Proposal: Tor - Phi

[BrindamoursNose]

No thanks.

Morin paying off on the high end is more valuable than Kap. Would love to have another Kapanen in Philly though.

 

[Rebels57]

No thanks.

Morin paying off on the high end is more valuable than Kap. Would love to have another Kapanen in Philly though.

That's how I feel. Would love to have Kapanen, but not at Morin's expense.

I meant his father at 2007 draft party. He was awesome!

 

[Randy Randerson]

No thanks.

Morin paying off on the high end is more valuable than Kap. Would love to have another Kapanen in Philly though.

From a leaf fan perspective, I can totally understand the allure of sitting on Morin as a lottery ticket. If he turns out to be Chara jr, that's a piece that you could build a team around, and one that is very hard to beat in the playoffs like Boston was.

Kapanen's upside is still there and the value on paper seems reasonable to me, but I'd understand Philly not wanting to trade Morin

 

[iBELEAF]

Why would we sell kapenen short just so we can have a meh defensive prospect

 

[Rebels57]

Why would we sell kapenen short just so we can have a meh defensive prospect

Morin is far from a meh defensive prospect, but nice try.

6'7, moves the puck well, hard slapper, mean as ****, great PKer.

His draft + 1 year was better than his draft year. His second AHL season was better than his first one. He is progressing nicely. Should be a mainstay by 17-18 season at the latest. Probably gets his first call up before end of the 16-17 season.

Shutdown defensemen are very important when the playoffs roll around.

I know it's been a while in Toronto but you'll see sooner than later

 

[Randy Randerson]

Morin is far from a meh defensive prospect, but nice try.

6'7, moves the puck well, hard slapper, mean as ****, great PKer.

His draft + 1 year was better than his draft year. His second AHL season was better than his first one. He is progressing nicely. Should be a mainstay by 17-18 season at the latest. Probably gets his first call up before end of the 16-17 season.

Shutdown defensemen are very important when the playoffs roll around.

I know it's been a while in Toronto but you'll see sooner than later

That opinion of Morin is not universal in Leaf Land. I would say he's in the tier just shy of Blue Chip, the same place Kapanen fits IMO.

He could be Boris Valabik, or could be Zdeno-light, only time will tell, and his progress looks fine to me

 

[Flyerfan47]

Interesting.
I actually thought Kapanen as the safer prospect. Morin has nice size, but it also has the potential to get exposed in the NHL- whereas Kapenen is following the new NHL prototype(if. You will)
Not to mention, i see a complete player that has the ability to play 3rd line , good wheels. with top 6 potential - rather than top6 or bust.
Respect your opinion on dealing with your depth, i just saw some different need/wants and wanted to see if it fit.

How would a 6'7 defenseman with wheels get exposed ? Whats getting exposed ? He can hit, fight, skate and your not asking him to score. Once he figures out positioning, he'll be a top pairing guy.

 

[Randy Randerson]

How would a 6'7 defenseman with wheels get exposed ? Whats getting exposed ? He can hit, fight, skate and your not asking him to score. Once he figures out positioning, he'll be a top pairing guy.

I think in this context, "get exposed" means having his flaws exploited by opposition resulting in scoring chances/scoring

Hitting and Fighting are diminishing value skills IMO, skating getting to be more important and position being extremely important for defensemen. I also think that any top pairing guy (a guy who is one of the teams top 2 defensemen, not just played on the top pairing) also needs to generate offense.

Morin could be that, but assuming that he will I think is an over rating. Kapanen could be a 1st line winger, but it wouldn't be wise for us to assume he will be.

 

[TheGroceryStick]

How would a 6'7 defenseman with wheels get exposed ? Whats getting exposed ? He can hit, fight, skate and your not asking him to score. Once he figures out positioning, he'll be a top pairing guy.

I like what I see. I was moreso commenting in the defense of Kapenen being a top6 or bust, and that Morin was far more the for sure NHLer.
We are all aware of how shutdown dmen can have their setbacks when making the NHL jump... I see both as good prospects, and can understand how both fanbases want to see what the future brings. Saw a need for big dmen prospects in Toronto and one for forward prospects in Philly - just wanted to see how it fit.

 

[Brock Radunske]

No thanks from the Flyers.

Morin will fill a major need on their defense in the future. Big, strong, mobile shutdown down/PKer to balance out the puck-moving Ghost, Sanheim, or Provorov. We have plenty of skilled wingers now and in the future. We only have one prospect like Morin.

I do like Kapanen FWIW.

Most I would trade for him would be Robert Hagg + Matt Read or 3rd.

Hagg has top 4 LD potential. Very good bet to play solid bottom pair minutes even if he doesnt pan out. Read would give TO a veteran defensively responsible forward that can chip in 30 points and PK to help them crawl out of basement. Toronto probably declines.

No thanks on Hagg. He doesn't really add much to our prospect pool.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

From a leaf fan perspective, I can totally understand the allure of sitting on Morin as a lottery ticket. If he turns out to be Chara jr, that's a piece that you could build a team around, and one that is very hard to beat in the playoffs like Boston was.

Kapanen's upside is still there and the value on paper seems reasonable to me, but I'd understand Philly not wanting to trade Morin

That's the thing. I have no doubt Kap can be a player, but IF Morin pans out...his size and speed would be just so unique... I can't pass that up!

 

[Marlander93]

Pretty unfair trade imo. Morin has a much better chance of making the NHL than Kapanen.

 

[Mr Hockey*]

Pretty unfair trade imo. Morin has a much better chance of making the NHL than Kapanen.

I would say Kapanen is a lock to play in the NHL.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

if we are moving kapanen, we need a RHD.

Rielly
Gardiner
Marincin
Dermott
Nielsen
Loov
Valiev

all set at LD

Problem is only 2 of those are top 4

 

[CanadienShark]

Seems like a fair deal to me. The only real sticking point I see is that Morin is a LHD.

Maybe both (or one) side(s) say(s) no, but it's a pretty damn fair trade, I think.

 

[Raymoondo]

Problem is only 2 of those are top 4

How many LD do you need in the top 4?

 

[Randy Randerson]

That's the thing. I have no doubt Kap can be a player, but IF Morin pans out...his size and speed would be just so unique... I can't pass that up!

Even if Morin ends up as a bottom pairing defender, if he learns to position himself well he'll be killing the first 75 seconds of every penalty too, that kind of size is a real advantage clearing the net and getting sticks in lanes

Anyway, very much agreed that his frame is an X factor. I think if Morin is 6'2" the flyers fanbase would see him as much more expendable with Provorov, Sanheim, Myers, Hagg, etc

Seems like a fair deal to me. The only real sticking point I see is that Morin is a LHD.

Maybe both (or one) side(s) say(s) no, but it's a pretty damn fair trade, I think.

Also that Morin is freaky big, he's unique if he works out as per the above. In a vacuum I agree on the value being good

 

[Legend123]

Both players have had their stock fallen since their draft. But Morin at least is big enough and defensive enough to play in the NHL whereas Kapannen doesnt seem to have much going his way.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

How many LD do you need in the top 4?

At this point we just need to fix the top 4. Beyond that though Reilly can and does play the right side

 

[Randy Randerson]

Both players have had their stock fallen since their draft. But Morin at least is big enough and defensive enough to play in the NHL whereas Kapannen doesnt seem to have much going his way.

I'll disagree with the Kapanen assessment. The perception of his ceiling has probably fallen, there were those who thought Kapanen was the best European skater available in a draft that included Nylander, Fiala and Vrana, so the projections were quite high. The likelihood of him hitting a top line upside is less than on draft day, but he was also thought of as a "top 6 or bust" player then as well, and that perception has definitely changed as he was used defensively alot in the AHL last year. He also hasn't had the opportunity to play on the offensive side in the AHL that most top prospects get because of how deep the Marlies were, and most of that top 6 will graduate to the big club this year, so wait a year on writing him off as a top 6 winger, and even if that happens there's a very good chance he's a long time 3rd liner a la Carl Hagelin

Have a watch if his highlights from this last year, he's not without talent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9NMhLktQYc
Credit to SEER for this and all of the leafs prospect highlight reels

 

[Legend123]

I'll disagree with the Kapanen assessment. The perception of his ceiling has probably fallen, there were those who thought Kapanen was the best European skater available in a draft that included Nylander, Fiala and Vrana, so the projections were quite high. The likelihood of him hitting a top line upside is less than on draft day, but he was also thought of as a "top 6 or bust" player then as well, and that perception has definitely changed as he was used defensively alot in the AHL last year. He also hasn't had the opportunity to play on the offensive side in the AHL that most top prospects get because of how deep the Marlies were, and most of that top 6 will graduate to the big club this year, so wait a year on writing him off as a top 6 winger, and even if that happens there's a very good chance he's a long time 3rd liner a la Carl Hagelin

Have a watch if his highlights from this last year, he's not without talent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9NMhLktQYc
Credit to SEER for this and all of the leafs prospect highlight reels

I dont doubt doubt he has talent nor do I doubt he can become a top 6 or a top 9 player. I just have my concerns over the player on becoming a full time NHL player since his draft. He was touted as a top 10 pick heading into the draft. He fell all the way to #22. He was then traded and has put up weak numbers in the AHL and went pointless in 9 games in the NHL. That's pretty concerning. Plus, he will probably get overlooked with all the prospects the rebuild is bringing on (Matthews, Marner, Nylander).

p.s. that song almost gave me cancer.

 

[Starat327]

Both players have had their stock fallen since their draft. But Morin at least is big enough and defensive enough to play in the NHL whereas Kapannen doesnt seem to have much going his way.

Praytell, how has Morins stock dropped? Because he didn't play in the NHL at age 18? He improved in his draft +1, and looked progressively better during his time with Lehigh. I'm legitimately curious how you can make such an assessment.

 

[Randy Randerson]

I dont doubt doubt he has talent nor do I doubt he can become a top 6 or a top 9 player. I just have my concerns over the player on becoming a full time NHL player since his draft. He was touted as a top 10 pick heading into the draft. He fell all the way to #22. He was then traded and has put up weak numbers in the AHL and went pointless in 9 games in the NHL. That's pretty concerning. Plus, he will probably get overlooked with all the prospects the rebuild is bringing on (Matthews, Marner, Nylander).

p.s. that song almost gave me cancer.

the key is to turn off the audio for all prospect highlight reels

Keep in mind that many of Kapanen's peers were still playing junior last year, and most that put up bing AHL numbers get the opportunity to play top 6 + PP time, he was playing behind Nylander, Brown, Leivo, Arcobello, Leipsic and a few others depending on the time, so I'd wait this year before passing judgement because he'll get more offensive opportunities this year.

I agree he didn't look great at times for his NHL stint, but he was playing ~ 14 mins a night on a team that couldn't score. I also agree that his ceiling expectations have fallen since draft day, but at the same time he's opened up the chance at playing a bottom 6 role and looked good enough at it that I think his chances of an NHL career are higher today than on draft day

 

[Legend123]

the key is to turn off the audio for all prospect highlight reels

Keep in mind that many of Kapanen's peers were still playing junior last year, and most that put up bing AHL numbers get the opportunity to play top 6 + PP time, he was playing behind Nylander, Brown, Leivo, Arcobello, Leipsic and a few others depending on the time, so I'd wait this year before passing judgement because he'll get more offensive opportunities this year.

I agree he didn't look great at times for his NHL stint, but he was playing ~ 14 mins a night on a team that couldn't score. I also agree that his ceiling expectations have fallen since draft day, but at the same time he's opened up the chance at playing a bottom 6 role and looked good enough at it that I think his chances of an NHL career are higher today than on draft day

Fair enough. I hope hes part of the leafs future!

 

[Legend123]

Praytell, how has Morins stock dropped? Because he didn't play in the NHL at age 18? He improved in his draft +1, and looked progressively better during his time with Lehigh. I'm legitimately curious how you can make such an assessment.

Im so sorry I upset you, please forgive me