Confirmed with Link: [TOR/CHI] G Petr Mrazek & 25th Overall Pick to CHI for 38th Overall Pick

[Leaf Fans]

Opportunity cost. Certainly part of the equation.

Yeah, it still was a good deal for the Leafs. Dubas still had to correct a mistake. It cost us very little. It didn't cost us a first rounder like some have claimed. It certainly didn't cost us the high prices ( 23 first rounder or Sandin or even no one would touch that contract) that were spewed out before the trade.

lol hindsight is amazing isn't it...

We needed a goalie... either resign Anderson or it was a cheaper option in Mrazek... it didn't work out... ohh well.. cost 13 spots to fit the mistake.

It is amazing. Thankfully, we didn't give up much. Even traded down again and got more picks. We went into the draft with three picks and Mzarek and left the draft with 5 picks and no Mzareak + 3.8 mill in cap. It was a very good draft for the Leafs. If I were the GM, I would have sold a 3rd for 3.8 million in cap.

 

[deprw]

yup what an unbelievable mess that Lou left , lol

1 yr to long for Marleau and 1m to much for Z

but on the flip side he left a boat load of team friendly deals which for some reason Dubies guys can't remember

Rielly
Kadri
Andersen
Brown
Hyman

I guess however i should still be praising Dubie who had to pay to dump horrific contracts he signed less than a yr ago in Mzerak and Rithcie

also i'm left to wonder how much it'll take to dump Tavares and Muzzin who are both declining and overpaid

Lou wasn't all bad far from it. You though have to remember that Hyman was Dubas acquisition. Andersen was Lou's choice for being the number one guy and you can pretty surely say, that it wasn't good choice. You could argue last season that we might have made mistake, but he pulled "the Andersen" also with the Canes. We were proactive with Campbell, which saved us twice. Once because of Andersen and once because of Mrazek / Dubas.

Should we also praise Burke here who drafted Kadri, Brown and Rielly. I think mostly this debate about Lou and Dubas keeps going, because these opinions about our GMs are so polarized and extremely away from each other.

Smallest of mistake to worst blunder Dubas gets bashed as badly, like there was, is or ever will be perfect GM.

He also got rid of the unmoveable contract of all time I was told, Phaneuf.

I think big part of this deal was extreme stinginess of Eugene Melnyk, which drove that franchise back then. It was financially perfect deal for Ottawa and hockey wise great for us, but rarely in this league you see that kind of trades made. It was perfect timing and also perfect execution from Lous side, but not something you can manufacture in every situation, because you need right circumstances to make that kind of trade to happen.

There are lot of good things left for this organization of the tenure of Lou. He came to change the culture and with Shanahan they made this franchise respectable that it wasn't outside of early 90s and early 2000s.

Also if we look how he has burn futures with Isles and how he built his team around players that will become burden sooner rather than later I'm happy that I didn't see him continue this rebuild. Our moderator is echoing building the net out narrative like hell, but if we look tenure of Lou. All he added was Andersen, that couldn't handle the pressure, but not a single building block on the defense.

 

[nuck]

We wouldn't have tradded the 25th for the 38th. We would have gotten an extra pick a 3rd or 4th rounder. Not getting that was part of the cost of Chicago taking Mzarek. 13 places is normal in a trade down ,but whatever the extra pick would have been with the trade down.

No its either or, not both. We have no idea if Dubas even makes the deal down if it doesn't mean Mrazek is gone. Maybe that was the only high enough value outcome for him not to gamble on Lambert/Howard/Firkus whoever so once the apparent steals are gone it met the clubs risk tolerance. On top of which Chicago's player whom they probably had in the top 15 had to be there or they don't touch Mrazek. I believe it was good value but that it had to be a perfect storm to happen.

Then we don't know the results of a drop down for picks. If you dig you can find what was written at the time about the 2015 trade down and it was pretty positive except they ended up with Dermott and Bracco instead of Aho and Cirelli. They played the percentages and lost but that was more on Dave Morrision and the scouting corp at the time than KD or Hunter because the talent in play has proven to be solid so the strategy was solid..

 

[Leaf Fans]

No its either or, not both. We have no idea if Dubas even makes the deal down if it doesn't mean Mrazek is gone. Maybe that was the only high enough value outcome for him not to gamble on Lambert/Howard/Firkus whoever so once the apparent steals are gone it met the clubs risk tolerance. On top of which Chicago's player whom they probably had in the top 15 had to be there or they don't touch Mrazek. I believe it was good value but that it had to be a perfect storm to happen.

Then we don't know the results of a drop down for picks. If you dig you can find what was written at the time about the 2015 trade down and it was pretty positive except they ended up with Dermott and Bracco instead of Aho and Cirelli. They played the percentages and lost but that was more on Dave Morrision and the scouting corp at the time than KD or Hunter because the talent in play has proven to be solid so the strategy was solid..

Both of what?

 

[nuck]

Both of what?

The pick for trading down only happens if they trade down which they might not do but for the carrot of the Hawks taking Mrazek. With no trade down its just how much better is the guy they would have taken at 25 is vs Minten. Sorry I thought thats where you were going but it was just my rabbit hole. I do agree the value of the move is maybe a 3rd so that would be the cost of dumping Mrazek, not actually a 1st.

 

[egd27]

Andersen was Lou's choice for being the number one guy and you can pretty surely say, that it wasn't good choice.

It wasn't? Maybe look at the entirety of the contract rather than the final couple of injured months and cherry picking 2 or 3 games.

 

[deprw]

This is an unbelievable amount of delusion. NO, we lost in the 1st round.......AGAIN!

Last decade we are the only team that has played against the Stanley Cup finalist four times on first round. We have been there seven times and once we played against the Presidents Trophy winner.

On that time span LA Kings and Nashville Predators played against the SC finalist twice. Every other team has played against SC finalist once or not at all on first round.

Fun fact Columbus fell to finalist 2019. We've had pretty bad luck with our first round opponents.

 

[deprw]

It wasn't? Maybe look at the entirety of the contract rather than the final couple of injured months and cherry picking 2 or 3 games.

Well he played pretty badly in all game sevens he was here. His last two season weren't good at all and all those shenanigans during last season is just icing in the cake. We have been fairly critical towards our stars not being on top of their game in the playoffs. Andersen fall into that same category. He was also famous for giving up the first shot of the game, which cost as in few playoff games.

I know if he plays well next year with the Canes we gonna praise him like we did with Kadri, but I don't think were happy with four to six failed seasons if you make it only once. At least it seems like that commentary here isn't like "maybe he is good enough next year" rather than "sky is falling".

 

[Dekes For Days]

Last decade we are the only team that has played against the Stanley Cup finalist four times on first round. We have been there seven times and once we played against the Presidents Trophy winner.

On that time span LA Kings and Nashville Predators played against the SC finalist twice. Every other team has played against SC finalist once or not at all on first round.

Fun fact Columbus fell to finalist 2019. We've had pretty bad luck with our first round opponents.

The past 4 years, the only team to beat the team we lost to were the Stanley Cup Champions that year. Obviously, you want to win, but the "first round" stuff is so arbitrary.

 

[DarkKnight]

Winners win, losers rationalize why.

 

[kb]

Winners win, losers rationalize why.

So unless the team wins it all, no point in talking.

Mods, shut this place all down except for the Colorado board.

 

[kb]

Fun fact. Matt Murray had 3.2 Goals Saved Above Expected last season. (+3.2)

For comparison, not one Leaf goalie had a positive Goals Saved Above Expected number.

I think as a non-starting option, he's fine.

 

[deprw]

The past 4 years, the only team to beat the team we lost to were the Stanley Cup Champions that year. Obviously, you want to win, but the "first round" stuff is so arbitrary.

I think it's lots of things and in this magnitude also unnecessary added pressure. I'd assume team, front office and ownership are frustrated as us fans. That shouldn't be that hard.

Kind of fun that when you go back 20 seasons. On first round we have played against SC champion four times out of 9 season during that 20 years (-lockout, so 19). Nashville Predators four times out of 15 tries, so they're against SC champion 4/15 times. Any other team twice, once or none of the times. Usually those teams change quite much.

It's only luck, kind of odd, bit frustrating and hilarious. WTF really. We have been usually good team rather than last team pushing into big dance.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

Super late to the party on this, but even though Dubas moves a 1st yet again, and it rectified what ended up being a horrible mistake he made not even a year prior, I think it's a solid move to have only had to move down 13 spots to get rid of a $3.8M cap hit for the next two years with no retention.

Now, how that extra cap space is used will only be told with time...

 

[Maple Leaf]

We need a real goalie

 

[Stephen]

The full transaction looks like this:

To Toronto:

Matt Murray
38th overall in 2022 (Fraser Minten)
3rd
7th

To The Everybody Else

Petr Mrazek
25th overall in 2022 (Sam Rinzel)
Delta of +/- $800,000 in cap space

 

[bentharbs]

THIS TRADE MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE BASED ON WHAT DUBAS JUST DID.

 

[AvroArrow]

At the end of the day the Mrazek contract is gone and it only cost them 13 drafting spots!! View attachment 566700

Mrazek contract is gone AND WE GOT MINTEN for dumping him.

Sorry if this is too old of a bump, I just wanted to go through this thread for everyones mixed emotions at the time. Some people were thrilled to dump Mrazek, others were freaking out that we had to move back 13 spots.

How we feeling about this one now ? Dubas really hit a home run here, gotta give him credit. Looks like one of our best trades in recent memory.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Mrazek contract is gone AND WE GOT MINTEN for dumping him.

Sorry if this is too old of a bump, I just wanted to go through this thread for everyones mixed emotions at the time. Some people were thrilled to dump Mrazek, others were freaking out that we had to move back 13 spots.

How we feeling about this one now ? Dubas really hit a home run here, gotta give him credit. Looks like one of our best trades in recent memory.

Why did we sign Mrazek in the first place

 

[AvroArrow]

Why did we sign Mrazek in the first place

So we can acquire Minten

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Mrazek contract is gone AND WE GOT MINTEN for dumping him.

Sorry if this is too old of a bump, I just wanted to go through this thread for everyones mixed emotions at the time. Some people were thrilled to dump Mrazek, others were freaking out that we had to move back 13 spots.

How we feeling about this one now ? Dubas really hit a home run here, gotta give him credit. Looks like one of our best trades in recent memory.

It's still to early to tell, but it certainly looks promising.

I want to see what Minten can do in real games before I fully judge the trade but at this point he certainly looks like he can play

 

[Mess]

So we can acquire Minten

I know Chicago believes it was a great trade for them, because an awful Mrazek helped Chicago finish dead last overall and as a result Chicago successfully tanked to draft future generational player Connor Bedard.

Chicago gets Connor Bedard (as a result of Mrazek trade) & Sam Rinzel (player drafted with Leafs pick) and Leafs get Fraser Minten.

 

[Mess]

It's still to early to tell, but it certainly looks promising.

I want to see what Minten can do in real games before I fully judge the trade but at this point he certainly looks like he can play

Agreed too early to declare anything.

However the true test of this trade will be to see how all the other 13 players the Leafs were forced to pass on to move down turn out as NHLers in the future.

PS. Keep an eye on Buffalo forward Jiří Kulich the player I liked with the Leafs pick prior to the trade back move, who already had a strong 18 year old season in the AHL last year.

 

[conFABulator]

Agreed too early to declare anything.

However the true test of this trade will be to see how all the other 13 players the Leafs were forced to pass on to move down turn out as NHLers in the future.

View attachment 749626

PS. Keep an eye on Buffalo forward Jiří Kulich the player I liked with the Leafs pick prior to the trade back move, who already had a strong 18 year old season in the AHL last year.

View attachment 749630

I am not saying you're wrong and that is the list of 13 players relevant to this assessment, but here is what we will never know. What if the Leafs had Minten ranked at 25? They have been known go off the "first round ranking board" with their first round picks. Look at Easton Cowan. If the Leafs had to dump Murray and it cost us 28 OA and we got 42 back and drafted Cowan where he was ranked by the experts would we think of him as a lesser prospect for us.

If they wanted Minten at 25 then didn't dumping Mrazek cost them nothing? Or more accurately I guess it cost them whatever they could have got for traif g down 13 spots. What's that? A 4th a 5th? As in 25 OA for 38 OA + a late 4th or early 5th?

Against we will never know for sure of course but Minten becoming a player certainly makes this trade look pretty good.

 

[Stephen]

Agreed too early to declare anything.

However the true test of this trade will be to see how all the other 13 players the Leafs were forced to pass on to move down turn out as NHLers in the future.

View attachment 749626

PS. Keep an eye on Buffalo forward Jiří Kulich the player I liked with the Leafs pick prior to the trade back move, who already had a strong 18 year old season in the AHL last year.

View attachment 749630

Kulich has definitely rocketed up the prospect charts but luckily Minten has opened some eyes as well with his training camp.