top 20 players of the past decade #9

[blinds]

I agree there's an argument to be made about Stamkos.
The argument is much weaker for Kopitar and Toews. I think Bergeron has the edge simply because of longevity and regularity.
I don't see any argument for Giroux over Bergeron.

Here's an easy argument for Giroux over Bergeron: 735 points versus 585 points. How about the 3 years where Giroux was top 4 in Hart voting when Bergeron has only been top 5 once? You really don't see any argument?

 

[LarKing]

McDavid votes are ridiculous. Other guys on this list have 6 seasons of contributing ~80 points per season while McDavid contributed 0. 3 seasons of ~100 vs ~80 don't make up for 6 seasons of ~80 vs 0. And another season where McDavid didn't even play 50 games.

McDavid has 2 art rosses.

 

[blinds]

McDavid has 2 art rosses.

That's cool, how many points did he score for the Oilers from 2009-2016? This is about an entire decade.

Imagine deciding who had the best season and one guy scored 60 points in 30 games while other guys put up 100+. Is that the best player that season? Was Crosby the best player in 2011-12 when he had the best PPG with 37 points in 22 games?

 

[7even]

Lundqvist getting snoozed on

 

[wetcoast]

Ah you must be confused. This is the top 20 players of the decade thread, not top 20 teams of the decade thread.

Toews has more points was 15th to Bergeron's 20th and is also 5th in playoff scoring (Bergeron is 7th) over that time while being a great leader and 2 way forward and great internationally for Canada.

Easy pick here for me.

 

[illpucks]

It's an absolute joke that McDavid has more votes than Toews.
3 cups and a Smythe, and an all-time great player getting crapped on.

 

[wetcoast]

McDavid has 2 art rosses.

The problem for McDavid is that he only has 4 NHL years and nothing that stands out in the playoffs.

International play does give him a slight bump but he really hasn't done enough in 4 years to even be on this list at all really.

 

[LarKing]

That's cool, how many points did he score for the Oilers from 2009-2016? This is about an entire decade.

Imagine deciding who had the best season and one guy scored 60 points in 30 games while other guys put up 100+. Is that the best player that season? Was Crosby the best player in 2011-12 when he had the best PPG with 37 points in 22 games?

If McDavid puts up 90 in 60 next year and the other guys has 95 in 82, yeah I’m taking him all other things equal. Yes, McDavid has had fewer seasons but his quality of seasons blow Toews best work out of the water. I don’t care much at all for team awards.

 

[LarKing]

The problem for McDavid is that he only has 4 NHL years and nothing that stands out in the playoffs.

International play does give him a slight bump but he really hasn't done enough in 4 years to even be on this list at all really.

Playoffs are a team thing. I disagree. He’s got bigger awards than pretty much anyone on the list despite him having half the chances as the others.

 

[wetcoast]

Playoffs are a team thing. I disagree. He’s got bigger awards than pretty much anyone on the list despite him having half the chances as the others.

Sure they are but he didn't show anything special even when they reached the playoffs that one year.

The thing is the title and nature of the thread is best players of the decade not highest peak of the decade.

No doubt that McDavid will fare much higher after playing 6,7,8,9 or even all 10 seasons of any decade question like this.

Higher awards like 2 Art Ross trophies still doesn't tip the scales of 6 entire years of zero.

 

[LarKing]

Sure they are but he didn't show anything special even when they reached the playoffs that one year.

The thing is the title and nature of the thread is best players of the decade not highest peak of the decade.

No doubt that McDavid will fare much higher after playing 6,7,8,9 or even all 10 seasons of any decade question like this.

Higher awards like 2 Art Ross trophies still doesn't tip the scales of 6 entire years of zero.

He was 20 on a bad team and it’s not like he was bad...

It tips the scales for me. I think the current best player is good enough to get in on the lower end of the top ten list despite playing fewer seasons.

 

[wetcoast]

He was 20 on a bad team and it’s not like he was bad...

It tips the scales for me. I think the current best player is good enough to get in on the lower end of the top ten list despite playing fewer seasons.

He still has only played 4 seasons, maybe lower end of the top 30 but not a top 10 guy in a decade with only 4 seasons and one playoff year line with 13-4-5-9.

Sorry but there obvious better choices available right now.

 

[LarKing]

He still has only played 4 seasons, maybe lower end of the top 30 but not a top 10 guy in a decade with only 4 seasons and one playoff year line with 13-4-5-9.

Sorry but there obvious better choices available right now.

I don’t think this is going anywhere. Agree to disagree.

 

[Maestro84]

How is McDavid still on the board. He’s already won 2 Art Rosses, 2 Ted Lindsay’s, 1 MVP, 3 First Team Selections while scoring at a 1.3 PPG rate on a piss poor deadmonton team. He’s also hit 100+ points in each of the last 3 seasons - that’s already more accomplished than some of the guys on this list.

 

[wetcoast]

How is McDavid still on the board. He’s already won 2 Art Rosses, 2 Ted Lindsay’s, 1 MVP, 3 First Team Selections while scoring at a 1.3 PPG rate on a piss poor deadmonton team. He’s also hit 100+ points in each of the last 3 seasons - that’s already more accomplished than some of the guys on this list.

He is also 103rd in scoring over the decade in question

https://www.hockey-reference.com/pl...points&c1comp=gt&threshhold=5&order_by=points

And has a 13-4-5-9 line in the playoffs.

Sorry but that's not a top 10 for the last decade.

 

[DitchMarner]

I hope the people who really want to punish McDavid because he has many fewer games played in the past decade than others on the list also don't consider Crosby to have been one of the "top" players between 2010-2011 and 2012-2013 because he missed more than half his team's games and wasn't a top 30 scorer in the NHL during that period.

 

[Maestro84]

Trophies is a good indication has to how much better that player was compared to the rest of the field. McDavid already reached greater heights and won more awards at 22 than all of these 10+ year vets have (besides the top 4-5 guys on this list ofc)

 

[McPoyle]

We're not counting trophies ffs. If you take 3.5 seasons of McDavid over 10 seasons of some of these HoF calibre forwards still on the board you're honestly delusional.

People have been counting trophies to justify other picks, why would it be any different for McDavid?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

If McDavid puts up 90 in 60 next year and the other guys has 95 in 82, yeah I’m taking him all other things equal. Yes, McDavid has had fewer seasons but his quality of seasons blow Toews best work out of the water. I don’t care much at all for team awards.

Did you vote McDavid at #1 or #2 then? Because McDavid's last three years is superior than pretty much everyone ahead of him.

The problem is, for these types of threads you have to factor in the entire decade and almost like give them a score per season (ie. rank each season of the decade out of 10 and add up to see who has the highest total). McDavid would get a bunch of zero out of 10s for a large chunk of the decade (through no fault of his own). Otherwise, you might as well vote him #1 (or at least top 3).

 

[blinds]

If McDavid puts up 90 in 60 next year and the other guys has 95 in 82, yeah I’m taking him all other things equal. Yes, McDavid has had fewer seasons but his quality of seasons blow Toews best work out of the water. I don’t care much at all for team awards.

60 games isn't the comparable metric. McDavid's played 287 games out of a possible 820 in the past decade. That's equivalent to a 29 game season. He's paced at 1.3 PPG while Stamkos has paced at 1.08 PPG.

Is 38 points in 29 games really better than 89 in 82? It's certainly not better for the respective teams they're contributing to.

The numbers are a little off for the lockout and time Stamkos missed but the point remains the same.

 

[wetcoast]

I hope the people who really want to punish McDavid because he has many fewer games played in the past decade than others on the list also don't consider Crosby to have been one of the "top" players between 2010-2011 and 2012-2013 because he missed more than half his team's games and wasn't a top 30 scorer in the NHL during that period.

Why use the word punish?

McDavid simply wasn't old enough to play in the NHL for 6 of the 10 seasons for the decade in question.

In Crosby's case it was because he was injured.

but to be honest Crosby wouldn't be a top 10 player for that time period in question, but that is a different question as is Connor in this time period.

On a per game basis, even with the playoffs Connor would be a top 10 player for sure but that's not what is being asked is it?

Also One guy scored at a 1.61 points per game rate and the other at 1.29 and Crosby is 25th in playoff scoring over the time period you mentioned.

So it's really not even an apples to apples comparison.

 

[wetcoast]

People have been counting trophies to justify other picks, why would it be any different for McDavid?

What people are only counting trophies?

I certainly didn't.

First thing I looked for was regular season totals then playoff totals then a bunch of other metrics.

 

[LarKing]

Did you vote McDavid at #1 or #2 then? Because McDavid's last three years is superior than pretty much everyone ahead of him.

The problem is, for these types of threads you have to factor in the entire decade and almost like give them a score per season (ie. rank each season of the decade out of 10 and add up to see who has the highest total). McDavid would get a bunch of zero out of 10s for a large chunk of the decade (through no fault of his own). Otherwise, you might as well vote him #1 (or at least top 3).

Nope. I didn’t vote the first five or so pills because I didn’t see them. I wouldn’t have voted him there anyway. I just don’t value the amount of seasons someone’s done it quite as much as others do. I still value it, just not at the same level.

 

[Eisen]

Sure Toews benefited from playing on one of the greatest teams of the modern era with those 3 cups but let’s not kid ourselves here..Toews played a crucial role on all 3 of those teams. Take away Toews and Chicago probably doesn’t win 3 Stanley cups. As for the Olympic teams same thing..he played a key role there. The fact that Toews has played on some great teams takes absolutely nothing away from what he’s meant to those teams individually. Lots of people give Toews a bad rap but rewind to 2010, out of all the names up on that poll right now, there isn’t a player that I’d put to start my team other than Toews.

But that was not the original argument. Many of the things listed are team accomplishments and while he played a crucial role on these teams I don't see what makes him better than Kopitar if the roles were reversed.