Proposal: TOR - CAL

[HighLifeManIsHigh]

Nah, would rather keep Willy. Flames can have Marner instead for Lindholm, Hanifin and a 1st

Easy pass

 

[DingDongCharlie]

Only reason I brought up if Lindholm might want to test the FA market is because of this article from TSN: Backlund, Lindholm non-committal to future in Calgary following Flames’ disappointing season | TSN

I believe this was before Sutter was let go and after many players rescinded their trade request.

As for the original proposal I'd say Toronto would have to add. Now even if Lindholm wants to test free agency trading him for another pending UFA who may or not not be willing to forgo testing free agency just doesn't make sense.

 

[DingDongCharlie]

Rebuild. Trade him for futures.


Are you familiar with Calgary?

Conroy was the assistant GM and spoke out publicly on that issue already and stated they won't put themselves in that position again. Now that Conroy is the man, Flames fans are probably pretty confident that isn't something that will happen this season.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Marner for Lindholm and a defenceman would be an interesting swap in my mind.

Challenge is... Hanifin is also a UFA, which puts a ton of risk on Toronto if trading MM for a couple of impending UFAs, and Andersson is probably viewed as a building block in Calgary.

Maybe you do something like Marner for Lindholm & Mangiapane as the NHL pieces moving.

Calgary's needs really don't include a 2nd pass first 10M+ winger. Especially at the cost of our 1C

 

[KeziaTML]

Calgary's needs really don't include a 2nd pass first 10M+ winger. Especially at the cost of our 1C

You know he scored 30 goals last year, right?

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

You know he scored 30 goals last year, right?

Yes, that doesn't contradict my point

 

[blankall]

And who plays center for Calgary? Calgary just has a bunch of skilled wingers with no one to center their top line?

 

[Maurice of Orange]

Rebuild. Trade him for futures.


Are you familiar with Calgary?

No I’ve never been to Calgary but I heard it’s not to bad in the summer.

I know they have the Calgary Stampede Rodeo and that the city hosted the 1988 Olympics, I also know that Calgary is the biggest city in the province of Alberta but other then that I don’t know much else about the City of Calgary, except that it’s kinda like Texas with cowboys and rodeo’s.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

No I’ve never been to Calgary but I heard it’s not to bad in the summer.

I know they have the Calgary Stampede Rodeo and that the city hosted the 1988 Olympics, I also know that Calgary is the biggest city in the province of Alberta but other then that I don’t know much else about the City of Calgary, except that it’s kinda like Texas with cowboys and rodeo’s.

I mean that Calgary doesn't have the greatest track record in terms of making the most of their assets.

you said "Calgary isn’t going to just let their best player walk out the door without exploring the trade market" when they have a pretty poor track record on that (Johnny Gaudreau).

They have a pretty terrible track record in terms of asset management:
- Let TJ Brodie walk for nothing
- Traded Sam Bennett for a 2nd & a prospect
- Held on to Sean Monahan waaaay too long, and eventually had to pay a 1st to get rid of him
- Traded away Tkachuk and then signed the returning players to long term high dollar deals before they ever played a game for the Flames
- Signed over the hill players like James Neal and Troy Brouwer to long term contracts that are still handicapping the roster to this day

It's kind of funny how much the current SCF Panthers roster is reliant on former Flames. Bennett and Tkachuk are obvious guys, but don't forget Ryan Lomberg plays a very important role on that team as well and is pretty underrated. From an earlier thread:

Fun fact - did you know that Ryan Lomberg ranks 28th in 5v5 goals/60 among LWs over the last 2 years? That's better than guys like Panarin, Stutzle, and Perron, and right behind guys like Marchand and Hyman.

The difference is those guys get to play with actual talent, while Lomberg's most common linemates in the last two years have been:

- The ghost of Eric Staal
- Patrik Hornqvist's corpse
- Eetu Luostarinen

He's also 19th in shots/60 (right between Hall and Kaprizov) and 23rd in 5v5 expected goals/60 in that same span.

And the Flames let him walk for nothing as well.

So yeah, the Flames may very well lose Lindholm for nothing if they are on the bubble next year.

 

[McJedi]

Nah, would rather keep Willy. Flames can have Marner instead for Lindholm, Hanifin and a 1st

Take out the 1st and retain $2mm and that sounds like a more seasonable offer.

 

[Flamesgod]

I mean that Calgary doesn't have the greatest track record in terms of making the most of their assets.

you said "Calgary isn’t going to just let their best player walk out the door without exploring the trade market" when they have a pretty poor track record on that (Johnny Gaudreau).

They have a pretty terrible track record in terms of asset management:
- Let TJ Brodie walk for nothing
- Traded Sam Bennett for a 2nd & a prospect
- Held on to Sean Monahan waaaay too long, and eventually had to pay a 1st to get rid of him
- Traded away Tkachuk and then signed the returning players to long term high dollar deals before they ever played a game for the Flames
- Signed over the hill players like James Neal and Troy Brouwer to long term contracts that are still handicapping the roster to this day

It's kind of funny how much the current SCF Panthers roster is reliant on former Flames. Bennett and Tkachuk are obvious guys, but don't forget Ryan Lomberg plays a very important role on that team as well and is pretty underrated. From an earlier thread:



And the Flames let him walk for nothing as well.

So yeah, the Flames may very well lose Lindholm for nothing if they are on the bubble next year.

You’re getting confused. The problem is Toronto’s now. Because he’s GM of Toronto. Conroy already talked about how you can’t lose assets for nothing like they did with Gaudreau.

 

[mydnyte]

not sure why people think Toronto adds, Lindholm had one good season on par with Nylanders last, who has gotten progressively better every season, and is younger, and CAN play C, though, not ideal, since he hasnt done it regularly for a long time.
...and please remind me, who were Lindholm's wingers in his career best season (that also had career best seasons)?

 

[HighLifeMan]

not sure why people think Toronto adds, Lindholm had one good season on par with Nylanders last, who has gotten progressively better every season, and is younger, and CAN play C, though, not ideal, since he hasnt done it regularly for a long time.
...and please remind me, who were Lindholm's wingers in his career best season (that also had career best seasons)?

An 18 month age difference is negligible at best.

Lindholm IS a center, Nylander isn't.
Lindholm is a significantly better 200 foot player (it's not close)
Lindholm is a phenomenal penalty killer
Lindholm's caphit is 2.1M dollars cheaper

Oh ya Lindholm also had a 78 pont season in 2018-19, so this "one good season" talk is nonsense.

It's also rich to bring up the linemate argument when 90% of Nylander's five on five time came alongside Matthews or Tavares, where as Lindholm was slotted alongside and responsible for Toffoli and Dube having career seasons.

 

[Boondock]

Might have seen this on the board already not sure.. but

To Calgary: William Nylander
To Toronto: Elias Lindholm

Simple 1 for 1 swap, both players are entering the last year of there deals, gives Calgary a good winger and a chance to resign him, while Lindholm might want to test FA/go to another team. Toronto gets back a 2nd line center to be able to move JT to the wing as he's too slow for 2nd line C and save's Toronto some money now and possibility in the future, and might not want to pay the money Nylander is going to want. (I'd imagine Lindholm is going to cost less to resign then Nylander).

1 - Lindholm is a C and is signed for $2+ less cap than Nylander.
2 - you can't speculate that Lindholm will want to test FA but also state they have a chance to re-sign Nylander. At this point both players have the exact same likelihood of re-signing. This was a red herring, intended to apparently decrease Lindholm's value while artificially pumping Nylanders value.
3 - If Toronto doesn't want to pay Nylander what his next contract will be, why would Calgary?
4 - If Lindholm might cost less to re-sign than Nylander, why on earth would Calgary want to move the less expensive player playing the more important position?
5 - Calgary's team has Huberdeau (10.5), Mangiapane (5.8), Coleman (4.9), Toffoli (4.25), Dube (2.3), Coronato and Ruzicka - all signed and all wingers. If they move Lindholm they have Backlund (34yrs old) and Kadri (32 yrs old) as their only natural C's. You realistically think the Flames want another high priced winger to replace their #1 C?

 

[MisterT]

Toronto adds, now.

Lol. No they don’t.

 

[biturbo19]

Moving Tavares to the Wing isn't going to fix anything. It's just going to exacerbate his shortcomings as a skater.

 

[Haatley]

I mean that Calgary doesn't have the greatest track record in terms of making the most of their assets.

you said "Calgary isn’t going to just let their best player walk out the door without exploring the trade market" when they have a pretty poor track record on that (Johnny Gaudreau).

They have a pretty terrible track record in terms of asset management:
- Let TJ Brodie walk for nothing
- Traded Sam Bennett for a 2nd & a prospect
- Held on to Sean Monahan waaaay too long, and eventually had to pay a 1st to get rid of him
- Traded away Tkachuk and then signed the returning players to long term high dollar deals before they ever played a game for the Flames
- Signed over the hill players like James Neal and Troy Brouwer to long term contracts that are still handicapping the roster to this day

It's kind of funny how much the current SCF Panthers roster is reliant on former Flames. Bennett and Tkachuk are obvious guys, but don't forget Ryan Lomberg plays a very important role on that team as well and is pretty underrated. From an earlier thread:



And the Flames let him walk for nothing as well.

So yeah, the Flames may very well lose Lindholm for nothing if they are on the bubble next year.

Ryan Lomberg? LOL

Over 180 games ayed and 23 goals. This is the guy we should be concerned about? Because he's above Panarin in 5 on 5 goals per 60. This is what we care about.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Ryan Lomberg? LOL

Over 180 games ayed and 23 goals. This is the guy we should be concerned about? Because he's above Panarin in 5 on 5 goals per 60. This is what we care about.

He can't control his deployment, but he makes the most of the time he gets. He's a very underrated player - there's a reason he scores goals at such a high rate despite playing with terrible linemates. Dude can flat out fly and has one of the quicker snapshots in the league.



Wrist shot snipe:


Nice goal showing his speed and skill:


Obviously everyone knows about the energy, toughness, and intensity he brings, but his offensive game is really underrated. He was a PPG player during his last stint in the AHL.

He's an important part of this Panthers team, a real "identity" player.

Kind of funny how much the 3 former Flames have transformed the Panthers identity from a bunch of skilled pushovers to one of the tougher teams in the league (Bennett gets the most credit here, Florida's identity changed the moment he joined the team). That Flames trio sets the tone for the Panthers.

Still can't believe Calgary couldn't figure out that Sam Bennett should have been playing as a top 6 center with alongside guys like Tkachuk or Gaudreau. Lindholm, Bennett, and Backlund would have given them arguably the best all around center punch in the league. In addition to having the best LW depth in the league.


Look at the top 9 they could have run with for like 3 years:
Gaudreau - Lindholm - Monahan
Tkachuk - Bennett - Dube
Mangiapane - Backlund - Frolik

They could have run those lines for years, and had a solid top 4 D group to go with it... they could have won a cup.

 

[Magic Man]

When I look at the two teams, the clearest one for one trade I can see is Brodie for Tanev. 1 year left for each of them, 500K apart. Originally Tanev was signed to replace Brodie and he has done a decent job, as has Brodie in Toronto. I'm not sure the trade would make any real difference. But, considering the management changes, maybe a minor tweak like that is more realistic.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Might have seen this on the board already not sure.. but

To Calgary: William Nylander
To Toronto: Elias Lindholm

Simple 1 for 1 swap, both players are entering the last year of there deals, gives Calgary a good winger and a chance to resign him, while Lindholm might want to test FA/go to another team. Toronto gets back a 2nd line center to be able to move JT to the wing as he's too slow for 2nd line C and save's Toronto some money now and possibility in the future, and might not want to pay the money Nylander is going to want. (I'd imagine Lindholm is going to cost less to resign then Nylander).

There’s another active thread about how Treliving/Shanahan doesn’t want to trade the core 4.

There are stories of rift between the former gm and Shanahan regarding trading one of them.

There was a story of ho how much Shanahan likes Nylander.

So what’s the point of this thread? Or do you think it’s realistic in spite of everything that has been reported?

 

[Funk21]

Ehh..... I dont do it from Calgarys perspective. Nylander for Hanifin is closer.

That would be a disastrous trade from a Flames perspective. Personally I wouldn’t be looking to add a player like Hannafin, guy needs a new contract and not exactly the player we need on our blue line. Personally if you are trading Nylander it’s for a player like Kakko or LaFreniere (young and cost controlled and in need of a fresh start) with upside. Then use the difference to sign a player like Bertuzzi or Barbashev. Ideally I would try to add Gavrikov to our blueline. Big, physical stay at home type to push McCabe down and allow Liljegren be that PMD on that pairing.

 

[TBF1972]

What if it was Marner for Lindholm?

Marner (10.9m) and Huberdeau (10.5m) doesn't seem a smart way to build a contender.

 

[seanlinden]

Calgary's needs really don't include a 2nd pass first 10M+ winger. Especially at the cost of our 1C

Conventionally.... you'd be correct.

However, if Lindholm wants out, then having a couple of high end pass-first wingers may make it easier for the flames to fill the C positions.

 

[Unbiased Fan]

Ehh..... I dont do it from Calgarys perspective. Nylander for Hanifin is closer.

I’d take Lindholm over Toffoli AND Hanfin as a package as a leafs fan Toffoli and Hanfin 2 for 1 for Nylander would be the minimum I’d take but I don’t want to trade Nylander and I don’t expect Calgary to be interested in paying that price.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Conventionally.... you'd be correct.

However, if Lindholm wants out, then having a couple of high end pass-first wingers may make it easier for the flames to fill the C positions.

Seems like a worse version of Minnesota.

Assuming we are 100% ignoring the cap here (otherwise this trade would be borderline impossible) that really doesn't help the Flames improve as a roster. Championship teams are always built from the center down.

If Lindholm isn't willing to re-sign (which nothing has said he won't or isn't interested), Calgary is way better off selling a lot of the expiring contracts for a boat of futures, tanking for 2-3 years to get some high potential prospects, then jumping right back on the track like LA did