marty 4 hart*
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Rank the top ten best players ever. Just looking at how god they were when they were in their prime.
I'd say
1- Gretzky
2- Orr
3- Lemieux
4- Howe
5- Hasek
6- Lafleur
7- Hull
8- Shore
9- Jagr
10- Harvey
As the topic states, I am going on prime and factoring in nothing else. I am looking at how great (and dominant) these players were at their very best (even if it was/is a small window). As lazer said above, I am going more with peak.
1. Orr
2. Gretzky
3. Lemieux
4. Howe
5. Hasek
6. Ovechkin
7. Lindros
8. Kharlamov
9. Richard
10. Tretiak
HM: Forsberg
Lindros and Forsberg have a single Art Ross (won by only a few points over non-HOFer Markus Naslund) and two Harts between them. I doubt either has had even a Top 30 prime.
Guy Lafleur should be on everyone's list - probably higher than any non-goalie not named Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, or Howe. He dominated the NHL in both the regular season and playoffs for 6 straight years, and did absolutely nothing before or after.
I disagree. When Lindros and Forsberg were at their peak, they were more dominant than Lafleur and many other players who had better careers than both of them.
At his best, Lindros was an absolute monster who was scoring 100+ points a year, while making his linemates better and brutally destroying players physically.
In the early years, teams were terrified of #88. He was a hulk with top-end skills and mean streak as wide as his back. There may never be a player like Lindros again - Ovechkin is the closest, and he is not even near the animal Lindros was physically. If he stayed healthy (and avoided off-ice problems) he could have been the most dominant player of all-time. He had the physical tools and talent.
Forsberg was also a monster while at his best. His combination of skills, two-way play and checking was outright scary. There was NOTHING Forsberg couldn't do, nothing.
I disagree. When Lindros and Forsberg were at their peak, they were more dominant than Lafleur and many other players who had better careers than both of them.
At his best, Lindros was an absolute monster who was scoring 100+ points a year, while making his linemates better and brutally destroying players physically. In the early years, teams were terrified of #88. He was a hulk with top-end skills and mean streak as wide as his back. There may never be a player like Lindros again - Ovechkin is the closest, and he is not even near the animal Lindros was physically. If he stayed healthy (and avoided off-ice problems) he could have been the most dominant player of all-time. He had the physical tools and talent.
Forsberg was also a monster while at his best. His combination of skills, two-way play and checking was outright scary. There was NOTHING Forsberg couldn't do, nothing.
I disagree. When Lindros and Forsberg were at their peak, they were more dominant than Lafleur and many other players who had better careers than both of them.
At his best, Lindros was an absolute monster who was scoring 100+ points a year, while making his linemates better and brutally destroying players physically. In the early years, teams were terrified of #88. He was a hulk with top-end skills and mean streak as wide as his back. There may never be a player like Lindros again - Ovechkin is the closest, and he is not even near the animal Lindros was physically. If he stayed healthy (and avoided off-ice problems) he could have been the most dominant player of all-time. He had the physical tools and talent.
Forsberg was also a monster while at his best. His combination of skills, two-way play and checking was outright scary. There was NOTHING Forsberg couldn't do, nothing.
I disagree. When Lindros and Forsberg were at their peak, they were more dominant than Lafleur and many other players who had better careers than both of them.
At his best, Lindros was an absolute monster who was scoring 100+ points a year, while making his linemates better and brutally destroying players physically. In the early years, teams were terrified of #88. He was a hulk with top-end skills and mean streak as wide as his back. There may never be a player like Lindros again - Ovechkin is the closest, and he is not even near the animal Lindros was physically. If he stayed healthy (and avoided off-ice problems) he could have been the most dominant player of all-time. He had the physical tools and talent.
Forsberg was also a monster while at his best. His combination of skills, two-way play and checking was outright scary. There was NOTHING Forsberg couldn't do, nothing.
More dominant than Lafleur ???
In six years, Lafleur never scored less than 50 goals, in his entire career Forsberg never scored more than 30 in a season ....
To me, domination would include stuff like Hart Trophies, Art Ross', Stanley Cups, Conn Smythe's etc ...
A single 100 point season (Lindros), a single first team all-star nomination, or a single Hart Trophy, no Conn Smythe's, no Cups ... doesn't spell domination to me.
To his credit Forsberg made the first all-star team three times, but a single Hart, a single Art Ross, two 100 point season, two Cups, no Conn Smythes ... doesn't spell domination to me.
Over the six year period Lafleur was the best player in the NHL.
- six first team All-Star
- two Hart Trophies
- three Art Ross Trophies
- six 100 point seasons
- one Conn Smythe trophy
- four Stanley Cups
Aside from Gretzky, (and maybe Lemieux) ... no forward ever had a more dominant six year run.
Edit: Glad to see that I wasn't the only one who shook their head at the inclusion of Lindros and Forsberg in this thread.
People, there is more to hockey than just scoring goals and putting up points. Please tell me the day Lafleur played excellent two-way hockey and threw checks like Forsberg. He didn't. And, Lindros was a monster who could change/dominant a game with skill or pure physical intimidation. There is a lot more to hockey than just numbers... which is why players like Robinson and Stevens were better than Coffey.
Total NHL "HHOF Monitor PTS" 3 consecutive seasons
Player| POS |Franch| Last Seas. | Total NHL "HHOF PTS" (3 Cons. Seas.)
Wayne "The Great One" Gretzky| C | EDM | 1984-85 | 2057.00
Bobby "Number Four" Orr| D | BOS | 1971-72 | 1937.80
Guy "The Flower" Lafleur| RW | MTL | 1977-78 | 1727.50
Gordie "Mr. Hockey" Howe| RW | DET | 1953-54 | 1580.00
Phil "Espo" Esposito| C | BOS | 1973-74 | 1553.50
Dominik "The Dominator" Hasek| G | BUF | 1998-99 | 1511.00
Bobby "The Golden Jet" Hull| LW | CHI | 1965-66 | 1464.50
Stan "Stosh" Mikita | C | CHI | 1967-68 | 1400.00
Jaromir "Jags" Jagr | RW | PIT | 1999-00 | 1388.50
Jean "Le Gros Bill" Beliveau | C | MTL | 1956-57 | 1307.50
Eduard "Newsy" Lalonde | C | MTL | 1920-21 | 1235.00
Alexander "Ovie" Ovechkin| LW | WAS | 2008-09 | ~1230
Mario "The Magnificent" Lemieux | C | PIT | 1988-89 | 1225.00
Terry "Ukey" Sawchuk | G | DET | 1953-54 | 1194.00
Jacques "Jake The Snake" Plante | G | MTL | 1959-60 | 1168.50
Ken "Octopus" Dryden | G | MTL | 1977-78 | 1167.00
Charlie "Big Blue Bomber" Conacher | RW | TOR | 1935-36 | 1165.50
Maurice "The Rocket" Richard | RW | MTL | 1946-47 | 1135.50
Cecil "Babe" Dye | RW | TOR | 1922-23 | 1126.50
Bernie "Barnyard" Parent | G | PHI | 1975-76 | 1119.50
Evgeni "Gino" Malkin| C | PIT | 2008-09 | ~1100
Bill "The Mirror Man" Durnan | G | MTL | 1945-46 | 1098.50
Mike "The Boss" Bossy | RW | NYI | 1982-83 | 1084.50
Brett "The Golden Brett" Hull | RW | STL | 1991-92 | 1079.50
Joe "Phantom" Malone | C | HAM | 1919-20 | 1059.00
Clint "Praying Bennie" Benedict | G | OTT1 | 1920-21 | 1058.00
Bill Cook | RW | NYR | 1932-33 | 1056.50
Bryan "Trots" Trottier | C | NYI | 1979-80 | 1039.50
Eddie "The Edmonton Express" Shore | D | BOS | 1932-33 | 1016.65
Cy "The Cornwall Colt" Denneny | LW | OTT1 | 1924-25 | 1015.00
Dickie "Digging Dicker" Moore | LW | MTL | 1958-59 | 1012.00
Bobby "Clarkie" Clarke | C | PHI | 1975-76 | 997.00
Jari "The Flying Finn" Kurri | RW | EDM | 1986-87 | 989.50
Paul "Coff" Coffey | D | EDM | 1985-86 | 989.05
Leonard "Red" Kelly | D | DET | 1953-54 | 979.10
Aubrey "Dit" Clapper | D | BOS | 1940-41 | 971.20
Frank "Mr. Zero" Brimsek | G | BOS | 1940-41 | 965.50
Marcel "Little Beaver" Dionne | C | LA | 1980-81 | 963.00
Cecil "Tiny" Thompson| G | BOS | 1930-31 | 953.50
George "Buck" Boucher | D | OTT1 | 1923-24 | 951.30
Doug "Dallying Doug" Harvey | D | MTL | 1957-58 | 945.70
Ray "Bubba" Bourque | D | BOS | 1991-92 | 940.60
Nicklas "Lidas" Lidstrom | D | DET | 2002-03 | 934.30
Bryan Sr. "Hex" Hextall | RW | NYR | 1941-42 | 928.50
Joe "Burnaby Joe" Sakic | C | COL | 2001-02 | 927.00
Howie "The Stratford Streak" Morenz | C | MTL | 1931-32 | 920.50
Frank "Raffles" Boucher | C | NYR | 1929-30 | 919.00
Sprague "The Big Train" Cleghorn | D | BOS | 1925-26 | 913.05
Tony "Tony O" Esposito | G | CHI | 1971-72 | 909.00
Jarome "Iggy" Iginla | RW | CGY | 2003-04 | 893.50
I don't know how the HHOF points system works, but does Ovechkin really rank higher than Lemieux over a 3 season period? That is absolutely staggering. It would also mean I am both underestimating Ovechkin in this, and overestimating Lemieux
I don't know how the HHOF points system works, but does Ovechkin really rank higher than Lemieux over a 3 season period? That is absolutely staggering. It would also mean I am both underestimating Ovechkin in this, and overestimating Lemieux
I disagree. When Lindros and Forsberg were at their peak, they were more dominant than Lafleur and many other players who had better careers than both of them.
At his best, Lindros was an absolute monster who was scoring 100+ points a year, while making his linemates better and brutally destroying players physically. In the early years, teams were terrified of #88. He was a hulk with top-end skills and mean streak as wide as his back. There may never be a player like Lindros again - Ovechkin is the closest, and he is not even near the animal Lindros was physically. If he stayed healthy (and avoided off-ice problems) he could have been the most dominant player of all-time. He had the physical tools and talent.
Forsberg was also a monster while at his best. His combination of skills, two-way play and checking was outright scary. There was NOTHING Forsberg couldn't do, nothing.
People, there is more to hockey than just scoring goals and putting up points. Please tell me the day Lafleur played excellent two-way hockey and threw checks like Forsberg. He didn't. And, Lindros was a monster who could change/dominant a game with skill or pure physical intimidation. There is a lot more to hockey than just numbers... which is why players like Robinson and Stevens were better than Coffey.
I don't know how the HHOF points system works, but does Ovechkin really rank higher than Lemieux over a 3 season period? That is absolutely staggering. It would also mean I am both underestimating Ovechkin in this, and overestimating Lemieux