Top 10 defensemen

[benfranklin]

Shocking that the Canucks don't see slapping pucks down the ice on the PK as the best use of Hughes' minutes.

They finally gave him sheltered o zone minutes and stopped depending on actual defense, while the Aves and Rags put their guys on the PK and more d zone starts. Shocker Hughes wins a Norris because of it. Keep doing what you're doing Canuckland.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

The losers always bring out the excuses

What the hell are you even on about? I just praised McDavid in that post. I watched the entire Oilers run and cheered for them.

The whole Barrie comp has been beaten to death and means nothing. Bouchard is good, but not nearly as good as you think. If it pains you, you can always go stare at his poster.

 

[McJedi]

Makar
Q. Hughes
Hedman
Heiskanen
Fox
McAvoy
Morrissey
Josi
Theodore
Toews

Good list. Love your avatar

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

I like your list.

Where do you have Sanderson, within top 30?

I have him in the middle of a tier with players like Theodore, Ekholm, Parayko etc.

Sanderson has not been the best D on the Sens this season.

 

[McJedi]

Based on this season:

Hughes
Makar
Werenski

Dahlin
Weegar
Morrissey

Josi
Hedman
Carlson
Seider

Seider is not a top 10 defender in the NHL. That dude is over-rated.

I can think of a couple younger defenders that are better and carry more value. Like Luke Hughes or Faber. And older players that are definitely better. Fox comes to mind. As does Miro based on your list. Bochard too. I can think of a lot of defenders in the NHL better than Seider.

Top 10 for Seider? NFW.

 

[Rowlet]

They finally gave him sheltered o zone minutes and stopped depending on actual defense, while the Aves and Rags put their guys on the PK and more d zone starts. Shocker Hughes wins a Norris because of it. Keep doing what you're doing Canuckland.

Still hoping nobody calls you out on your blatant lies? Last season at 5v5 Makar had 70.02% o-zone starts, while Hughes had 61.68%, Fox had 55%.

This season Makar starts 63.6% in the o-zone and Fox is 61.9% while Hughes is 57.69%.

Zone starts are still a very bad metric, but at least be right about the numbers if you're going to hitch your wagon to them.

 

[benfranklin]

Still hoping nobody calls you out on your blatant lies? Last season at 5v5 Makar had 70.02% o-zone starts, while Hughes had 61.68%, Fox had 55%.

This season Makar starts 63.6% in the o-zone and Fox is 61.9% while Hughes is 57.69%.

Zone starts are still a very bad metric, but at least be right about the numbers if you're going to hitch your wagon to them.

I disagree that is a very bad metric. I think it is a very good metric. Because you say so doesnt make it so.

You and I have gone through this. Over the past 3 seasons, Makar and Fox both have received more defensive zone draws without their top line forwards, where Hughes was specifically given more O zone faceoff starts with the lower lines.

I get it, you like to look at blanket stats without context, but here it is again for you. Its easy to look at 3 top dmen who all play PP time and the bulk of minutes 5v5. Looking a little deeper is where the meat is.

This is out of the dmen's control, but also add in FO%'s over the past 3 seasons. Adds a little more context to potential opportunitiea each dman gets.

VAN: 51.1
NYR: 50.4
COL: 46.9

 

[Rowlet]

I disagree that is a very bad metric. I think it is a very good metric. Because you say so doesnt make it so.

You and I have gone through this. Over the past 3 seasons, Makar and Fox both have received more defensive zone draws without their top line forwards, where Hughes was specifically given more O zone faceoff starts with the lower lines.

I get it, you like to look at blanket stats without context, but here it is again for you. Its easy to look at 3 top dmen who all play PP time and the bulk of minutes 5v5. Looking a little deeper is where the meat is.

This is out of the dmen's control, but also add in FO%'s over the past 3 seasons. Adds a little more context to potential opportunitiea each dman gets.

VAN: 51.1
NYR: 50.4
COL: 46.9

Hockey stats people moved away from zone starts as a meaningful statistic almost a decade ago. Over the past 3 seasons, Hughes has been on the ice for a faceoff 1516 times, but has started on the fly 2644 times. Your "very good metric" is only considering roughly a third of Hughes' total starts, which does not give anything close to a complete picture.

 

[benfranklin]

Hockey stats people moved away from zone starts as a meaningful statistic almost a decade ago. Over the past 3 seasons, Hughes has been on the ice for a faceoff 1516 times, but has started on the fly 2644 times. Your "very good metric" is only considering roughly a third of Hughes' total starts, which does not give anything close to a complete picture.

One article you found said that. Thats it. That doesnt make it universal.

A third is a pretty large amount of ice time especially when it involves a faceoff that has the potentially to immediately control play in the offensive zone.

Im not saying its the end all be all of stats, but to completely disregard it is ignorant.

A deeper dive is probably needed. A faceoff win in the offensive zone >>>>> a neutral zone one.

 

[Rowlet]

One article you found said that. Thats it. That doesnt make it universal.

A third is a pretty large amount of ice time especially when it involves a faceoff that has the potentially to immediately control play in the offensive zone.

Im not saying its the end all be all of stats, but to completely disregard it is ignorant.

A deeper dive is probably needed. A faceoff win in the offensive zone >>>>> a neutral zone one.

It's happened in real time, pre-2015 everyone talked about zone starts, now they don't because there are much more effective stats that have become popular for the average fan.

Sure, a third is a large percentage, but when you're talking about differences of 1-2% of that total third, it basically boils down to one or two faceoffs every few games.

 

[PuckG]

I disagree that is a very bad metric. I think it is a very good metric. Because you say so doesnt make it so.

You and I have gone through this. Over the past 3 seasons, Makar and Fox both have received more defensive zone draws without their top line forwards, where Hughes was specifically given more O zone faceoff starts with the lower lines.

I get it, you like to look at blanket stats without context, but here it is again for you. Its easy to look at 3 top dmen who all play PP time and the bulk of minutes 5v5. Looking a little deeper is where the meat is.

This is out of the dmen's control, but also add in FO%'s over the past 3 seasons. Adds a little more context to potential opportunitiea each dman gets.

VAN: 51.1
NYR: 50.4
COL: 46.9

You have an amazing ability to act like you work off objective information, proceed to get things wrong, then shift goalposts to suit your narrative.

 

[Coffey]

Lists on HF are useless, why?

Most here are zoomers with no knowlegde about hockey.

None knows hockey.

None are humble, refusing listening to others.

The rest knows nothing.

And yet here you are having discussions on HF.
What does that say about how you respect your time?

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Lists on HF are useless, why?

Most here are zoomers with no knowlegde about hockey.

None knows hockey.

None are humble, refusing listening to others.

The rest knows nothing.

Thank god you’re here to show us the way

 

[McFlash97]

1. Makar
2. Hughes
3. Werenski
4. Morrissey
5. Theodore
6. Bouchard
7. Fox
8.Hedman
9.Dahlin
10.Ekholm

 

[Phrasing]

I disagree that is a very bad metric. I think it is a very good metric. Because you say so doesnt make it so.

You and I have gone through this. Over the past 3 seasons, Makar and Fox both have received more defensive zone draws without their top line forwards, where Hughes was specifically given more O zone faceoff starts with the lower lines.

I get it, you like to look at blanket stats without context, but here it is again for you. Its easy to look at 3 top dmen who all play PP time and the bulk of minutes 5v5. Looking a little deeper is where the meat is.

This is out of the dmen's control, but also add in FO%'s over the past 3 seasons. Adds a little more context to potential opportunitiea each dman gets.

VAN: 51.1
NYR: 50.4
COL: 46.9

I don’t think you know how to read stats or do statistics. You have a fundamental lack of understanding.

 

[Unsustainable]

Most of yall forgot Slavin exists

 

[Regal]

I don’t think you know how to read stats or do statistics. You have a fundamental lack of understanding.

I’ve gone over it with him before. It’s pretty clear he’s confused as his conclusions don’t follow the stats he’s posting.

 

[Rowlet]

I’ve gone over it with him before. It’s pretty clear he’s confused as his conclusions don’t follow the stats he’s posting.

It's actually worse than that, they wrote up that whole sheet to try and explain why Makar is much worse without MacKinnon on the ice while Hughes makes every line better, in a way that made Makar still look better than Hughes.

They literally began with a conclusion and tried to come up with stats to justify that outcome, it's not even confusion, it's delusion.

 

[Eggtimers]

1. Makar
2. Hughes
3. Werenski
4. Morrissey
5. Theodore
6. Bouchard
7. Fox
8.Hedman
9.Dahlin
10.Ekholm

I like your list but missing Heiskanen move Dahlin up and remove Bouchard and Ekholm . Replace with Seider or Sanders-or L Hughes