Top 10 defensemen

[Joe Rogan]

Makar might have the better peak season when all is said and done, but Hughes has been better last season and this season too.

Canucks:
1. Hughes - 42pts (Leading team in scoring)
2. Pettersson - 28pts
3. Garland - 27pts

Avalanche:
1. MacKinnon - 57pts (1st in NHL pts)
2. Rantanen - 52pts (2nd in NHL pts)
3. Makar - 45pts

Hughes has been better defensively, better offensively considering he's driving the offence, vs mooching assists on the PP with literally the 2 best point producers in the league so far.

If you disagree, either you have been living under a rock for the past 2 years or are huffing Avalanche farts just like Mike Haynes has been.

 

[Avsfan1921]

Makar might have the better peak season when all is said and done, but Hughes has been better last season and this season too.

Canucks:
1. Hughes - 42pts (Leading team in scoring)
2. Pettersson - 28pts
3. Garland - 27pts

Avalanche:
1. MacKinnon - 57pts (1st in NHL pts)
2. Rantanen - 52pts (2nd in NHL pts)
3. Makar - 45pts

Hughes has been better defensively, better offensively considering he's driving the offence, vs mooching assists on the PP with literally the 2 best point producers in the league so far.

If you disagree, either you have been living under a rock for the past 2 years or are huffing Avalanche farts just like Mike Haynes has been.

I mean, it’s pretty bad when you use a clip of goals against the Avs and Makar isn’t even in it. I’m sure there’s videos out there with his brain farts just like every other player but this is outright lazy.

Speaking of lazy, your first argument in this quote is very lazy as well. Just because Hughes is the leading scorer, less than halfway through the season, on a team that is very average offensively doesn’t make it a great accomplishment. Yes, he’s great, but highlighting that with the fact that the rest of the team can struggle doesn’t heighten that. Avs are not at fault we have high end top line talent to go along with our great defenseman. You could have just said he’s the second highest scoring defender in the league behind Makar and then spewed the usual tropes such as Gp, age, etc.

If you swapped these two players I don’t think we’d see much difference in production either way. They both control the play and are great defenders. As someone who doesn’t watch Hughes a tonne I’d like to see him do it on the pk, and in the playoffs. I’m sure Vancouver fans have questions about Makar as well.

I don’t know if it’s been done but I’d be curious to see a poll of other teams fans thoughts between these two players.

 

[Martin Skoula]

I mean, it’s pretty bad when you use a clip of goals against the Avs and Makar isn’t even in it. I’m sure there’s videos out there with his brain farts just like every other player but this is outright lazy.

Speaking of lazy, your first argument in this quote is very lazy as well. Just because Hughes is leading scorer on a team that is very average offensively doesn’t make it a great accomplishment. It’s not our fault we have high end top line talent to go along with our great defenseman. You could have just said he’s the second highest scoring defender in the league behind Makar and then spewed the usual tropes such as Gp, age, etc.

I don’t know if it’s been done but I’d be curious to see a poll of other teams fans thoughts between these two players.

Imo Makar is in a league of his own once the offense is set up in the zone, the violence he executes plays with is unique. Hughes might be better in transition and walking the line or quarter backing plays but if there’s 1 minute left and I need a goal or the universe explodes I’m taking Makar. If I have an expansion team and I need someone to run the offense day to day it’s a much closer debate. There’s a noticeable gap in the killer instinct even if there isn’t one in the tangible skillset.

 

[Avsfan1921]

Imo Makar is in a league of his own once the offense is set up in the zone, the violence he executes plays with is unique. Hughes might be better in transition and walking the line or quarter backing plays but if there’s 1 minute left and I need a goal or the universe explodes I’m taking Makar. If I have an expansion team and I need someone to run the offense day to day it’s a much closer debate. There’s a noticeable gap in the killer instinct even if there isn’t one in the tangible skillset.

They’re both amazing players to be sure. I don’t buy into the excuses van fans use for Hughes lack of pk usage and that makes me a bit wary. It maybe I’m just old school and that’s a new way to use players. Honestly, I cannot think of any other defenseman that has not been used regularly just to save them from injury or have them carry the offence, but that may be a thing as the game keeps evolving although I sincerely have doubts.

For Makar, I’d like to see his net front presence improve and for him to use his body more but I’m sure the latter will not happen. Last year he was also prone to giveaways in his own zone due to trying to stickhandle through layers of guys way too often but thankfully he’s cleaned that up so far this year. Sometimes keeping it simple is the better play.

Regardless there is no absolute answer here and no player is without their faults. I take Makar without even hesitating as I see him day in and day out, as I know and understand Vancouver guys would do the same for their guy. The downselling of one guy to pump the other is quite tiresome though.

 

[ViD]

1. Cale Makar
2. Quinn Hughes
3. Miro Heiskanen
4. Josh Morrissey
5. Roman Josi
6. Jaccob Slavin
7. Zach Werenski
8. Rasmus Dahlin
9. Victor Hedman
10. Adam Fox
11. Gustav Forsling
12. Noah Dobson
13. Devon Toews
14. Shea Theodore
15. Charlie McAvoy
16. Evan Bouchard
17. MacKenzie Weegar
18. Dougie Hamilton
19. Chris Tanev
20. Moritz Seider

Sergachev tied for 8th in d man scoring yet he’s not even top 20? I don’t think so.

 

[norrisnick]

Sergachev tied for 8th in d man scoring yet he’s not even top 20? I don’t think so.

Do you see Ghost #7 or Pionk #9 on the list?

 

[Ned Bouhalassa]

Lists on HF are useless, why?

Most here are zoomers with no knowlegde about hockey.

None knows hockey.

None are humble, refusing listening to others.

The rest knows nothing.

Perhaps you should start a new forum, with a 50-question quiz to answer before someone becomes a member?

 

[KillerMillerTime]

Without looking at others posts first:

1. Cale Makar

intentional space

2. Zach Werenski
3. Adam Fox
4. Josh Morrissey
5. Quinn Hughes
6. Roman Josi
7. Victor Hedman
8. Rasmun Dahlin
9. Douglie Hamilton
10. Miro Heiskanen

HM
Slavin for actual defense
Toews for balanced, non-pp
McAvoy
Sergachev
Bouchard for PP specialist
Carlson for old man still doing it

I slot both Theodore & AP on Vegas, Faber, Sergachev, Carlson, Forsling, Montour, Andersson, Ekholm, Chabot, Harley, and L.Hughes better than McAvoy this year.

McAvoy still in Top 25, but due partly to Doughty, Dunn and Hampus Lindholm being injured. McAvoy was absolutely propped up by Bergeron and is in the lower 1\3
of #1D men in the NHL.

 

[KevinRedkey]

Based on the comments thus far, Dahlin is the most overrated player in the league at this point.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

Dougie Hamilton isn’t even the best defensmen on the Devils, stop looking just by points.

 

[Bizzare]

They’re both amazing players to be sure. I don’t buy into the excuses van fans use for Hughes lack of pk usage and that makes me a bit wary. It maybe I’m just old school and that’s a new way to use players. Honestly, I cannot think of any other defenseman that has not been used regularly just to save them from injury or have them carry the offence, but that may be a thing as the game keeps evolving although I sincerely have doubts.

This is very similar to specific D only playing with top players, or getting almost exclusively O-Zone starts. It’s just another step.

If Hughes can prevent .05g per minute of SH ice time, or help the team score >.1g and prevent >.05 g per minute of 5on5 time compared to his team mates … where do you deploy him for that minute of ice time?

Numbers made up because I’m not going to go attempt the actual math. It’s just for illustrative point. Doesn’t even get into the fact that he’s way more likely to be hurt on the PK.

 

[Macbanan]

Based on the comments thus far, Dahlin is the most overrated player in the league at this point.

When Dahlin is on the ice, Buffalo has a 59.5% goal percentage and 54.1% xG.

That's slightly higher than when Heiskanen is on the ice for Dallas. Difference is, when Heiskanen steps off, Dallas is still a great team with 51.8% xG, but Buffalo conpletely collapses with 44.2% xG.

Dahlin's trying to carry the team and Buffalo lost every game when he was injured. I'm not saying he's better than Hughes or Makar but he belongs on these lists.

 

[GreatSaveLuongo]

Makar vs Hughes for next decade

 

[sabremike]

Based on the comments thus far, Dahlin is the most overrated player in the league at this point.

Based on this comment you have absolutely no idea what the heck you're talking about. If you did you'd know the exact opposite is true: The Sabres went from being a competitive team with a chance to make the playoffs to expansion Sens bad the second he got hurt vs the Avs (which led directly to the single biggest collapse in the 50+ season history of the Sabres).

 

[qc14]

I otherwise like your list but any list that doesn't include one of Hughes, Makar, Fox, or Heiskanen becomes null and void to me... I genuinely can't even imagine an argument for Heiskanen not being top 5, let alone top 10

I like Heiskanen a lot and he's clearly a top 15 guy in the league at least. I don't think he's had either an individual season or a collective body of work to justify putting him in the Hughes/Makar tier and I would still have him below Fox as well. I think the consensus agrees as well -- his Norris finishes are none, 12, none, 12, 7, 10. Really great, especially for age 19 to 24 seasons, but I think pretty clearly in the third group of guys to me that all swap between 5 and 15 based off of form. A lot of defenseman are having career years this year and he's not one of them, which is enough to keep him off my top 10.

He's just a guy that I think everyone always claims that this is the year he breaks out and wins a Norris and every year he's just really really good but not great

 

[tsujimoto74]

Based on the comments thus far, Dahlin is the most overrated player in the league at this point.

If anything, underrated. He’d be in the Norris conversation each of the last 3 seasons if he played for basically any other franchise.

 

[nowhereman]

The unmitigated nonsense surrounding Quinn Hughes' defensive capability really is something. I have no idea how people can continue to cling to their uninformed narratives after all these years. The guy is an elite all-around defender. He and Makar stand clearly above the rest of the league.

 

[Spilot23]

I mean we saw Karlsson hit 101 pts when he was playing in the worst team in the league. After getting traded to a better offensive team so far didn't produce like he was on a sh*t team. Kinda lazy using that argument IMO. Makar, Mackinnon and Rantanen are seen as player that are "mooching" from each others. When it's a Makar thread "Ohh he plays with Mackinnon that's why he produces.". When it's a Mack thread "Ohh he plays with Makar and Rantanen". Same with Rantanen. It's kinda impossible to be outstanding on their own and make players around them better. I bet Oilers fans are tired hearing about Draisaitl "mooching" on McDavid. We might as well say that if Matheson was playing on the Avs he would be as productive as Makar !

 

[nucks88]

The unmitigated nonsense surrounding Quinn Hughes' defensive capability really is something. I have no idea how people can continue to cling to their uninformed narratives after all these years. The guy is an elite all-around defender. He and Makar stand clearly above the rest of the league.

Apparently there cannot possibly be two dmen at the top...no one should just enjoy watching them ply their trade they should just continue to tear one or the other down with utter bullshit....

 

[Ratsreign]

The majority of Forsling’s ice time is 5v5 and PK, the probable points bump from getting more PP minutes might get him on some of these lists. FL had Montour on the PP and now are using Ekblad. Their powerplay can do well without him, (even though many think it would be better with him on it). This allows Maurice to save him for the defensive situations where he usually shines. He’s not the prototypical stay-home defenseman that people envision with players deployed in the way that Maurice utilizes Forsling. He gets overlooked and under rated because of lower point totals.

 

[TheOrangeDesk]

Easy to stat watch too and make a best dman list without taking into account actual defense. Not saying you, but many posters. IE Bouchard anywhere on any list.

Found the crayon eater

 

[DitchMarner]

Best Dman on Oilers now is probably Ekholm. Debatably Nurse.


No way in hell Bouchard is the best Dman. He's regressed bigtime this year. Nurse is a world better.

After the Leafs, the Oilers are one of my most-watched teams, and I haven't been that impressed by Bouchard this season.

Granted, I don't watch every Oilers game or anything... but I've seen them a fair amount and have been thinking: How come he makes so many costly mistakes/bad plays when I'm watching? He had a very poor outing against TOR earlier this year and I saw him get stripped of the puck and give up a breakaway (that was converted on) earlier this week. I've seen some other mistakes from him that stood out as quite bad coming from a highly regarded d-man this season as well.

I assume his analytics are down this season? He doesn't seem the same.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

After the Leafs, the Oilers are one of my most-watched teams, and I haven't been that impressed by Bouchard this season.

Granted, I don't watch every Oilers game or anything... but I've seen them a fair amount and have been thinking: How come he makes so many costly mistakes/bad plays when I'm watching? He had a very poor outing against TOR earlier this year and I saw him get stripped of the puck and give up a breakaway (that was converted on) earlier this week. I've seen some other mistakes from him that stood out as quite bad coming from a highly regarded d-man this season as well.

I assume his analytics are down this season? He doesn't seem the same.

Yeah. He's been pretty bad. Good thing it's a contract year.

 

[benfranklin]

Found the crayon eater

One day the Oilers will get a decent defenseman again and then you can jam it down our throats like the Canucks fans do. Until then, its a terribly constructed team around McDavid and Draisiatl.

 

[wetcoast]

I like Heiskanen a lot and he's clearly a top 15 guy in the league at least. I don't think he's had either an individual season or a collective body of work to justify putting him in the Hughes/Makar tier and I would still have him below Fox as well. I think the consensus agrees as well -- his Norris finishes are none, 12, none, 12, 7, 10. Really great, especially for age 19 to 24 seasons, but I think pretty clearly in the third group of guys to me that all swap between 5 and 15 based off of form. A lot of defenseman are having career years this year and he's not one of them, which is enough to keep him off my top 10.

He's just a guy that I think everyone always claims that this is the year he breaks out and wins a Norris and every year he's just really really good but not great

Agree with the tone of this post but he is still a consistent year in year out top 5-15 All situations Dman just isn't dynamic offensively.