BM67
Registered User
The leading playoff scorers during the first 10 years of Potvin's career:
Player Season Finder | Hockey-Reference.com
Player Season Finder | Hockey-Reference.com
As outlined in the preliminary thread, Messier marginally over Bourque - as they were direct contemporaries with Messier generally being considered the better of the two. Playoff edge as well. Potvin after both.
- Jacques Plante, if everything holds.
- Niklas Lidstrom is dropping a bit from my initial list, but it's mostly due to others rising.
First impressions:
#1/2. Howie Morenz and Sidney Crosby. These 2 men easily need to go this round.
Link to my megapost about them for future readers: https://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/151745959/
Link to Howie Morenz's ATD profile:
I'm still not 100% sure what order those two will be in, but I am 100% sure they are my top 2 this round.
Goalie data, as we have a couple available to us here...
Goalie playoff data that I have compiled in good faith, but also manually...(I have made some adjustments to account for GP that weren't really relevant games played, so if you see me off in playoff GP compared to the legend, that's me removing a 20 minute relief appearance that wasn't relevant or some such)...
Giving up the first goal of the game:
Plante 41 in 110 GP (every 2.68 GP)
Hasek 49 in 114 GP (every 2.33 GP)
Roy 107 in 247 GP (every 2.31 GP)
Sawchuk 48 in 103 GP (every 2.15 GP)
Brodeur 96 in 204 GP (every 2.13 GP)
Dryden 55 in 112 GP (every 2.04 GP)
Hall 68 in 114 GP (every 1.68 GP)
By year...
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Patrick Roy GP W L GA First Goal 1986 20 15 5 39 10 1987 6 4 2 22 3 1988 8 3 4 24 5 1989 19 13 6 42 9 1990 11 5 6 26 6 1991 13 7 5 40 7 1992 11 4 7 30 5 1993 20 16 4 46 6 1994 6 3 3 16 3 1996 22 16 6 51 9 1997 17 10 7 38 7 1998 7 3 4 18 3 1999 19 11 8 52 8 2000 17 11 6 31 6 2001 23 16 7 41 9 2002 21 11 10 52 8 2003 7 3 4 16 3 Total 247 151 94 584 107 [TBODY] [/TBODY]
Dominik Hasek GP GA FG 1992 2 0 2 8 1 1994 7 3 4 13 3 1995 5 1 4 18 4 1997 3 1 1 5 1 1998 15 10 5 32 5 1999 19 13 6 36 7 2000 5 1 4 12 2 2001 13 7 6 29 6 2002 23 16 7 45 9 2007 18 10 8 34 10 2008 4 2 2 10 1 Total 114 64 49 242 49 3rd period/OT lead management[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Jacques Plante GP GA FG 1953 4 3 1 7 2 1954 8 5 3 14 3 1955 11 6 3 29 1 1956 10 8 2 18 3 1957 10 8 2 17 4 1958 10 8 2 20 5 1959 11 8 3 26 3 1960 8 8 0 11 0 1961 6 2 4 16 4 1962 6 2 4 19 5 1963 5 1 4 14 4 1969 10 8 2 14 4 1970 6 4 1 8 1 1971 2 0 2 7 1 1972 1 0 1 5 1 1973 2 0 2 10 0 Total 110 71 36 235 41
"Surr. 3rd lead" means that goalie's team had a lead in the 3rd period and lost it.
"Surr. 3rd/OT tie" means that goalie's team was even with opponent in the 3rd period or OT and lost it.
Note: You can lose surrender a 3rd period lead AND a 3rd/OT tie in the same game. You can surrender them multiple times in a game, in fact. The per-game metric does not reflect the amount of leads or ties had, it is exactly what it says: per game.
Surrendered 3rd per lead:
Sawchuk 7 in 103 (every 14.71 GP)
Dryden 9 in 112 (every 12.44 GP)
Plante 10 in 110 (every 11 GP)
Brodeur 25 in 204 (every 8.16 GP)
Hall 15 in 114 (every 7.60 GP)
Hasek 16 in 114 (every 7.13 GP)
Roy 44 in 247 (every 5.61 GP)
By year...
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Patrick Roy GP W L GA Surr. 3rd lead 1986 20 15 5 39 2 1987 6 4 2 22 2 1988 8 3 4 24 2 1989 19 13 6 42 4 1990 11 5 6 26 1 1991 13 7 5 40 1 1992 11 4 7 30 1 1993 20 16 4 46 5 1994 6 3 3 16 0 1996 22 16 6 51 6 1997 17 10 7 38 3 1998 7 3 4 18 3 1999 19 11 8 52 2 2000 17 11 6 31 1 2001 23 16 7 41 4 2002 21 11 10 52 6 2003 7 3 4 16 1 Total 247 151 94 584 44 [TBODY] [/TBODY]
Dominik Hasek GP W L GA Surr. 3rd lead 1992 2 0 2 8 1 1994 7 3 4 13 0 1995 5 1 4 18 0 1997 3 1 1 5 1 1998 15 10 5 32 4 1999 19 13 6 36 1 2000 5 1 4 12 0 2001 13 7 6 29 3 2002 23 16 7 45 1 2007 18 10 8 34 4 2008 4 2 2 10 1 Total 114 64 49 242 16 3rd period/OT lead management[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Jacques Plante GP W L GA Surr. 3rd lead 1953 4 3 1 7 0 1954 8 5 3 14 1 1955 11 6 3 29 1 1956 10 8 2 18 0 1957 10 8 2 17 0 1958 10 8 2 20 1 1959 11 8 3 26 2 1960 8 8 0 11 2 1961 6 2 4 16 0 1962 6 2 4 19 0 1963 5 1 4 14 0 1969 10 8 2 14 2 1970 6 4 1 8 0 1971 2 0 2 7 1 1972 1 0 1 5 0 1973 2 0 2 10 0 Total 110 71 36 235 10
"Surr. 3rd lead" means that goalie's team had a lead in the 3rd period and lost it.
"Surr. 3rd/OT tie" means that goalie's team was even with opponent in the 3rd period or OT and lost it.
Note: You can lose surrender a 3rd period lead AND a 3rd/OT tie in the same game. You can surrender them multiple times in a game, in fact. The per-game metric does not reflect the amount of leads or ties had, it is exactly what it says: per game.
Surrendered 3rd period/OT tie:
Plante 15 in 110 (every 7.33 GP)
Sawchuk 22 in 103 (every 4.68 GP)
Dryden 24 in 112 (every 4.67 GP)
Roy 59 in 247 (every 4.19 GP)
Brodeur 53 in 204 (every 3.85 GP)
Hasek 34 in 114 (every 3.35 GP)
Hall 36 in 114 (every 3.17 GP)
By year...
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Patrick Roy GP W L GA Surr. 3rd/OT tie 1986 20 15 5 39 2 1987 6 4 2 22 1 1988 8 3 4 24 3 1989 19 13 6 42 3 1990 11 5 6 26 2 1991 13 7 5 40 6 1992 11 4 7 30 2 1993 20 16 4 46 5 1994 6 3 3 16 1 1996 22 16 6 51 2 1997 17 10 7 38 5 1998 7 3 4 18 2 1999 19 11 8 52 7 2000 17 11 6 31 2 2001 23 16 7 41 8 2002 21 11 10 52 5 2003 7 3 4 16 3 Total 247 151 94 584 59 [TBODY] [/TBODY]
Dominik Hasek GP W L GA Surr. 3rd/OT tie 1992 2 0 2 8 2 1994 7 3 4 13 2 1995 5 1 4 18 1 1997 3 1 1 5 0 1998 15 10 5 32 6 1999 19 13 6 36 4 2000 5 1 4 12 2 2001 13 7 6 29 4 2002 23 16 7 45 7 2007 18 10 8 34 5 2008 4 2 2 10 1 Total 114 64 49 242 34 Managing momentum/game script/compounding problems...[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Jacques Plante GP W L GA Surr. 3rd/OT tie 1953 4 3 1 7 0 1954 8 5 3 14 0 1955 11 6 3 29 2 1956 10 8 2 18 1 1957 10 8 2 17 3 1958 10 8 2 20 0 1959 11 8 3 26 3 1960 8 8 0 11 0 1961 6 2 4 16 3 1962 6 2 4 19 1 1963 5 1 4 14 0 1969 10 8 2 14 0 1970 6 4 1 8 0 1971 2 0 2 7 2 1972 1 0 1 5 0 1973 2 0 2 10 0 Total 110 71 36 235 15
Surrendering a goal within ~2 minutes of any other goal is deflating and cancels the emotion of your goal or really lets the game get off the rails for you...
Note: 2 minutes is not a solid number, because the difference between 2:00 and 2:07 is irrelevant, the shift length, amount of whistles, the time of the game, the overall score, and many other factors (road/home, etc.) factor into this...I made a judgment call on some of these. To my knowledge, it never, ever exceeds three minutes though. Full disclosure: There are times when I take a goal that happens 2:34 after another, but a time where I won't take one that's 2:10 after another based on my sense of the game script...this happens very rarely, but I want to say the words. In a near-future post, I will compile something called "Garbage Time Goals" - garbage goals are not tabulated in any other category, including this one. So giving up boom-boom, two quick ones at 18:24 and 19:01 of the 3rd period to make 8-1 then 8-2 is not relevant. Further, spanning a period does not count (i.e. a goal at 19:01 of the 1st and then 0:24 of the 2nd does not register here...that would take a greater game script read and more liberties than I thought I should be afforded).
Surrender a goal within 2 mins. of any other goal...(maybe this should be a per goal rate instead of per game? I'm providing the data, yous can interpret it)
Brodeur 37 in 204 (every 5.51 GP)
Hasek 21 in 114 (every 5.43 GP)
Roy 48 in 247 (every 5.15 GP)
Plante 29 in 110 (every 3.79 GP)
Hall 40 in 114 (every 2.85 GP)
Dryden 41 in 112 (every 2.73 GP)
Sawchuk 44 in 103 (every 2.34 GP)
By year...
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Patrick Roy GP W L GA Surr. Goal w/in 2 1986 20 15 5 39 2 1987 6 4 2 22 2 1988 8 3 4 24 2 1989 19 13 6 42 3 1990 11 5 6 26 4 1991 13 7 5 40 6 1992 11 4 7 30 2 1993 20 16 4 46 5 1994 6 3 3 16 2 1996 22 16 6 51 4 1997 17 10 7 38 3 1998 7 3 4 18 0 1999 19 11 8 52 5 2000 17 11 6 31 2 2001 23 16 7 41 0 2002 21 11 10 52 4 2003 7 3 4 16 2 Total 247 151 94 584 48 [TBODY] [/TBODY]
Dominik Hasek GP W L GA Surr. Goal w/in 2 1992 2 0 2 8 0 1994 7 3 4 13 1 1995 5 1 4 18 3 1997 3 1 1 5 1 1998 15 10 5 32 4 1999 19 13 6 36 2 2000 5 1 4 12 0 2001 13 7 6 29 1 2002 23 16 7 45 1 2007 18 10 8 34 3 2008 4 2 2 10 5 Total 114 64 49 242 21 Garbage time goals.[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Jacques Plante GP W L GA Surr. Goal w/in 2 1953 4 3 1 7 0 1954 8 5 3 14 2 1955 11 6 3 29 0 1956 10 8 2 18 4 1957 10 8 2 17 4 1958 10 8 2 20 1 1959 11 8 3 26 4 1960 8 8 0 11 3 1961 6 2 4 16 2 1962 6 2 4 19 1 1963 5 1 4 14 2 1969 10 8 2 14 1 1970 6 4 1 8 0 1971 2 0 2 7 2 1972 1 0 1 5 1 1973 2 0 2 10 2 Total 110 71 36 235 29
Goals that have only an impact on statistics and, in the vast majority of cases, do not impact the game...goals that were scored against a team up or down 3 or more in the 3rd period and goals that were scored against a team up or down 5 or more goals at any time were rinsed out...
Garbage time goals (new playoff GAA with these goals, but not minutes removed by a lazy, lazy man)
Plante 30 (2.12 -> 1.85)
Brodeur 30 (2.02 -> 1.88)
Sawchuk 24 (2.53 -> 2.30)
Roy 23 (2.30 -> 2.21)
Hall 18 (2.79 -> 2.63)
Dryden 18 (2.41 -> 2.25)
Hasek 12 (2.02 -> 1.92)
Roy was left in as a means of comparison...seemed kosher...
"I learned a lot last year. Of course, last year was not my role on the team. With more ice I can give more to the team. It was [Hunter's] decision and he had his own mind and his own kind of personality and his own systems. Of course sometimes I felt trapped."
- Ovechkin on Dale Hunter after he was canned.
Not saying that Jagr did it better...he didn't. But this is a little flowery for my tastes...
My take is "that's not nearly a sufficient sample size to make a good argument."I seem to remember an argument that Jágr bought in defensively when playing for the Czech national team - without sacrificing as much offence as Ovechkin. Any takes on this?
I seem to remember an argument that Jágr bought in defensively when playing for the Czech national team - without sacrificing as much offence as Ovechkin. Any takes on this?
As i posted earlier in this thread there is no justification for Morenz over Crosby. Zero, IMHO.
Sid's regular season resume is every bit as impressive as Morenz and Morenz was written as if he was the Babe Ruth of hockey (that was actually used to describe him). I've always had a problem with the folk lore surrounding Morenz. Nothing anyone has presented has shown he dominated the league for years at a level that would be commensurate with that kind of grandeur. Was Morenz the best player in hockey? I think so, at least a handful of seasons, but he never lapped the field or did anything that to me, was extraordinary the way he was written about...specially by Montreal papers btw.
Crosby's 7 year VsX is one spot ahead of Howie and Sid separates in the 10 year version meaning his scoring was consistent for longer. And he's still better than a PPG player heading into his early 30's.
He had 8 top 3 scoring finishes to Morenz's 5. And that's with Sid losing 2 of his best/prime years to freak injuries that were no fault of his own. Remember 2010-11 he was on pace for 64 goals and 132 points over 41 games. We're not talking 10-15 games here. It's a season that pisses me off personally because it's the most dominant I've seen a player offensively since Mario and it was ruined with very questionable hits to the head. That's an Art Ross, Hart and Lindsay lost. Crosby could have dropped off a cliff the 2nd half of the season (say to a PPG) and still won the Ross and goal scoring titles with relative ease.
Then again in 2012-13 he takes a slap shot to the face by his own guy and it takes the rest of the field an entire month almost to catch and pass him in the scoring race. More hardware lost due to asinine circumstances. This isn't a guy who was out of shape or loafing. He was targeted by other teams with dirty play and had a 1 in a 1000 puck to the jaw happen. And yet he still holds up in the regular season to Morenz. Crosby also never skated with an elite winger like Joliat for any length of time, let alone the bulk of his career as Morenz was fortunate enough to.
Crosby blows Morenz out of the water in AS finishes, even when you give Howie 2 more for seasons I listed below since AS voting only started in 1931.
Scoring Finishes:
Howie Morenz
1, 1, 3, 3, 3, 4, 5, 7, 10, 10
Sidney Crosby
1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 6
Also a look at 7 and 10 year VsX
-Mikita and Crosby hold up the best both in 7 and 10 year versions. Morenz looks strong in the 7 year study but drops considerably in the 10 year. Messier lags well behind the other 3.
Hart Trophy Voting:
Morenz:
1, 1, 1, 2, 6, 7,
Crosby:
1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 5, 6
-Morenz has the most wins with 3, but Crosby probably edges him out when looking at depth of finishes. . This is Crosby>Morenz, especially when you consider Crosby lost nearly 2 years of his prime and a season where he was on pace for 64 goals and 132 points over 41 games (not exactly a small sample size).
AS Finishes:
Morenz*
1, 1, 2
Crosby
1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2
-Morenz suffers from the AS award not being around before 1931, but given the information we have otherwise (like Hart voting for example) it's safe to say that Howie would likely have only picked up another 2 AS nods in 1928 (his 1st Hart year) and 1925 (He finished 2nd to Billy Burch in Hart voting). Other years he either finished far to low in the Hart voting (and well behind multiple C's) or didn't place at all. So even if you give him another 2 nods, he's still well behind Crosby.
Morenz after the age of 29 was finished as an elite type player, at least offensively. A guy like Messier actually had one of his best seasons after 30 (1992) and another Hart caliber year at age 35. Crosby doesn't seem to be slowing down as he is now into his early 30's.
Morenz Playoff Caliber Player is a question mark to me
Post consolidation results:
1927 - 1 goal in 4 games. Out in semi's.
1928 - 0 points in 2 games. Out in round 1.
1929 - 0 points in 3 games. Out in round 1.
1930 - He has 1 goal in the 2 game Cup final. 4 players scored more than he did for Montreal.
1931 - He scores 1 lonely goal in 5 (FIVE) games in Cup final. 5 players score more, including Johnny Gagnon with 4 goals and 6 points.
1932 - 1 goal in 4 games. Knocked out in round 1. 5 players score more.
1933 - Morenz was better with 3 assists in 2 games. Montreal still knocked in quarters.
1934 - 2 points in 2 games. Montreal out in quarters.
1935 - 0 points in 2 games. Hawks out in round 1.
15 points in 35 games after consolidation. And in the 2 years Montreal did win the Cup, Morenz was almost completely shut down. We see far less talented players stepping up.
Other random players totals in same or similar time periods (all post consolidation #'s):
Johnny Gagnon - 24 points in 32 games
Aurele Joliat - 19 in 40
Bill Cook - 24 in 46
Joe Primeau 23 in 38
Charlie Conacher 35 in 49
Harry Oliver 16 in 35
Crosby is utterly dominant in the postseason and on the international stage:
-Crosby's dominance in the postseason might not be held as high as it should be, especially considering his career is nowhere near complete. By age 30 he had done:
-3 Cup wins in 4 tries. Been to 5 Conference finals.
-Crosby is only the 3rd player in NHL history to win back to back Conn Smythes.
-8th all time in playoff points per game
-185 points already puts him in a tie for 10th place with Steve Yzerman.
-63 Career Multi Point games in playoffs (3rd all time) in 160 games.
-Consider, Jari Kurri, playing in the highest scoring era of all time, had 60 MPG's but needed 200 contests to reach that. Mark Messier, 2nd all time, had 77 in 236 games.
2 Olympic Gold medals in 2 tries (2010/2014)
-Scored Golden goal in OT of gold medal game 2010
1 World Championship Gold (2015)
1 World Cup of Hockey Gold (2016)
-MVP and leading scorer
1 World Junior Gold (2005)
-Also named Best Forward at World Championship in 2006
-Youngest Player in history to win a World Championship scoring title (2006)
-Member of Quadruple Gold Club (Gold medeal at World Junior, WC', Olympics, and WCOH)
-Only player in hockey history to captain every team of the quad/triple gold clubs.
-Orr, Gretzky and Crosby are the three players in history to win the Hart Trophy, the Conn Smythe Trophy, and MVP at the Canada Cup or World Cup of Hockey.
-He is the 6th player in NHL history to win the Stanley Cup three times with two Olympic gold medals. Crosby joins Igor Larionov, Martin Brodeur, Scott Niedermayer, Duncan Keith, and Jonathan Toews as the players who make up that prestigious fraternity
Summery:
The simple reality is that Sid is every bit as impressive as Morenz (i think slightly more so) as a regular season player. Especially when you consider he lost 2 of his prime years to injury that were either cheap hits or freak accidents. His peak scoring is as good. His longevity as a scorer is better. His hardware is every bit as impressive, especially depth of finishes.
But where Crosby really separates is in the postseason. I simply can't see how anyone views Morenz as anything more than an inconsistent playoff performer especially when you look at post consolidation totals. He was routinely shut down in the postseason or saw others step up in his "absence". As I pointed out the 2 Cups that he was a part of in 1930 and 31 he scored 2 goals in 7 games.
In 1930 Morenz scored 0 points in the semi finals and then 1 goal in the 2 game Cup finals being outscored by Albert Ludac, Sylvio Mantha, Pit Lepine and Nick Wasine.
In 1931 Morenz was the leading scorer for Montreal against Boston in the semi's with 4 assists in 5 games.
But in the Cup final? Completely shut down by a much weaker Chicago team scoring 1 goal in 5 games. Johnny Gagnon scored 6 points (4/2), Pit Lepine 4 points, Mantha 3, Wasnie and Joliat with 2 points each. Hainsworth was very impressive giving up only 8 goals in 5 games.
Crosby is this generations best playoff performer. Only Malkin really comes close. I certainly don't think Howie Morenz can lay claim to that title in the 20's and 30's. I don't even know if he was Montreal's best player, at least post consolidation anyway.
Throw in what Sid has done on the international stages and to me there is a clear gap. But I know some won't agree, and that's fine. The numbers, awards and overall resume for 87 are simply better almost entirely across the board.
1932 - 1 goal in 4 games. Knocked out in round 1. 5 players score more.
1933 - Morenz was better with 3 assists in 2 games. Montreal still knocked in quarters.
1934 - 2 points in 2 games. Montreal out in quarters.
1935 - 0 points in 2 games. Hawks out in round 1.
2010 - 1 goal in 7 games vs Montreal. Pittsburgh out in the quarters.
2014 - 1 goal, 2 assists in 7 games against NY Rangers. Pittsburgh out in quarters.
2015 - Crosby was better with 4 points in 5 games. Pittsburgh still knocked out in 1st round.
Dom needed to actually join a dynasty to finally win a Cup btw. Ironic.
Best NHL Careers after age 30
D'ja ever think about this one? First place is no suspense- it's Gordie Howe by a continent. How about second place, though? Doesn't Nicklas Lidström have a great case for this one? After age 30, he went...
AS: 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2
Norris: 6x
Oh, yeah- and a Smythe/Cup, too.
(not to belabor the point, but he also missed a season due to the Lockout and still did what he did.)
He's one of those rare guys of whom it can be said- you could take his career, split it in two, and have two first-ballot Hall-of-Famers.
If you could get a player on a "lifetime-services" contract, wouldn't this guy absolutely be on your short-list? A perennial All-Star whom you can count on to stay healthy and play smart, productive, percentage hockey up to and including age 40?!
On my rough draft, I had Lidström ahead of Bourque. On my submitted list, I put Bourque in front. Now, I'm not so sure that I didn't have it right the first time...
If I'm reading this correctly, you seem to be saying that Doug Harvey post age 30>Gordie Howe post 30. Now, I like Harvey and all- and pursuing this is immaterial to the present discussion, but really?!?Not so rare for a defenseman.Doug Harvey's entire prime was almost all after 30.All his Norris trophies were won after 30.Chara is another recent example.
So basically, Harvey is actually the one with the greatest career after 30, including Howe and everyone else.
If I'm reading this correctly, you seem to be saying that Doug Harvey post age 30>Gordie Howe post 30. Now, I like Harvey and all- and pursuing this is immaterial to the present discussion, but really?!?
I like Chara too, and hope that we'll talk about him before the curtain falls on this project... but please don't tell me that you actually believe that post-30 Chara is within three time zones of post-30 Lidström.
If I'm reading this correctly, you seem to be saying that Doug Harvey post age 30>Gordie Howe post 30. Now, I like Harvey and all- and pursuing this is immaterial to the present discussion, but really?!?
Oh, dear... NSIS---Bolded #1: Yes.
Oh, dear... NSIS---
If this were a motion, it would probably die for lack of a second:
Gordie Howe after age 30:
AS: 1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2,2- 3x Hart, 1 Hart runner-up, 4 more Hart finalists- and 2x Ross
Doug Harvey after age 30:
AS: 1,1,1,1,1,1,2, 6x Norris, 1x Hart runner-up, and 1 more Hart finalist
Hasek's 6 seasons weren't "great" - they are up there with the peak stretch of the Big 4. What knocks him out of contention is post-peak was pretty mediocre, and he is relatively disappointing in the playoffs (with the aforementioned "quitting" in two of his postseasons).Crosby vs Hasek
Playoffs.
Crosby has 4 signature “smythe-worthy” runs where he was a top 2 playoff performer in his team’s run to the cups. He also has 2018 where I think he was the clear best player through 2 rounds, and a whole lot of consistency and production outside of those runs (yes some runs were disappointing losses, but this happens for all players).
Hasek has 2 “smythe-worthy” runs – in 1999 and 2002. He also has some mileage in the playoffs outside of those 2, but less so than Crosby.
Decision:
Net advantage for Crosby in playoffs. You could argue that none of Crosby’s individual playoff runs are necessarily an all-time great one – and maybe that’s true. But still, 4 “smythe worthy” runs is terrific, and he has a lot of extra playoffs outside of those 4 too.
International Stage:
Sidney Crosby has the 2010 golden goal. And although he wasn’t necessarily the best player in that tourney (wasn’t bad, just not great) – the importance of the goal is significant, on home soil for Canada. Also – his 2014 olympics were very strong. It helps that in both cases he was team captain (2014) or assistant (2010) in terms of leadership responsibilities. Moreso than just being captain - he was undoubtedly the most heavily scrutinized player in both tourneys and he came through being very clutch in big moments. Although people don’t like the 2016 world cup – it was still a best on best tournament and Crosby excelled as MVP, and this counts too. Outside of those 3 big events – Crosby has a lot of other mileage for Canada, at world championships, etc and generally performed very well.
Dominik Hasek has one of the most impressive performances of all time on the International stage in 98 at Nagano. And whereas in terms of importance you can draw a parallel with 98 gold for Hasek to 2010 gold for Crosby – there’s no denying that Hasek’s performance was the more significant one. Hasek also has a lot of mileage outside of 98 internationally, though probably a bit less success than Crosby.
Decision:
Draw. Boring result I suppose, but let’s just call it even and move on I think. Both are great in this metric and I don’t think this should be what decides it between them.
Regular season :
Dominik Hasek has 6 “great” seasons and a bunch of good ones (probably 6 more). The 2 harts and pearsons for a goalie are extremely noteworthy of course, very much so. Two of the best seasons of all time for a goalie.
Sidney Crosby himself has 6 “great” seasons, arguably 7 if you include 2011. He also has a bunch of good ones (probably 5 more). Sidney Crosby’s domination over peers in terms of PPG is very significant throughout his prime. It’s greater than even Gordie Howe 14 years into his career - and at first glance it might be the biggest ppg domination over peers out of anyone outside of Mario & Gretzky for 14 seasons.
Decision:
I’ll probably go with Crosby again. I like offense and his PPG domination over peers of his era is pretty significant. He’s also been more consistent overall in the regular season, and even though he's only 31 he doesn't even lose on the longevity front vs Hasek.
Conclusion:
Well – it’s easy enough based on simple math that I have Crosby ahead, since he’s ahead in playoffs and regular season (though this one is much closer).
These should be two of my very top players in this round.