Wilson lost to Fotiu and Wensink. Both were great fights, though, where he held his own with two very tough men.
Not sure what your beef is with Kocur or Brown. Both had an incredible win/loss record and an impressive fight card. Putting someone like Twist above them is incorrect imo, as Twist fought sparingly compared to these two. He had a great run in the mid 90's, during his steroid era Blues days, but he still didn't fight that often and I can't say I'd rank him above McCarty or Simon during that same era.
Laraque I have mixed feelings on. He was a boring hugger, like Brashear, but I think Brashear had a more impressive overall career as a fighter.
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Well GMR -- I certainly cannot say your wrong here !!! - and I think you had the most accurate list of all the posters.
I didn't know Wilson lost to Fotiu and Wensink ? - I'll have to look up these fights. All I can say is that every video I saw of Behn Wilson-- is he handled and won every fight quite easily that I saw. I did see Probert lose to Domi and also Brashear, and he likely lost others as well. Funny thing for me, is I never heard of Wilson til I started watching old fight videos --and it's probably because he was not a flambuoyant flashy fighter like Probert. You likely saw a lot more fight videos than I did. It's just that so many people did not have Wilson in their top 10, and that is not even close to being right. I think your 1 and 2 are right.
For a guy like
Laraque you could make a case for him being # 1 --as I never saw him really lose a fight or get beat up. You are right though--he was a hugger and a bit of a boring fighter to watch. ( unlike Probert) I'm saying if Laraque had a "mean streak" like Probert, Domi, Twist or Brown-- he would have killed guys. Laraque was just doing his job, and was to nice a guy to really want to hurt people. He was one "powerful" man though.
As for
Kocur or Brown --all I can say is I thought Kocur was short, and I saw him lose quite a few fights. I'm sure he had a tremendous punch, but he was fighting at a disadvantage, being so short -- much like Domi. I don't think I would put him in the top 10. I'd rank Kocur in the same class as Domi, and both about the same size, and both mighty tough. More light heavy weights--same would go for Nystrom.
On Brown-- I was not impressed with him --for as much as all the hype saying how tough he was. I saw him fight Probert--he hit Probert 2 times, when Probert wasn't ready, and Probert grabbed him, and knocked him down 2 times in that fight. Probert would have easily killed him. I just never saw him totally dominate any fight like Wilson or Probert would. I guess I'd have to watch more videos of him. I did read that he had a real mean streak-would hit first, and liked to hurt people. I'm not sure he was as tough as they say -- but it seems like you've watched a lot more than I have. If George Laraque had his mean streak--"he'd be scary."
I will say this -- I think if Laraque or Brashear were mad, either of these guys could kill a guy like Brown-- just my opinion. They were guys that were just doing their job--just for the money, and didn't take pleasure in "really hurting people." That's the impression I got-- but they were both very powerful men.
For that reason, I could not put Brown ahead of Brashear or Laraque. Who did Laraque really lose to ? or get dominated by -- you'd have to say "nobody"-- and that's pretty much the same for Brashear, although Probert got the best of him in a couple fights when Brashear was starting out. These guys with "big heads"--like Laraque, Brashear, or Domi --are very hard to hurt.
Also I wouldn't have Nystrom in the top 10, as I saw him fight to a draw or lose quite a few times.
So, with all due respect to your list -- my top 5 would be as follows:
1) Behn Wilson
2) Bob Probert
3) Laraque or Brashear - take your pick ?
4) Clark Gillies
5) Brashear or Laraque? -- 3 and 5 are interchangeable
6) One of Brown, Twist or McSoreley ??? --"you decide"-maybe Brown?
Note- I did see Brashear fight McSorely about 4-5 times, and Brashear totally dominated him--"no problem." He beat him up quite easily !!!
Now you have to admit--that's not a bad top 6 of tough guys
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For candidates for 6-10 -- You'd have to consider names like-- McSorely , Grimson,
Crowder, Brown, Simom, Twist, Langdon and many others For myself I just could not put Nystrom, or Kocur in this top 10 list -- but it's just "my opinion" and it's very subjective, and it's based on hours of video I watched.
Guys like-- Domi, Nystrom, Clark, Kocur, Wensink were more middle to light heavyweights, and belong in a different class.
Note-- I may have "overrated" Twist here- because he was really all juiced up on steroids, and if he wasn't-- he likely would "not" have been the same?? I'd say the other guys were not on steroids-- but you never know for sure ? Also a "good chance" that Brashear was on steroids as well ?? -- it sort of changes things a little.
In summary -- I didn't watch hardly any videos of guys like Grimson, Crowder, Byers, Orr, or some other guys -- but between you and me --somehow we can round out this Top 6 ( even though you don't like Laraque) You have to admit -- "nobody" beat up Laraque at all--it's just that he wasn't "mean" -- but if he was--he'd probably be #1. He could have killed guys when he had them down--but didn't.
All in all-- your list was great !!! at least you had Behn Wilson in the Top 2 -- where he really belongs --and I think he would have taken Probert -- but you never know ? ??---that Probert was tough , had game, and loved to fight !!!
Your more of an expert than I am --as you cited Fotiu and Wensink both beat Wilson-- but then again, they were close hard fought fights, so they didn't mop the floor with him. Wilson handled Gillies 2 times- "very easily."- I was "surprised."
Gillies was for real -- he handled Boston's tough guy Terry OReilly -3-4 times, Dave Schultz, and Ed Hodospar. I believe he broke Hodospar's jaw with 1 punch--"powerful guy." I just named a few here-there were others.
I'll leave this up to you to consider changing number # 7-10 slots ?? I think the list needs to be modified. If your list stands as stated-- I certainly will respect your opinion, but we'd have to agree to disagree.
