Top-100 Hockey Players of All-Time

[VMBM]

I’ll state that, I rated and still do rate Firsov over Kharlamov and Tretiak. FWIW.

I prefer Firsov over Tretiak, and Kharlamov vs Firsov is pretty much a toss-up for me.

 

[kruezer]

Also, I don’t know if this means anything but I think there is a difference in Russian vs Canadian hockey in terms of wingers vs centres. Traditionally in Canada centres are viewed as more valuable and generally accepted as the better players when compared to wingers.

However the four highest ranking Russian forwards on this list will be wingers. I think this potentially shows that Russian hockey viewed the abilities and responsibilities of wingers differently.

This makes me think on the list these Russian forwards are undervalued because we are forcing them into a traditionally Canadian view of the game.

 

[MXD]

This is where serious divergence will start to happen. I don't have my list, but I'm pretty sure the highest unavailable players are Gardiner, Benedict, Firsov, Durnan and Broda (and probably in that order, too).

My highest unavailable "North American Pro" skater is...
Let's just say that he's an active NHL'er.
Amongst players named, Dickie Moore would not look out of place.

 

[wetcoast]

Also, I don’t know if this means anything but I think there is a difference in Russian vs Canadian hockey in terms of wingers vs centres. Traditionally in Canada centres are viewed as more valuable and generally accepted as the better players when compared to wingers.

However the four highest ranking Russian forwards on this list will be wingers. I think this potentially shows that Russian hockey viewed the abilities and responsibilities of wingers differently.

This makes me think on the list these Russian forwards are undervalued because we are forcing them into a traditionally Canadian view of the game.

Perhaps this is the case but on the green unit Igor played more of a mid fielder type of role on that forward line.

Also any differing views on the different forward positions are kind of moot for the NHL Russians post early 90's one would think.

 

[kruezer]

Perhaps this is the case but on the green unit Igor played more of a mid fielder type of role on that forward line.

Also any differing views on the different forward positions are kind of moot for the NHL Russians post early 90's one would think.

You're right on NHL russians, I should have specified USSR. I was working on the assumption the list will feature Makarov/Kharlamov/Firsov/Mikhailov as the top 4 USSR forwards.

 

[wetcoast]

"Ironic", huh? Well, I'm missing the irony here...

I haven't seen anyone in the project claim that Firsov should be in the top 10, or that he should definitely be ranked above Kharlamov (and certainly not above Makarov and/or Fetisov). But "it would have been nice" if Firsov had been at least available around the same time as Kharlamov and Tretiak, because there are some arguments for him.

We are going to agree to disagree here but the competition for Firsov in international competitions is very weak for the most part.

Analogous to why we haven't seen and 19th century players up for selection yet.

Also if McDavid isn't up, with the small sample in the best league because we aren't projecting how is firsov going to come up without a lot of projection for him?

Fedorov is the next Russian player who should be up IMO and he almost certainly would be in by now if the Iron Curtain had stayed up.

But at this stage of the project I would expect 100 different next 10 players to put up for selection that's how varied opinions are

 

[Hockey Outsider]

This is where serious divergence will start to happen. I don't have my list, but I'm pretty sure the highest unavailable players are Gardiner, Benedict, Firsov, Durnan and Broda (and probably in that order, too).

I mis-read that as Bondra, and I was going to insist we hang on to your car keys for a while.

 

[wetcoast]

You're right on NHL russians, I should have specified USSR. I was working on the assumption the list will feature Makarov/Kharlamov/Firsov/Mikhailov as the top 4 USSR forwards.

I prefer nationality not just the iron curtain reference.

Makarov/Ovechkin/Fedorov/Malkin for forwards (order varies not set in stone for me) after that it gets a bit murky with lots of moving parts.

 

[MXD]

I mis-read that as Bondra, and I was going to insist we hang on to your car keys for a while.

Bondra would've excelled when hockey registrations were lower, and we should probably give him some kind of Mulligan, as he'S the type of player who would've excelled in the pre-forward pass era. I have a hard time comparing him to BRODA though, since goalies and skaters can't compared in a meaningful manner.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Also, I don’t know if this means anything but I think there is a difference in Russian vs Canadian hockey in terms of wingers vs centres. Traditionally in Canada centres are viewed as more valuable and generally accepted as the better players when compared to wingers.

However the four highest ranking Russian forwards on this list will be wingers. I think this potentially shows that Russian hockey viewed the abilities and responsibilities of wingers differently.

This makes me think on the list these Russian forwards are undervalued because we are forcing them into a traditionally Canadian view of the game.

Only difference is that Canadians or more accurately North Americans rank Yakushev higher amongst Soviet era wingers

Standardize rink size and rules to post fall 1969 IIHF and centers take over.

 

[VMBM]

We are going to agree to disagree here but the competition for Firsov in international competitions is very weak for the most part.

But he played until 1972 or so when Kharlamov etc had been around a few years, so he can be compared to them - even if not totally satisfactorally.

Anyway, I can understand that he is a divisive figure, I just don't quite accept that he should be overly punished for not having had the chance to play against NHL's best.

If he only would come up for voting at least...

 

[Canadiens1958]

But he played until 1972 or so when Kharlamov etc had been around a few years, so he can be compared to them - even if not totally satisfactorally.

Anyway, I can understand that he is a divisive figure, I just don't quite accept that he should be overly punished for not having had the chance to play against NHL's best.

If he only would come up for voting at least...

Assuming you mean Firsov?

 

[wetcoast]

But he played until 1972 or so when Kharlamov etc had been around a few years, so he can be compared to them - even if not totally satisfactorally.

Anyway, I can understand that he is a divisive figure, I just don't quite accept that he should be overly punished for not having had the chance to play against NHL's best.

If he only would come up for voting at least...

Kharlamov has that mythical status, that rightly or wrongly elevates him above his actual on ice play, much like Maurice Richard to a certain extent.

It's all great to want a certain player to come up for voting but there are many worthy ones who did more against better competition that should be up first IMO.

 

[Johnny Engine]

Bondra would've excelled when hockey registrations were lower, and we should probably give him some kind of Mulligan, as he'S the type of player who would've excelled in the pre-forward pass era. I have a hard time comparing him to BRODA though, since goalies and skaters can't compared in a meaningful manner.

Great, now none of us can drive.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Firsov and Gardiner are my only 2 "must adds" at this point.

Actually, Chara, Keith, and Kane wouldn't look bad either.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Oh man, really? I probably undercut Kane on my list, I realized that in retrospect...but Chara and Keith? I'm not ready for those guys yet and might not be for a while...

I got guys like Howe, Leetch, Salming, Savard, Lapointe, Gerard to get through before I start thinking about those guys...

 

[sr edler]

Bondra would have been mangled in that era. He would have been Ken Mallen.


Mallen left the IHL for the FAHL in December 1905 because of rough play, but then returned to the IHL next season (when the FAHL ironically enough had a player clubbed to death on-ice).

 

[sr edler]

since goalies and skaters can't compared in a meaningful manner.

Ahah, but why are we doing it then in this thing we're doing.

 

[MXD]

Ahah, but why are we doing it then in this thing we're doing.

For the drinks, of course.

 

[sr edler]

For the drinks, of course.

You will have to down something strong when you'll see my preliminary list.

 

[wetcoast]

Oh man, really? I probably undercut Kane on my list, I realized that in retrospect...but Chara and Keith? I'm not ready for those guys yet and might not be for a while...

I got guys like Howe, Leetch, Salming, Savard, Lapointe, Gerard to get through before I start thinking about those guys...

Agree on Howe and Leetch.

To me Keith really fits in well with the 4 Dmen you named afterwards though.

His play in those 3 SC wins should really be the feather in his cap.

Current players are hard to evaluate though, Keith seemed to be declining but has picked it up as of later, will be very interesting to see how the rest of his career goes.

 

[Nick Hansen]

Forsberg, Malkin, Schmidt directly after each other seems like a good fit. A little surprised Pronger made it into the top 60, not that I disagree. Just surprised. Clearly a player that was better than his accolades.

 

[quoipourquoi]

If we add Duncan Keith before Ed Belfour, I’ll just assume you’re all Defensemen.

 

[Michael Farkas]

It's so blatant, that even I am on the goalie union's side for this one...

 

[Kyle McMahon]

I think I had Keith and Belfour pretty close together. Right around where I had Pronger and Bathgate, who I was obviously a lot lower on than the majority.