Top NHL player in the 21st Century so far? #3(Inspired by ESPN ranking)

[wetcoast]

Third in a series of polls first 2 polls and results are here.

Top NHL player in the 21st Century so far? #2(Inspired by ESPN ranking)

This is the second poll in a series, first poll results are here. https://forums.hfboards.com/threads/top-nhl-player-in-the-21st-century-so-far-1-inspired-by-espn-ranking.2973022/ This series of polls is inspired by the recent ESPN rankings here...

forums.hfboards.com

Top NHL player in the 21st Century so far? #1(Inspired by ESPN ranking)

ESPN recently had their top NHL player in the 21st century so far so I thought I would do a series of polls on it here. https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/40568433/ranking-top-25-nhl-players-21st-century When Selecting players please use only their play in the NHL in the 21st century, nothing...

forums.hfboards.com

Just like the ESPN poll asks who has been the 3rd best player in the 21st Century, NHL only, as in rankings all time if it was just for the 21st Century?

For example only use Lidstrom's resume in the NHL from 2000-2001 onwards.

Also name a player to add from this list of top 25 from ESPN or add your own.

12. Steven Stamkos
13. Leon Draisaitl
14. Joe Thornton
15. Auston Matthews
16. Erik Karlsson
18. Marc-Andre Fleury
19. Andrei Vasilevskiy
20. Jarome Iginla
21. Anze Kopitar
22. Pavel Datsyuk
23. Duncan Keith
24. Victor Hedman
25. Jonathan Quick

Click to read more...

 

[wetcoast]

Voted for McDavid and I think things get really interesting next round with more variance and votes going around even if I think there is a pretty clear #1 for the 5th round as well.

 

[GoldenKnight]

McDavid, then Malkin next.

 

[Bouboumaster]

McDavid

When everything is done, he might be #1, but for now, he's right there

 

[Nadal On Clay]

#4 should be a good one between Lidstrom, Malkin and Brodeur.

 

[Gurglesons]

McDavid.

#4 should be a good one between Lidstrom, Malkin and Brodeur.

I think it's insane to argue Malkin's career over Kucherov at this point.

 

[Ace of Hades]

Add Luongo, he's more deserving than someone like Fleury.

 

[wetcoast]

Add Luongo, he's more deserving than someone like Fleury.

Fleury was just on the ESPN list no one is voting for him for quite some time and that should be the same for Lou.

 

[Ace of Hades]

Fleury was just on the ESPN list no one is voting for him for quite some time and that should be the same for Lou.

I'm talking about accuracy here when it comes to your add list.

 

[wetcoast]

I'm talking about accuracy here when it comes to your add list.

I have used the ESPN top 25 list, aftercall this is why I created the threads, and also suggest that someone can mention their selection of which player to add, so far Lou is the only guy mentioned so I hope someone nominates a more deserving player to add.

 

[Ace of Hades]

I have used the ESPN top 25 list, aftercall this is why I created the threads, and also suggest that someone can mention their selection of which player to add, so far Lou is the only guy mentioned so I hope someone nominates a more deserving player to add.

I know, you mentioned it as a premise. Besides the Sedins, every other prominent player from that era has most likely been added.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

McDavid.



I think it's insane to argue Malkin's career over Kucherov at this point.

Kucherov will probably surpass him, but I still give the nod to Malkin for his elite longevity. Malkin has the slightly better peak (Playoff + RS) and has elite consistency from season to season. Kucherov has a better playoff resume, but if he can remain as dominant in his 30s (he will), he’s going to get the nod for me.

 

[bobholly39]

McDavid.



I think it's insane to argue Malkin's career over Kucherov at this point.

I think prime for prime Kucherov has surpassed Malkin and will end up with a better career. Malkin has almost twice the games and seasons tho - I think he still takes him on longevity. It's definitely close. I dont see Malkin > Kucherov as controversial in anyway

 

[Regal]

McDavid.



I think it's insane to argue Malkin's career over Kucherov at this point.

I’ve seen you say this before and it’s so bizarre. Kucherov has 6 full seasons and a half season at a level similar to Malkin’s prime. Yea Malkin missed a lot of time but he also has a massive longevity edge

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Malkin is clearly ahead of Kucherov still for peak, prime, and career.

Both have two Art Ross trophies and one Hart Trophy, but Malkin leads him in major individual NHL awards by a count of 6 to 4. Malkin has 15 seasons above a point per game (most in a low scoring era), Kucherov only has 7 and will likely not equal Malkin in this regard. I’m not one for Cup counting, but Malkin has 3 Cups to Kucherov’s two. Malkin is also likely going to end up higher on the all-time scoring lists in terms of both goals and points, though with scoring being very high now and Kucherov still being productive, there is some uncertainty there.

Malkin was considered an undisputed top 3 player in the world for a period of about eleven years (2007-08 through 2017-18), which is a level of excellence that is likely out of Kucherov’s reach now, at age 31.

Kucherov has the flashier numbers because his prime is in a high scoring era, whereas Malkin’s best years were in the dead puck era 2.0 of the NHL. At their respective peaks, Malkin was simply the better and more complete player, bringing elements to the ice that the smaller Kucherov could not account for.

 

[jigglysquishy]

.

Malkin was considered an undisputed top 3 player in the world for a period of about eleven years (2007-08 through 2017-18),

This isn't true at all.

2014-15 through 2017-18 he had no argument for top 3 player anymore. The perception was that he had lost a major step and wouldn't have the health to be a top player anymore.

Up until his strong 3/4 year in 2013-14, sure the perception was still there. But there's no need to invent a fictious extra four years of reputation.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

2014-15 through 2017-18 he had no argument for top 3 player anymore. The perception was that he had lost a major step and wouldn't have the health to be a top player anymore.

Up until his strong 3/4 year in 2013-14, sure the perception was still there. But there's no need to invent a fictious extra four years of reputation.

I agree Malkin was no longer at his absolute peak after 2014, but he was still in his prime years and still a top 3 player in the game, whenever he did play. Let’s look at these seasons for Malkin:

2015-16: 5th in Pts/GP
-Two of the players ahead of him were guys nobody would rank above Malkin at the time: Jamie Benn, and a rookie McDavid who only played half of his rookie season due to a gruesome injury.

2016-17: 3rd in Pts/GP
-Clearly still a top 3 player in the world, and led the Ross race during parts of this season.

2017-18: 3rd in Pts/GP
-Pittsburgh’s best player that year, which was the final year of Malkin’s prime.

Malkin had also won two Cups as well as the 2017 playoff scoring title during this time period (while guys like Ovechkin had fallen off considerably). Clearly, we are still talking about a top 3 player in the world at this time.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

I agree Malkin was no longer at his absolute peak after 2014, but he was still in his prime years and still a top 3 player in the game, whenever he did play. Let’s look at these seasons for Malkin:

2015-16: 5th in Pts/GP
-Two of the players ahead of him were guys nobody would rank above Malkin at the time: Jamie Benn, and a rookie McDavid who only played half of his rookie season due to a gruesome injury.

2016-17: 3rd in Pts/GP
-Clearly still a top 3 player in the world, and led the Ross race during parts of this season.

2017-18: 3rd in Pts/GP
-Pittsburgh’s best player that year, which was the final year of Malkin’s prime.

Malkin had also won two Cups as well as the 2017 playoff scoring title during this time period (while guys like Ovechkin had fallen off considerably). Clearly, we are still talking about a top 3 player in the world at this time.

I think he has a case for top 3 forward in 2016-2017 and 2017-2018, but I wouldn’t say he was a top 3 player in between 2014 and 2017. You have a mix of Crosby, Ovechkin, Karlsson, Price and Kane who were a bit better than him during that span.

 

[Skolman]

It's honestly laughable that anyone but McDavid is getting votes here.

982 points in 645 regular season games
117 points in 74 playoff games
5 Art Ross'
4 Ted Lindsay's
3 Hart Trophy's
1 Rocket
1 Con Smythe

All before the age of 28.

 

[Video Nasty]

It's honestly laughable that anyone but McDavid is getting votes here.

982 points in 645 regular season games
117 points in 74 playoff games
5 Art Ross'
4 Ted Lindsay's
3 Hart Trophy's
1 Rocket
1 Con Smythe

All before the age of 28.

Add on 2 additional top 2 scoring finishes, a 3rd, 8 consecutive seasons of top 2 PPG, and all 9 years top 3 PPG. 3 additional Hart finalist nominations and 8 consecutive top 5’s. 4 times leading the league in assists (only Gretzky and Orr have done it more).

The stupid thing is that he could become half the player he is now overnight and ride out 10 years of compiling and not being a top 5 player and some of the same people will be satisfied then because of the counting stats going up.

 

[Three On Zero]

Chara, simply because his name doesn’t really belong on this list

 

[TheGoldenJet]

I think he has a case for top 3 forward in 2016-2017 and 2017-2018, but I wouldn’t say he was a top 3 player in between 2014 and 2017. You have a mix of Crosby, Ovechkin, Karlsson, Price and Kane who were a bit better than him during that span.

If you wish to nuance it and say that post-2014, Malkin was Top 3 only for the 2016-17 and 2017-18 seasons, rather than from 2007-2018 as a block, feel free. It is a fair argument to make. Since Malkin was a Top 3 player in the 2007-2014 period, I think having a down year or so due to injuries at that point shouldn’t remove him from his position, since he returned there again for a few years.

I would respectfully disagree with your list of names, Ovechkin for example was worse than Malkin in every single season during the 2014-2018 time period.

 

[bobholly39]

#4 should be a good one between Lidstrom, Malkin and Brodeur.

I'm dreading having to consider partial careers of Lidstrom and Brodeur next round.

I hate those type of rankings. To me - if you want to compare players - decide which ones make the cut based on whatever criteria you want (it can beage. year of birth, of debut, of retirement, etc) - but if they make the cut you take into account thier whole careers, vs only a subset of years.

 

[WalterLundy]

Add on 2 additional top 2 scoring finishes, a 3rd, 8 consecutive seasons of top 2 PPG, and all 9 years top 3 PPG. 3 additional Hart finalist nominations and 8 consecutive top 5’s. 4 times leading the league in assists (only Gretzky and Orr have done it more).

The stupid thing is that he could become half the player he is now overnight and ride out 10 years of compiling and not being a top 5 player and some of the same people will be satisfied then because of the counting stats going up.

Both posts are spot on (the one you replied to). McDavid will be number 1 here by his early 30s. Best player we have seen by a lot since Lemieux. I know what I’m seeing and have seen. High chance he goes down 2-4 range all time.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

I'm dreading having to consider partial careers of Lidstrom and Brodeur next round.

I hate those type of rankings. To me - if you want to compare players - decide which ones make the cut based on whatever criteria you want (it can beage. year of birth, of debut, of retirement, etc) - but if they make the cut you take into account thier whole careers, vs only a subset of years.

The way I see it; Just ask yourself if you’d rather have Malkin’s career of 18 seasons, Lidstrom for the last 12 seasons of his career or Brodeur for the last 14 seasons of his