Rumor: TOR and John Tavares close to a deal: 3 years at 7 million

[I am Canadian]

I hope Trev reads this, before making Mitch an offer.

Marner is in a much easier position to leave Toronto. I agree with your sentiment though, nobody can offer Mitch the 8th year and if he wants to play in Toronto he needs to sacrifice max value.

 

[Confucius]

Marner is in a much easier position to leave Toronto. I agree with your sentiment though, nobody can offer Mitch the 8th year and if he wants to play in Toronto he needs to sacrifice max value.

I
Don’t know if it would be easier. Just moved in to new digs, over the next 7 or 8 years, kids will sure appreciate having grandma around… but we will see.

And does any Canadian want to move to the U S Today?

 

[ITM]

Failure to admit ones mistakes. Shanahan or the board has forced something from the shadows. I am willing to bet it was Bell and LarryT.

Either Dubas had no common sense or Shanahan OR IT WAS FROM ABOVE.

I suspect it was decision making from each side; Deference to Dubas, pressure from above for other considerations other than those purely reflected by the on-ice performance of the club.

We look at the Islanders and can say: Lamoriello might not have been the answer after all. We obviously understand why Babcock had to leave despite his previous success elsewhere. But before those men were brought in, we had every right (as did Shanahan) that those were significant industry leading moves. Would anyone say that those men would go on to have middling to no career success at the time of their hiring?

Dubas showed signs of being exceptional. The AHL championship didn't help and neither did pressure from Colorado in wanting to apparently hire Dubas.

All in all, I think our club has been faced with some curious circumstances that feel quieter now, but still in the mode of a club that's successful in the regular season but a scavenger when it comes to acquiring the truly valuable playoffs assets that other franchises aren't willing to part with according to the means we have...thanks to previous management's mismanagement.

Is plausible deniability as professional management skill? I think so. But not because its the circumstances aren't plain to see, but because its hard building a championship caliber team in our market, which is unlike any other market.

The best our team has looked has been when Matthews was out. And I think that's indicative of the type of mistake being made, not unlike a Chinese finger trap. Because it's unreasonable to jettison the club's greatest historic talent, right? It's an unthinkable move to rebuild on the fly because the fallout from making a mistake would be unacceptable.

That said, Treliving's tenure as a Maple Leaf GM has been stabilizing. These playoffs and July 1, 2025 obviously represent a critical juncture for the club. But as New York (the Islanders) and Pittsburgh demonstrate...It could be worse.

 

[Doc300c]

The post says "around 7M"

If we see 3x 6.5 can you live with it?
Where is the point of comfortability?

We know it can't be below 6 based on multiple factors. So do we really have 17 pages for less than a mil?

I'd be happy if he comes in at 6.5 x 3 - that's acceptable for 3 years even if he becomes 3C in year 2/3

 

[All Mod Cons]

View attachment 979419

Pretty perfect summation of that guy.

 

[ITM]

Pretty perfect summation of that guy.

Oof! Receipts!

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

Not that I agree with 99% of that posters claims

But the Tkachuk trade looked poor for FLO initially by a lot of folks on here. I thought it would be a terrible move for FLO ajd said so on first page of main board thread. Obviously have been proven wrong since then, but that is mostly on Huberdeau for stopping being an elite producer after being dealt

Huberdeau had been a 90+ winger for 4 years with a 115 pt contract year. Was only in late 20s and playoff wise he had produced similarly to Tkachuk at that point (both were disapointing)

Weegar was a great #3D who since has become a top 2D.

1st rounder was expected late 20s and they got some random prospect as a toss in as well.

Now Tkachuk contract wasn't an overpay then or moving forward since he was expected to be a 85-100 pt winger which at 9.5M would be great value. That part of his claim is/was wrong.

Huberdeau falling off right from get go killed the trade for the Flames.

If flames had 80-90 pt Huberdeau they are a playoff team for 2022-2023, 2023-2024 and this season which would make it a good deal for both teams since Tkachuk was walking out and had quit on the flames.

What needs to be learned from this deal is that Marner/Nylander are the huberdeau's in a deal and not a Tkachuk.

Too old, too expensive, and no more upside to improve consistency and production in playoffs.

We missed several chances to deak them both.

2018 holdout and 2023 summer for Nylander

2021 summer, 2023 summer for marner

Held on and likely will be extending marner soon to saddle us with the two of them until mid 2030

A lot of people here also like to think they're smarter than everyone despite being wrong about everything.

For Calgary it was impressive how much they got for someone who was 100% leaving, but that's it. Most knew Tkachuk was a different level than the fairies Florida traded away, others who don't actually watch (stat nerds) were impressed by the numbers.

But the most egregious part is his comments about the contract. They locked him up to a bargain deal for his entire prime.

Years 25-32 @ 9.5M per.

This was a bargain on day 1 especially when their direct competitors sign albatross contracts like Matthews, Marner, and Nylander. Contracts that Some Folks tell us are good despite everything pointing to otherwise.

 

[I am Canadian]

I
Don’t know if it would be easier. Just moved in to new digs, over the next 7 or 8 years, kids will sure appreciate having grandma around… but we will see.

And does any Canadian want to move to the U S Today?

Objectively he has no kids, would definitely be easier. The US is a nice place for the ultra rich let's not get it twisted.

I hear where you are coming from, I wouldn't want to be there

 

[ToneDog]

A lot of people here also like to think they're smarter than everyone despite being wrong about everything.

For Calgary it was impressive how much they got for someone who was 100% leaving, but that's it. Most knew Tkachuk was a different level than the fairies Florida traded away, others who don't actually watch (stat nerds) were impressed by the numbers.

But the most egregious part is his comments about the contract. They locked him up to a bargain deal for his entire prime.

Years 25-32 @ 9.5M per.

This was a bargain on day 1 especially when their direct competitors sign albatross contracts like Matthews, Marner, and Nylander. Contracts that Some Folks tell us are good despite everything pointing to otherwise.

Easy to see Tre did well gien the circumstances if you are not bias.

 

[AvroArrow]

I
Don’t know if it would be easier. Just moved in to new digs, over the next 7 or 8 years, kids will sure appreciate having grandma around… but we will see.

And does any Canadian want to move to the U S Today?

Texas is great. No income tax, the houses are like a quarter of the price of Toronto, significantly better weather. I got cousins in Dallas, they always tell us to move down there lol.

 

[notbias]

Easy to see Tre did well gien the circumstances if you are not bias.

"ignore the results, look at the expected results"

A lot of people here also like to think they're smarter than everyone despite being wrong about everything.

For Calgary it was impressive how much they got for someone who was 100% leaving, but that's it. Most knew Tkachuk was a different level than the fairies Florida traded away, others who don't actually watch (stat nerds) were impressed by the numbers.

But the most egregious part is his comments about the contract. They locked him up to a bargain deal for his entire prime.

Years 25-32 @ 9.5M per.

This was a bargain on day 1 especially when their direct competitors sign albatross contracts like Matthews, Marner, and Nylander. Contracts that Some Folks tell us are good despite everything pointing to otherwise.

Look into his contract and why he was bridged, which led to all this.

The uninformed calling others uninformed is funny.

Just so you don't have to look it up, keeping Frolik is the reason he signed a bridge, he apparently wanted a longer contract.

 

[NVious]

The post says "around 7M"

If we see 3x 6.5 can you live with it?
Where is the point of comfortability?

We know it can't be below 6 based on multiple factors. So do we really have 17 pages for less than a mil?

I'd be happy if he comes in at 6.5 x 3 - that's acceptable for 3 years even if he becomes 3C in year 2/3

The guy performed 4+ million dollars worse in the playoffs while being paid like a top 5 NHL player and having the pedigree of "almost being Crosby" since Juniors.

His playoff g/pg are 36th since joining the Leafs and his pts/pg are 44th (both for playoffs).

Since he f***ed us out of 4+ million, failed spectacularly and failed at mentoring the next generation into something he wasn't (a winner), it's time for him to give some of the money back and help the team out.

Why do we owe him any courtesy?

He didn't win
He didn't do anything individually
He didn't positively influence the young overpaid soft losers (like him)
He failed spectacularly in the playoffs

AND he did this while being paid like he's a top 5 player in the NHL.

If he wants 7+, go to Detroit I'm sure Yzerman would love him.

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

Exactly.

The Leafs are not a serious franchise and everyone with their head out of the sand knows it.

I don't subscribe to this belief. I remember the barren years of 2005 - 2013 and from 2014 - 2016. With consistent playoff appearances eventually they will break through, maybe not with this core, but with a slightly different one.

 

[thewave]

I don't subscribe to this belief. I remember the barren years of 2005 - 2013 and from 2014 - 2016. With consistent playoff appearances eventually they will break through, maybe not with this core, but with a slightly different one.

At this rate of progress I am with you. 50 more years isn't that long. Just keep the course, trust the plan. We got this. Lol

 

[hamzarocks]

A lot of people here also like to think they're smarter than everyone despite being wrong about everything.

For Calgary it was impressive how much they got for someone who was 100% leaving, but that's it. Most knew Tkachuk was a different level than the fairies Florida traded away, others who don't actually watch (stat nerds) were impressed by the numbers.

But the most egregious part is his comments about the contract. They locked him up to a bargain deal for his entire prime.

Years 25-32 @ 9.5M per.

This was a bargain on day 1 especially when their direct competitors sign albatross contracts like Matthews, Marner, and Nylander. Contracts that Some Folks tell us are good despite everything pointing to otherwise.

Yeah I can admit was super wrong about that trade and opened up my eyes a bit on our core guys, their entitlment, overstated sense of worth and overall failure to produce.

Really leaves a sour taste in your mouth being a leaf fan lol

 

[Beneven Stanciano]

The guy performed 4+ million dollars worse in the playoffs while being paid like a top 5 NHL player and having the pedigree of "almost being Crosby" since Juniors.

His playoff g/pg are 36th since joining the Leafs and his pts/pg are 44th (both for playoffs).

Since he f***ed us out of 4+ million, failed spectacularly and failed at mentoring the next generation into something he wasn't (a winner), it's time for him to give some of the money back and help the team out.

Why do we owe him any courtesy?

He didn't win
He didn't do anything individually
He didn't positively influence the young overpaid soft losers (like him)
He failed spectacularly in the playoffs

AND he did this while being paid like he's a top 5 player in the NHL.

If he wants 7+, go to Detroit I'm sure Yzerman would love him.

Why would Yzerman love him? Detroit is on the upswing they don't need anchors.

 

[hotpaws]

Who is terrified? I'd call it objective evaluation. He's still the best C available, and if he'll come at somewhat of a discount, it's probably worth it. Then find a second good C to upgrade our forwards overall. I believe C is a critical position on the team, far more so than wing. If I'm letting someone go, it's going to be Marner. Far more cap, and I think you can improve the team by paying two good guys, for the one he has.

The reality on the strategy of just letting people go, is you then hope you sign one of the other guys, and in your case, you are focused on Bennett. Suppose we let Tavares go, and Bennett signs elsewhere... and while we are focused on Bennett, Granlund goes elsewhere too. Then what are our choices? Dvorak, Kerfoot, Gourde? Is that who you want for 2C.

It's all well and good to have a desire to just make change, because you want change, but it also has to make the team better, and have a realistic chance of being pulled off. I like depth at C... if you asked me.. I'd take Tavares AND Bennett. Over Bennett and Dvorak(?) I'd take Tavares and Gourde, over Gourde and Kerfoot (?) I'd take Tavares and Duchene.... or even Duchene and Bennett.... but the thing is, you are hoping to sign someone in a competitive Free Agency, and you are competing against 31 other teams. Just because we want someone, doesn't mean we get them. Tavares, if we want him, he's here... no risk in that at all. The key, is signing him to a low enough cap hit, hopefully through deferred cap, that we can sign any one of the better names listed in this post..

That's the thing, it doesn't necessarily have to be either or, it can be both, if we can find a way to make the cap work.

I'll give you a little objective evaluation

-produces at a 50 pt pace in the playoff with us
-his offensive production is dependent/inflated by his play driving wingers
-mediocre defensively
-plays more like a winger than a C
-is ageing and further declining
-the team has accomplished nothing with him in the playoffs

but hey lets overlook everything other than what the highest paid comp's signed for (which for the most part turned out to be poor signings) and ignore others like what ROR got and then spin signing JT at 7m as a discount , lol

 

[ULF_55]

If Marner and Tavares come back at 20M combined does anyone actually believe they can win a cup in the last 3 years of Matthews?

Are you asking if they can, or will?

We have historical evidence marner and Tavares (the players you referenced) have failed continuously in the playoffs in Toronto.

Tavares has been to the 2nd. round twice in his previous 15 NHL seasons.
Once with Islanders and once with Leafs.

I don't believe any of his Islander teams were top clubs.

Both players are very good, but they share the team failures with the teammates, they are not alone in that failure.

To this point neither one has shown an ability to carry a team, like one might see from Draisaitl and McDavid, Eichel and Stone, ...

I'd bring back both, but the rest of the team has to be changed to expect anything different.

 

[ashs]

get er done, he's clutch for us.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

He would be better off saying we are going a different direction after this and watch the numbers come down and the groveling ensue.

Marner shit the bed. His value just tanked

Mitch's value hasn't tanked, he's performed exactly as he has performed year after year in pressure situations. They already rewarded him with $11m, next deal starts at $13m like it or not.

 

[I am Canadian]

Are you asking if they can, or will?

We have historical evidence marner and Tavares (the players you referenced) have failed continuously in the playoffs in Toronto.

Tavares has been to the 2nd. round twice in his previous 15 NHL seasons.
Once with Islanders and once with Leafs.

I don't believe any of his Islander teams were top clubs.

Both players are very good, but they share the team failures with the teammates, they are not alone in that failure.

To this point neither one has shown an ability to carry a team, like one might see from Draisaitl and McDavid, Eichel and Stone, ...

I'd bring back both, but the rest of the team has to be changed to expect anything different.

Marner 13
Tavares 7
Nylander 11.5
Matthews 13.25

Still about 45-50% of the cap for 4 players, which is basically what we have had over the last 7 years.

I don't see how the rest of the team can be meaningfully changed. If we sign Marner and Tavares we are going all in on the plan wasn't broken and these stars will come through.

 

[Fogelhund]

I'll give you a little objective evaluation

-produces at a 50 pt pace in the playoff with us
-his offensive production is dependent/inflated by his play driving wingers
-mediocre defensively
-plays more like a winger than a C
-is ageing and further declining
-the team has accomplished nothing with him in the playoffs

but hey lets overlook everything other than what the highest paid comp's signed for (which for the most part turned out to be poor signings) and ignore others like what ROR got and then spin signing JT at 7m as a discount , lol

Claims to do an objective evaluation, then uses mostly subjective descriptions.

There is no proof his production is dependent on others.
Plays more like a winger: What?
Declining? By putting up more points than last year? Better all round play? Declining?
Yes, the team has accomplished nothing with him in the playoffs.. but the same could be said of every other player... I mean, let's just get rid of them all, just for fun.
It just seems you've got Tavares hate in your head, and can't do objective, or subjective. I think you'll be hard pressed to find that I've suggested him signing at 7mil is a discount....

 

[ULF_55]

Marner 13
Tavares 7
Nylander 11.5
Matthews 13.25

Still about 45-50% of the cap for 4 players, which is basically what we have had over the last 7 years.

I don't see how the rest of the team can be meaningfully changed. If we sign Marner and Tavares we are going all in on the plan wasn't broken and these stars will come through.

I'd be okay if they walked, but Leafs have zero control of these assets come July 1st.

I don't even see trading their rights being an option.
I know the argument about sign and trade, to get that 8th. year.

Eighth year for Tavares is meaningless.

Eighth year for marner might have some value, but do you really see marner settling for a contract against next year's Cap when his buddy took a short term deal to maximize his income? I'm not sure either way?

It really could come down to this year's playoff performance for marner. If he can show up and be a factor in a semi successful post-season it might open more doors for him. Right now teams might be hesitant if winning in the playoffs is a key attribute they're looking to buy.

Now here is where I'm all in at this year's deadline, for player(s) with term and missing attributes.
Every year we know who the top 3 forwards are going to be.
Spending a boatload to get a cost contained, long term asset to push up against those 3 forwards or don't bother. Leafs have gone the depth player (perhaps except O'Reilly) and they just don't make a difference. So giving away assets for more depth ... not interested.

 

[keonsbitterness]

I'll give you a little objective evaluation

-produces at a 50 pt pace in the playoff with us

By that rationale, you shouldn't want any of our core back.

 

[NVious]

Claims to do an objective evaluation, then uses mostly subjective descriptions.

There is no proof his production is dependent on others.
Plays more like a winger: What?
Declining? By putting up more points than last year? Better all round play? Declining?
Yes, the team has accomplished nothing with him in the playoffs.. but the same could be said of every other player... I mean, let's just get rid of them all, just for fun.
It just seems you've got Tavares hate in your head, and can't do objective, or subjective. I think you'll be hard pressed to find that I've suggested him signing at 7mil is a discount....

He got paid the 5th highest contract in the NHL.

Since he joined the Leafs, in the playoffs among active players he ranks 36th in goals per game and 44th in points per game.

Why do we need to pay a proven loser who failed spectacularly with one of the most talented groups in the NHL to do anything meaningful market value?

We don't and we shouldn't. He could go from zero to hero if he took a massive discount, but he's not serious about winning or his love for Toronto so he won't which is the horrible example he set that now Matthews/Nylander/Marner replicate and uphold.