaves(because habs)

 

[DutchHockeyGuy]

Going off of the Masters tweet, I can't help but feel that if you saw that April or May, you'd be disappointed in how little changed.

It is really only Tanev as a meaningful addition. I seriously dislike a washed up former Habs captain in our lineup. Marner and Matthews together again to pad their stats. No McMann.

Man, this lineup is depressing. Very disappointed in the new coach.

 

[barilko05]

I don't want them to walk away from Tavares but if you are going to replace him the best option, at least as far as free agency goes would be Sam Bennett.

Who knows what the trade market will look like

I think you're dreaming if you think Bennett is coming here. Its obvious he thrives OUT of the spotlight. Bust in Calgary...goes to the wilderness, revives his career and wins a cup. Some guys just aren't built to handle the intense scrutiny of a Canadian market ( like O'Reilly and Stamkos). I can't see Bennett coming back to this, the biggest, toughest market to play in, when he could just take his cup win, stay in FLA and enjoy the anonymity. But...who knows? Money talks and...

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I think you're dreaming if you think Bennett is coming here. Its obvious he thrives OUT of the spotlight. Bust in Calgary...goes to the wilderness, revives his career and wins a cup. Some guys just aren't built to handle the intense scrutiny of a Canadian market ( like O'Reilly and Stamkos). I can't see Bennett coming back to this, the biggest, toughest market to play in, when he could just take his cup win, stay in FLA and enjoy the anonymity. But...who knows? Money talks and...

Money certainly does talk and when it does people listen.