Top NHL player in the 21st Century so far? #1(Inspired by ESPN ranking)

[Ezpz]

People are usually talking about how McDavid is dusting him in the individual hardware department, which has nothing to do with raw point totals. Placement finishes are also brought to the table, which are again not talking about how many points were scored.

Crosby had some of the weakest top end competition in league history and frankly, he still didn’t dominate to the degree he should have. If he wasn’t injured, then Malkin was. Ovechkin lost his powers in 2010 and was never a real threat. Fun fact, the three best of that generation interfered very little with each other. There was just a lone season where they finished 1-2-3 in scoring.

If Crosby could finish behind Benn and Tavares in scoring races, there’s zero doubt in my mind that Kucherov wipes the floor with him. Kucherov is a better player than Kane ever was, who tore age 28 Crosby apart in the scoring race (where he also finished behind Benn AGAIN).

In terms of raw numbers, I will comment on you saying his peers are putting up better numbers. Last I checked, McDavid is the only active player with 153 points and a 42 point playoff run to his name.

McDavid is displaying deeper dominance against better talent than Crosby ever displayed, or even dealt with, based on how events in the real world unfolded.

Crosby outpaced Benn and Tavares in that year.

The Kane year Crosby was 30 points ahead of his next forward team mate. He also won a more important award called the Conn Smythe.

 

[Video Nasty]

Crosby outpaced Benn and Tavares in that year.

The Kane year Crosby was 30 points ahead of his next forward team mate. He also won a more important award called the Conn Smythe.

So let me get this straight. There’s always an excuse when it comes to Crosby and he can never be touched by anyone before or after his time. Oh, and we can’t apply the same when it comes to McDavid. Got it.

Also, no rebuttal to your lie where you said others are putting up better numbers? I suppose that’s par for the course.

 

[DitchMarner]

Crosby easily. People are too dumb in ignoring goalie equipment changes and expansion diluting talent pool and comparing raw numbers. Crosby prime would put up just as many points as Mcdavid, MacKinnon or kucherov while being better defensively in this era.

It's actually annoying because Crosby was head and shoulders the best when healthy and Mcdavid has two other guys putting up the exact same or better numbers. If that's not indicating we are in a high scoring era I don't know what to say.

McDavid had 40 more points than the highest-scoring non-Oiler in 2023. How was anyone putting up close or better numbers?

Crosby was never as dominant offensively as McDavid was in 2021 and he's never had a full season or close to one as good or as dominant as his 2023 season.

Even on a per game basis, he wasn't as dominant offensively in 2011 as McDavid was in 2021 if you compare his half season to half seasons from other players that season instead of full seasons (which is unfair and makes no sense).

 

[JohanFranzenstein]

It's Sid. He has the individual hardware and Cups to back it up.

 

[Ezpz]

McDavid had 40 more points than the highest-scoring non-Oiler in 2023. How was anyone putting up close or better numbers?

Crosby was never as dominant offensively as McDavid was in 2021 and he's never had a full season or close to one as good or as dominant as his 2023 season.

Even on a per game basis, he wasn't as dominant offensively in 2011 as McDavid was in 2021 if you compare his half season to half seasons from other players that season instead of full seasons (which is unfair and makes no sense).

Mcd was 18% ahead of drai. Crosby was 44% ahead of kessel. Ignoring team mates reflects better on mcd because he and drai haven't gone through injury periods the way Crosby and Malkin always have.

Mcdavid led the league in scoring by 38% if you ignore the guy he played with and finished second. I guess lemieux led the league by 41 points instead of 12 in 95-96. By actual percentages Crosby's Ross wins are the same percentage.

Two guys outscored and outpaced peak Mcdavid this year with weaker supporting casts. That never happened in Crosby's prime where he basically lost three or four art ross' to injury. You've got four or five guys in the league producing at the same clip as Mcdavid over the last five years while Mcdavid plays in the weakest division since the mid to late 00s southeast division.

 

[David Suzuki]

ESPN's ranking is idiotic.

ESPN is very obviously biased towards American players.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Crosby has won and done everything there is to win multiple times. And in a much dirtier more defensive era. Art rosses, harts, lindsays, smythes, rockets, stanley cups, Olympic golds.

Has the peak (highest ppg of his era, 6 times leading the league) and longevity with 19 consecutive ppg+ seasons and counting. There's no other answer right now.

Not to mention winning matters. In no sport would you be considered the best if you don't win championships. Brady, Montana, Jordan, Kobe, LeBron, Gretzky, etc would not be considered goats if they didn't win. No one considers Dan Marino a goat.

 

[HabzSauce]

Carey Price ain't going to be voted in the top 10 but he should be an option after that

If Hank is there so should Price

 

[Bouboumaster]

If Hank is there so should Price

Absolutly

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

People are usually talking about how McDavid is dusting him in the individual hardware department, which has nothing to do with raw point totals. Placement finishes are also brought to the table, which are again not talking about how many points were scored.

Crosby had some of the weakest top end competition in league history and frankly, he still didn’t dominate to the degree he should have. If he wasn’t injured, then Malkin was. Ovechkin lost his powers in 2010 and was never a real threat. Fun fact, the three best of that generation interfered very little with each other. There was just a lone season where they finished 1-2-3 in scoring.

If Crosby could finish behind Benn and Tavares in scoring races, there’s zero doubt in my mind that Kucherov wipes the floor with him. Kucherov is a better player than Kane ever was, who tore age 28 Crosby apart in the scoring race (where he also finished behind Benn AGAIN).

In terms of raw numbers, I will comment on you saying his peers are putting up better numbers. Last I checked, McDavid is the only active player with 153 points and a 42 point playoff run to his name.

McDavid is displaying deeper dominance against better talent than Crosby ever displayed, or even dealt with, based on how events in the real world unfolded.

Oh lord Kucherov is better than Crosby now? Yall are delusional. The changes to goalie equipment changed the league. Powerplay efficiencies are the highest in league history now. Not to mention how soft the league is with barely any hitting and the complete elimination of dirty play. Star players are feasting and have never had it easier.

 

[Beau Knows]

I guess it's hard to screw up the top 3, but the rest of the list is...not great.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

Looks like the correct choice is currently leading. You like to see it.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Literally no one gives a shit whether Crosby finished behind Benn and Tavares for an Art Ross trophy 10 years ago. Crosby's leading in this poll because he's had the most successful career of any hockey player in the 21st century so far. McDavid likely surpasses that by the end of his career, but he's not there yet.

 

[Video Nasty]

Oh lord Kucherov is better than Crosby now? Yall are delusional. The changes to goalie equipment changed the league. Powerplay efficiencies are the highest in league history now. Not to mention how soft the league is with barely any hitting and the complete elimination of dirty play. Star players are feasting and have never had it easier.

Since there was an overall mod warning in the big thread, I’m going to hold my tongue a bit.

I said that Crosby getting annihilated at age 28 by Kane would see similar results and makes me believe that Kucherov would humiliate him today if Crosby was age 28.

Take a deep breath and know that I rank Crosby at #6.

 

[Empoleon8771]

McDavid had 40 more points than the highest-scoring non-Oiler in 2023. How was anyone putting up close or better numbers?

Crosby was never as dominant offensively as McDavid was in 2021 and he's never had a full season or close to one as good or as dominant as his 2023 season.

Even on a per game basis, he wasn't as dominant offensively in 2011 as McDavid was in 2021 if you compare his half season to half seasons from other players that season instead of full seasons (which is unfair and makes no sense).

My interpretation of this poll is "most successful player of the 21st century" and not "best performance of the 21st century".

McDavid has peaked higher than either Crosby or Ovechkin did, but McDavid has flat out not had the more successful career than those two yet. It's simply because those guys have played for so much longer and have accomplished more than McDavid has so far.

 

[x Tame Impala]

For now it's Crosby. At the very least SIMILAR levels of dominance to McDavid + 3 Cup wins and another Smythe. McDavid likely retires as the greater player but it's not there yet.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Crosby AINEC

 

[Albatros]

If Hank is there so should Price

	Wins	SO	SV%	GAA	GSAA
Lundqvist	459	64	.918	2.43	183.4
Price	361	49	.917	2.51	136.8

 

[HabzSauce]

	Wins	SO	SV%	GAA	GSAA
Lundqvist	459	64	.918	2.43	183.4
Price	361	49	.917	2.51	136.8

What are you trying to say exactly?

There is a reason NHLPA often voted Price as best goalie/who they'd want for a game 7.

Price had better peak, Hank had better career. Both were dynamite in playoff when it mattered, both have one SCF appearance (no cups). Both have international success.

They are neck and neck the best of their generation. Both were absolute beasts. You cound honestly go either way with these two, there's no bad answer. If price was on this list and Hank wasn't, id say the same thing.

Me personally I'm going Price. He was intimidating, and his team's were hot doodoo. Go check the rosters he had to put up with lol it ain't pretty

 

[DitchMarner]

My interpretation of this poll is "most successful player of the 21st century" and not "best performance of the 21st century".

McDavid has peaked higher than either Crosby or Ovechkin did, but McDavid has flat out not had the more successful career than those two yet. It's simply because those guys have played for so much longer and have accomplished more than McDavid has so far.

Yes, I have no problem with that. That is the way players are usually ranked.

But that post I was replying to was incorrect in saying that Crosby was head and shoulders above the competition while McDavid is even with two other guys or barely ahead of them or whatever. In his best seasons, the gap between him and the rest is very, very clear and large.

 

[Voight]

Crosby outpaced Benn and Tavares in that year.

The Kane year Crosby was 30 points ahead of his next forward team mate. He also won a more important award called the Conn Smythe.

He still lost to them in the scoring race.

 

[Albatros]

What are you trying to say exactly?

There is a reason NHLPA often voted Price as best goalie/who they'd want for a game 7.

Price had better peak, Hank had better career. Both were dynamite in playoff when it mattered, both have one SCF appearance (no cups). Both have international success.

They are neck and neck the best of their generation. Both were absolute beasts. You cound honestly go either way with these two, there's no bad answer. If price was on this list and Hank wasn't, id say the same thing.

Me personally I'm going Price. He was intimidating, and his team's were hot doodoo. Go check the rosters he had to put up with lol it ain't pretty

Better peak as in the better peak season? Sure. Price deserved his silverware in '15. But make it the better 3-year peak and Lundqvist already inevitably comes out on top. Besides Price did have Markov and Subban to work with, Lundqvist had Rozsíval and Malík (all credit to them, but...).

 

[norrisnick]

If Hank is there so should Price

Lundquist was top 6 in Vezina voting the first 10 seasons of his career. Price hit that 4 times total.

Mcd was 18% ahead of drai. Crosby was 44% ahead of kessel. Ignoring team mates reflects better on mcd because he and drai haven't gone through injury periods the way Crosby and Malkin always have.

Mcdavid led the league in scoring by 38% if you ignore the guy he played with and finished second. I guess lemieux led the league by 41 points instead of 12 in 95-96. By actual percentages Crosby's Ross wins are the same percentage.

Two guys outscored and outpaced peak Mcdavid this year with weaker supporting casts. That never happened in Crosby's prime where he basically lost three or four art ross' to injury. You've got four or five guys in the league producing at the same clip as Mcdavid over the last five years while Mcdavid plays in the weakest division since the mid to late 00s southeast division.

Players that can stay healthy and contribute on the ice are better than those that can't.

 

[majormajor]

McDavid is better than Crosby ever was.

 

[Evergreen]

Crosby. Next.