Rumor: TOR and John Tavares close to a deal: 3 years at 7 million

[ToneDog]

What financial impact do you think those two walking would cause?


What's his vision? I've struggled to read and articulate it.

Opposite of the vision the rookie sold Shanahan. Small, soft. skill and weak goaltending does not win in the playoffs.

 

[REALTALK81]

I would do 5 -5.5 tops for 4 years. Assuming the last of those years, he won't be performing as well

 

[Americanadian]

If Marner and Tavares come back at 20M combined does anyone actually believe they can win a cup in the last 3 years of Matthews?

 

[ToneDog]

"Better Options"

Bennett, Granlund and Gourde. None are "better" than Tavares right now.

Bennett has some nice intangibles, but both he and Granlund will sign for more than Tavares, and provide less. Bennett's game is going to deteriorate fairly quickly, playing a heavy style, and Granlund is only 17 months younger than Tavares. Gourde's game is already deteriorating.

If the Leafs can find a way to have Tavares cap hit around $5.xx, with some deferred money making it like $7mil, there is no replacement that will be better, and cheaper.

This better is a fantasy.

Now, we just want to go in a different direction, even if that makes us theoretically worse... ya, sure.. .that's a story. But I do believe, if somehow management sees we need to change directions, C isn't the position to do that, winger probably is.

Trading for a #2C is another option. $5m is a better AVV for Tavares but the question is, can you win a SC with JT as your $2C? I think not.

Why does every move off this loser core have to make us theoretically worse? Did Zito's move off Huberdeau and Weegar make them worse?

If Marner and Tavares come back at 20M combined does anyone actually believe they can win a cup in the last 3 years of Matthews?

Yes they can win multiple Molson Cups?

 

[ToneDog]

Looking for better option... okay but can goes both way...

Better option, wich option will really be better and want to play in Toronto? One of city in bottom 10-15 of a majority of NHL player...

Toronto is not a florida team who can let player gone for nothing and convince easily someone else to step in, so you can't hope working the same way.

Try your chance can also mean great chance to get no fish at the end...

So let's keep doing the same thing and hope for different results? There is no harm in looking for a better option and circling back to JT if you cannot find one. JT came to Toronto because he chose family over more money. Odds are he is not leaving now that he has a family here unless you try to significantly lowball him. Leafs are not doing that.

 

[Metroid]

If Marner and Tavares come back at 20M combined does anyone actually believe they can win a cup in the last 3 years of Matthews?

I'd put money down on the chances are the exact same if we move on from Marner or Tavares.

Would be much sweeter to win with marner and Tavares then someone else. At least in my mind.

 

[notbias]

if you look at it objectively you'd realize JT like Stamkos last couple of seasons in Tampa was the product of playing with elite offensive players so why should the team grossly overpay him again ?

the f***ing turd does nothing but hang around the crease slot waiting to be fed so i have no idea what people see when they watch the game , then comes the playoffs where he does nothing but hey that's okay too since some people it seems believe the world come to an end if we don't give him another overpayment

We. no longer want players who go to the net? We want perimeter players in this thread now?

 

[thusk]

So let's keep doing the same thing and hope for different results? There is no harm in looking for a better option and circling back to JT if you cannot find one. JT came to Toronto because he chose family over more money. Odds are he is not leaving now that he has a family here unless you try to significantly lowball him. Leafs are not doing that.

You can make all the change you want, if you come back in playing and atill nobody between Matthews, Marner and Nylander raising their game... Whatever the change you will make, that's will change nothing.

You can exemple let marner goes and sign someone else, If Matrhews and Nylander still doesn't raise their game in playoff. Result will always stay the same.

Changing everything is not what whonwill move 5he needle. The day, leafs stars will be really ready to raise their game, at this moment they will have a better chance to reach their goal exactly like it was the case in Washington for years. It's theonly way

 

[ToneDog]

You can make all the change you want, if you come back in playing and atill nobody between Matthews, Marner and Nylander raising their game... Whatever the change you will make, that's will change nothing.

You can exemple let marner goes and sign someone else, If Matrhews and Nylander still doesn't raise their game in playoff. Result will always stay the same.

Changing everything is not what whonwill move 5he needle. The day, leafs stars will be really ready to raise their game, at this moment they will have a better chance to reach their goal exactly like it was the case in Washington for years. It's theonly way

You are not wrong about the stars needing to raise their games in order to get more playoff success. Which makes me think, why bother making any changes at the TDL or in the summer if you are simply going to continue to run them back and hope they figure it out.

 

[Americanadian]

I'd put money down on the chances are the exact same if we move on from Marner or Tavares.

Would be much sweeter to win with marner and Tavares then someone else. At least in my mind.

I’d 10x rather see them win with players who haven’t held up the team for every last dollar at every step of the way.

The team has given the 4 players (5 with Rielly) everything and in return the players have given the fans 1 series win out of 9. Something that 25 other teams have accomplished over the same time frame (27 if you count the COVID qualifying round that the Leas lost). Why would it be sweeter to see them move forward with this core than go another direction?

 

[Metroid]

I’d 10x rather see them win with players who haven’t held up the team for every last dollar at every step of the way.

You think the players we bring in to replace them will take a discount??

 

[Americanadian]

You think the players we bring in to replace them will take a discount??

I’d rather pay market value for new players than pay at or above market value for the same players who have continuously failed the team and fans.

 

[thewave]

I’d rather pay market value for new players than pay at or above market value for the same players who have continuously failed the team and fans.

Exactly lol

Common sense right there

 

[Metroid]

I’d rather pay market value for new players than pay at or above market value for the same players who have continuously failed the team and fans.

I think with MLSE being what they are, we either get Marner and Tavares as "overpayments". Or new guys that will be deemed "overpayed" one week into the new season
I Get wanting changes, unfortunately, we will win or lose with MLSE/Rogers playing it safe. Gotta love that corporatism.

 

[Fogelhund]

Trading for a #2C is another option. $5m is a better AVV for Tavares but the question is, can you win a SC with JT as your $2C? I think not.

Why does every move off this loser core have to make us theoretically worse? Did Zito's move off Huberdeau and Weegar make them worse?


Yes they can win multiple Molson Cups?

Zito brought in the better player. That was understood at the time. Who are you getting that is better than JT, for JT? For that matter, using what we do have available, who are you bringing in who is better?

The best hope, is to have a 2A/B type situation.... get Tavares at a reasonable rate, and hope you can sign one of the Free Agents to a price that works for us. Maybe you get lucky and Duchene decides to play near home for a couple of seasons.... sure, he's older and retirement contract and all... but he's still productive. He'd be affordable, even with extending Tavares.

I don't think Bennett, or Granlund will be affordable, but maybe Gourde... I'm not the biggest fan of Gourde, though @thusk is. As a Free Agent, I don't mind it... as a trade... meh.

Outside of that, it's gambling on a trade... I think Cozens is on the radar, not sure we can afford him. Krebs is more affordable, but it's a gamble he blossoms out of Buffalo. I'd take that gamble.

Morgan Geekie is a UFA, but he's hardly someone I'd expect to blossom into a 2C in a few years. He's a good 3C though.

 

[NVious]

I’d rather pay market value for new players than pay at or above market value for the same players who have continuously failed the team and fans.

JT needs to get bent, offer him 4x3 and tell him to kick rocks if he wants any more.

If he leaves you can state how money not winning was more important to him.

 

[Racer88]

Whoa whoa whoa, don't let the truth get in the way of this Tavares blows circle jerk.


If you look at 3 x 7 objectively, which seems to be incredibly difficult to do here, it's pretty good for both sides. Is it a huge discount? No. Could Tavares get more than that on the open market? Likely, just look at the comparable players.

Of the four guys closest to him in PPG this year, the average salary of the three guys not on a rookie contract is 7.9 million dollars. If you look at the guys above his production... well, let's not because they are averaging more than that.

If you look at comparable guys and their contracts, Joe Pavelski is the closest (which is why his name keeps coming up). He got this exact deal under a lower salary cap (and actually produced less, but scored more goals, than JT is so far this year). Anze Kopitar is another, he got 2 x 7, but he was also 37 (and made 10 million a year through his 34-36 aged years).

I know no one is excited to hear this news, but objectively speaking (which sweet lord is how I hope Treliving is looking at things), 3 x 7 for JT is actually pretty good. If there is another option out there that is as good (or better) for that kind of price tag, by all means, let's go exploring... but what does that list look like? Sam Bennett has never scored 30 goals or 50 points in the league. The only time Tavares has been under 50 points is a strike shortened season and over the last three years plus this, Tavares has 31 more goals than him. Yanni Gourde has gotten to more than 50 points once in his career, 2017-18 in Tampa, and has never scored more than 25 points. Matt Duchene is probably the best bet? If you think you can get him for anywhere close to his current salary (3.5), aren't you signing two centres? Hell, don't we have to sign two centres?

This is all to say, I get why fans are emotional, but that doesn't mean that this contract rumour is wildly off base, it's actually pretty great value for the team that signs it.

All what you say may be true and maybe Tavares is worth 7 million based on your examples but I’m betting none of your examples play on a team where 4 similar forwards make over 50% of the cap. If we give all Ththe cap increases to the same 4 core that hasn’t been able to get it done how do we improve.
It’s just crazy to expect them to be any better, those 4 are what they are, perennial underachieving in the playoffs

 

[keonsbitterness]

If Marner and Tavares come back at 20M combined does anyone actually believe they can win a cup in the last 3 years of Matthews?

Yes: Leafs management.

 

[thusk]

You are not wrong about the stars needing to raise their games in order to get more playoff success. Which makes me think, why bother making any changes at the TDL or in the summer if you are simply going to continue to run them back and hope they figure it out.

You can't forfeit because of the past, you havibg a good team so need to take your chance and yeah maybe will not giving a cup kike the 31 other NHL team. You can't stop trying because of it... Carolina didn't stop because everytime they was facing a atlantic team in playoff, they was swept.

Zito brought in the better player. That was understood at the time. Who are you getting that is better than JT, for JT? For that matter, using what we do have available, who are you bringing in who is better?

The best hope, is to have a 2A/B type situation.... get Tavares at a reasonable rate, and hope you can sign one of the Free Agents to a price that works for us. Maybe you get lucky and Duchene decides to play near home for a couple of seasons.... sure, he's older and retirement contract and all... but he's still productive. He'd be affordable, even with extending Tavares.

I don't think Bennett, or Granlund will be affordable, but maybe Gourde... I'm not the biggest fan of Gourde, though @thusk is. As a Free Agent, I don't mind it... as a trade... meh.

Outside of that, it's gambling on a trade... I think Cozens is on the radar, not sure we can afford him. Krebs is more affordable, but it's a gamble he blossoms out of Buffalo. I'd take that gamble.

Morgan Geekie is a UFA, but he's hardly someone I'd expect to blossom into a 2C in a few years. He's a good 3C though.

I like Gourde option as 3C, not as 2C

and granlund is a clear downgrade in to JT and will cost as much

 

[Stephen]

Why not extend the contract to 5 years at $4.75 million or something? More real cash and stretches out his Toronto tenure to a 5 year term, taking him to 40. Gives him more security and money on paper and lowers the AAV. In 3 years time he’s probably a $2 million player anyway.

That is if you want him back.

 

[Fogelhund]

Why not extend the contract to 5 years at $4.75 million or something? More real cash and stretches out his Toronto tenure to a 5 year term, taking him to 40. Gives him more security and money on paper and lowers the AAV. In 3 years time he’s probably a $2 million player anyway.

That is if you want him back.

8 years at $3 million... same dollars.... Robidas Island when convenient. Cap comes off the books when his jersey gets itchy.

 

[tuckerintensity]

if you look at it objectively you'd realize JT like Stamkos last couple of seasons in Tampa was the product of playing with elite offensive players so why should the team grossly overpay him again ?

I mean, 21 million over three years isn't grossly overpaid. In fact, as you can see if you actually pay attention to comparables, it's a little bit less than market value (if we looked at the cap from 2019-20 and now, probably significantly less).

if you look at it objectively you'd realize JT like Stamkos last couple of seasons in Tampa was the product of playing with elite offensive players so why should the team grossly overpay him again ?

Again, it's not a gross overpay, it's actually a little less than market for a player of his production and his age.

As said before, objectivity is not easy to come by in Leafs Nation.

ETA: Just for funsies, a less productive Joe Pavelski got 8.6% of the salary cap in 2019-20. This, based on the project cap next year, would be 7.3%. Anze Kopitar was 8% of the cap (and three years older than Tavares when he signed that).

 

[ToneDog]

Zito brought in the better player. That was understood at the time. Who are you getting that is better than JT, for JT? For that matter, using what we do have available, who are you bringing in who is better?

The best hope, is to have a 2A/B type situation.... get Tavares at a reasonable rate, and hope you can sign one of the Free Agents to a price that works for us. Maybe you get lucky and Duchene decides to play near home for a couple of seasons.... sure, he's older and retirement contract and all... but he's still productive. He'd be affordable, even with extending Tavares.

I don't think Bennett, or Granlund will be affordable, but maybe Gourde... I'm not the biggest fan of Gourde, though @thusk is. As a Free Agent, I don't mind it... as a trade... meh.

Outside of that, it's gambling on a trade... I think Cozens is on the radar, not sure we can afford him. Krebs is more affordable, but it's a gamble he blossoms out of Buffalo. I'd take that gamble.

Morgan Geekie is a UFA, but he's hardly someone I'd expect to blossom into a 2C in a few years. He's a good 3C though.

This. Gourde is a #3C at best. Bennett would be nice if he wanted to come home. Otherwise a younger B. Schenn could be that 2A/2B C. Cozens is a pipe dream. Tre's getting the big bucks. Let him figure it out.

 

[thewave]

So can we get him long term for a cap hit of like 3.5-4.5m deferred? I am looking around the league and was just thinking if Mitch goes and JT can be had at like 4m cap maybe it's OK. I don't like it but we have few prospects etc.

Fill me in with what's possible?

 

[ToneDog]

So can we get him long term for a cap hit of like 3.5-4.5m deferred? I am looking around the league and was just thinking if Mitch goes and JT can be had at like 4m cap maybe it's OK. I don't like it but we have few prospects etc.

Fill me in with what's possible?

They did it for Tanev. There must be a reason if they do not do it for Tavares. Maybe Tavares needs the money now so he can repay the CRA?