Top-60 Pre-Merger Players Of All Time: Round 2, Vote 5

[nabby12]

Is voting this weekend or next for this round? The first post says it's not till next weekend.

 

[seventieslord]

Is voting this weekend or next for this round? The first post says it's not till next weekend.

Actually, it said it wasn't until four weeks ago. It was a copy/paste from round 1. It's fixed now.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Oh, neat. Thanks!

Aren’t most of those mentions from Taylor (a former teammate)?

Lester Patrick mentions him as well, but I’m the same breath as Moran.


I’m struggling with my list this go around. Lots of good cases have been made for a lot of the players eligible this round, and I’m trying to not be swayed by whatever argument I read most recently.

I don't love having 4 goalies from the later generation before anyone from the earlier. on the other hand, if there's ever a position that got better over time, it was in goal.

 

[rmartin65]

I just came across a preview of a game between the Montreal Wanderers and Ottawa HC in 1907-

Harvey Pulford and Hod Stuart will face one another at cover and the chances are that the spectators will see a battle royal between the two. Stuart is a trifle faster than Pulford perhaps, but he lacks the brilliant aggressiveness of the Ottawa player and cannot take as much punishment. Pulford, it is likely, will make three rushes to every one effected by the Wanderer cover. Stuart can rush if he wants to, but seldom does so although the Wanderer supporters, in close games, continually beg him to penetrate the enemy's camp. When he gets going, however, it takes a lot to stop him, his tremendous wide sweep helping him greatly

What to make of this? The big one is that Pulford, by 1907, rushed the puck a lot, and had a decent amount of speed.

As always, potential bias should be noted (an Ottawa paper comparing Montreal and Ottawa player). The article goes position by position and the write-ups are - in my opinion - a bit favorable to every Ottawa player.

On LeSueur-

Lesueur is the greatest guardians [sic] of the net who has ever played in Eastern Canada. He is as quick as lightning, as cool as an ice-box and can skate out and intercept passes with marvelous effect. Hearn, undoubtedly, is a good man, but he is not in it with Lesueur, despite the fact that he is older and has had far more experience. The Wanderers have been disappointed with Hearn's work this winter and in Montreal he is blamed for the loss of the Stanley cup. Lesueur never has an off-night, while Hearn sometimes goes up in the air and stays there until the match is over. Hearn is good on close-range shots, however, and the Ottawa forwards should not waste any on him

I'm curious about the typo I noted- is he "the greatest guardian (with no 's') of the net who has ever played in Eastern Canada" or is he "one of the greatest guardians of the net who has ever played in Eastern Canada"? Either way, pretty good praise for LeSueur.

 

[rmartin65]

Voting for this round is open. As always, please use the same PM thread you have been, and please try to get your ballots submitted before 9:00 PM EST. Thanks everyone!

 

[rmartin65]

Alright, I came across a quote that states Grant was likely the best player in Eastern Canada in 1896-

Eastern Canada probably does not contain a better hockey player than Captain Michael Grant. Captain Grant was born in 1874, stands 5 ft. 10 in. in height, and tips the scales at 170

It's one quote from after the Montreal Victorias re-took the SC from the Winnipeg Victorias (which they had lost in February- Grant being noted for poor play in that one), but this is definitive, primary evidence that Grant was at least considered by some to be the best hockey player in Eastern Canada, for at least some point in time.
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It actually has a little blurb on all the Montreal Victorias' players that played in the 30 December game (Mike Grant (cover point) Ernest McLea (forward), Graham Drinkwater (forward), Robert McDougall (forward), Shirley Davidson (forward), Gordon Lewis (goalie), and Howard Henderson (point))

At the risk of discussing an ineligible here, I'm going to transcribe the Bob McDougall bit so I don't forget about it-

Mr. Robert McDougall is only 20 years of age. He is 5 feet 6 1/2 inches and weighs 158 pounds. He in common with many hockey players learned the game at Lennoxville school. For three years Mr. McDougall has played with the senior Victorias and in that time has made a well earned reputation as an expert hockey player. He is sure footed and quick and as a scorer he has a record which is perhaps unsurpassed on the team.

EDIT- It looks like the Montreal Star version is a less-complete copy - though not word for word- of what was written in the Winnipeg Tribune on 31 December 1896.

Interesting tidbits of the Mike Grant section go as follows:

Captain Michael Grant is undoubtedly one of the best known hockey players in eastern Canada. Among the younger generation of players in Montreal his has been a name to conjure by

and

Captain Grant is undoubtedly a tower of strength to his team. His keener critics said that last year was an "off" year with him, but, whether that be so or not his work this season has been fully up to his old standard. He has body enough and pluck enough to stop any rush and is himself quick to take the aggressive when the occasion offers. As a captain he has few superiors for he is cool, even to a fault, and knowing his men thoroughly he is well aware of their capabilities at all times

EDIT 2- Re-reading the player blurbs again, it looks like they were originally produced by the Montreal Herald.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

To reiterate something I posted before - if lack of funds is preventing anyone from doing any of the research they'd otherwise like to do, let me know. I can reimburse someone up to $50 (CDN) for any research relating to this project. Consider this my contribution "in kind" for the in-depth research that I don't have time to do at this time of year.