Top 10 defensemen

[Regal]

You'd think that would be a good quality to have on your PK.

If the Canucks had a balanced defense he’d probably be out there, but you have to play to your strengths and the bottom 4 who can’t move the puck can at least clear the crease and block shots on the PK. You can say a PK is more important than an ES shift against the 4th line, but that’s only true from the defensive side of things. Hughes’ offensive ability means those shifts are an opportunity to put goals on the board, something he isn’t going to do regularly on the PK. The Canucks bottom 4 D is also so bad currently that they're getting hemmed in by anyone, 4th line or not.

If someone wants to give extra credit for a defensman being elite on the PK that makes sense, and if they also want to take Hughes’ ES numbers with a slight grain of salt because he’s not taxing himself on the PK that’s probably fair too. His relative numbers also need to be put in the context of how bad that bottom 4 is. But Tocchet is using him not just to maximize his strength but to minimize the deficits of the others, and anyone claiming it’s because his defense is poor is just nonsense. There’s a reason he’s being used less than in the past. He’s not an elite PKer but he was pretty average at it in previous seasons.

 

[Jetcetera]

Makar is better than hughes

 

[Phrasing]

Makar is better than hughes

Was better. Makar hasn’t been better since last season. Now they’re fighting on the same tier.

People forget Hughes is younger.

 

[Ace of Hades]

They also forget Makar plays for a much better team and significantly better partner than who Hughes is currently paired up with.

Hughes is carrying the Canucks while Makar isn't for the Avs. That's the difference, indicating that Hughes is > Makar this season and in the previous season.

 

[norrisnick]

If the Canucks had a balanced defense he’d probably be out there, but you have to play to your strengths and the bottom 4 who can’t move the puck can at least clear the crease and block shots on the PK. You can say a PK is more important than an ES shift against the 4th line, but that’s only true from the defensive side of things. Hughes’ offensive ability means those shifts are an opportunity to put goals on the board, something he isn’t going to do regularly on the PK. The Canucks bottom 4 D is also so bad currently that they're getting hemmed in by anyone, 4th line or not.

If someone wants to give extra credit for a defensman being elite on the PK that makes sense, and if they also want to take Hughes’ ES numbers with a slight grain of salt because he’s not taxing himself on the PK that’s probably fair too. His relative numbers also need to be put in the context of how bad that bottom 4 is. But Tocchet is using him not just to maximize his strength but to minimize the deficits of the others, and anyone claiming it’s because his defense is poor is just nonsense. There’s a reason he’s being used less than in the past. He’s not an elite PKer but he was pretty average at it in previous seasons.

I guess. I'm just used to the Wings' superstar defenseman of old regularly leading the league in SH TOI (and usually PP and Total for that matter)...

 

[tsujimoto74]

Fully expect to be called a homer for this, but idc. Dahlin would be a perennial Norris contender if he played almost anywhere else. His individual impact is masked by shitty support. His presence in the line-up is the difference between the Sabres being a bottom team in the NHL and on the playoff bubble (the 13 game winless streak started when he was injured and ended the 2nd game back when he returned). It’s a tragedy Buffalo has completely wasted his last several seasons of elite play.

 

[Horvat1C]

For the first time ever I can say that I'm comfortable with Hughes at #1. Quite the day as a Canucks fan.

1) Hughes
2) Makar
-----------
3) Heiskanen
4) Fox
5) Hedman
------------
6) McAvoy
7) Josi
8) Morrissey
9) Werenski
10) Dahlin

 

[Takumi3000]

Makar isn’t in the same universe as Hughes this year for the Hart. Aside from the fact that Hughes dominates when he is on the ice vs when he’s off, let’s look at the top 3 point producers from each team:

Canucks:
1. Hughes - 42pts
2. Pettersson - 28pts
3. Garland - 27pts

Avalanche:
1. MacKinnon - 57pts
2. Rantanen - 52pts
3. Makar - 45pts

Q. Hughes is the LEADER in scoring for his team by 14 points!!!!! It’s absolutely ridiculous that Hughes only trails Makar by 3 points with 2 games in hand. Makar is playing with way better linemates and it’s not even close.

 

[Galactico]

Makar isn’t in the same universe as Hughes this year for the Hart. Aside from the fact that Hughes dominates when he is on the ice vs when he’s off, let’s look at the top 3 point producers from each team:

Canucks:
1. Hughes - 42pts
2. Pettersson - 28pts
3. Garland - 27pts

Avalanche:
1. MacKinnon - 57pts
2. Rantanen - 52pts
3. Makar - 45pts

Q. Hughes is the LEADER in scoring for his team by 14 points!!!!! It’s absolutely ridiculous that Hughes only trails Makar by 3 points with 2 games in hand. Makar is playing with way better linemates and it’s not even close.

Makar shouldn’t be punished because Hughes teammates suck

 

[Kcb12345]

Good to see Heiskanen still making lists

Rough year offensively for him and the Stars but my god does he ever carry their defense/transition game at times

 

[Takumi3000]

Makar shouldn’t be punished because Hughes teammates suck

Makar isn’t being punished but just letting you know Hughes produces with lesser players.

Also Hart means most valuable to his team.

 

[Regal]

Makar shouldn’t be punished because Hughes teammates suck

The Hart always takes relative value to some degree into account if things are close

 

[Shareefruck]

Makar shouldn’t be punished because Hughes teammates suck

Ignoring the whole definition of the Hart thing, supporting personnel has always had a skewing influence on point totals for forwards, let alone defenseman. Taking that into consideration (especially when the production is fairly equal at the moment, while the gap between their supporting players are massive) isn't punishing someone.

 

[gritdash60]

Oh i was writing all kinds of names but i guess this is about active players? Why not put it on the polls section?

Right now i think 2 players are above others, Hughes and Makar, after that it comes down to preference really.

 

[I am not exposed]

Hedman is not a top 10 defenseman anymore. Talk about living off your past reputation.

 

[SallyBalls]

Hedman is not a top 10 defenseman anymore. Talk about living off your past reputation.

Agree.

Lane Hutson in the top 5?

 

[Regal]

I guess. I'm just used to the Wings' superstar defenseman of old regularly leading the league in SH TOI (and usually PP and Total for that matter)...

I get it and Lidstrom was obviously elite in any situation, so it’s a bit different. If Hughes was elite on the PK he’d probably still play there, but I don’t believe you have to be elite on the PK to still be a one of the best defenseman. The difference between him and all but a handful of dmen at ES is pretty huge right now.

 

[Daz28]

Just checking in to see if Jackson LaCombe has made it in yet.

 

[StLewis11]

I don't know enough about all players league-wide to be able to do rankings. So I'm curious what you guys think of Parayko? I see he's not in anybody's top ten, so how far down would you put him?

 

[WiLBoY]

You probably just haven't watched enough games of Hughes playing to be honest.

If you did, you would know that if you swapped the two players around, Quinn would just be as successful if not more playing with Mackinnon whereas Makar probably wouldn't make much more of a difference than Quinn in Vancouver. Having to be the engine that drives the team every night is pretty exhausting when none of your forwards can even hold onto the puck.

 

[ORRFForever]

I don't know enough about all players league-wide to be able to do rankings. So I'm curious what you guys think of Parayko? I see he's not in anybody's top ten, so how far down would you put him?

I think he's great. He was on my Canada 2025 team.

I can't remember who St Louis was playing, it might have been Toronto, but he shut down the opposition all night. A big boy who is dominating but gets little attention playing in a small market.

 

[Grifter3511]

I don't know enough about all players league-wide to be able to do rankings. So I'm curious what you guys think of Parayko? I see he's not in anybody's top ten, so how far down would you put him?

I think Parayko is held back by his offense. I mean, he made team canada, so obviously he is very highly thought of, but when you have dmen getting 90 points and parayko is down there in the 25-40 pt range it can be hard to quantify how much his quality defense balances out the lack of points. If this was the defensive defenseman award that has been talked about, he'd probably be top 5 or so. But his lack of points, for right or wrong, are going to hurt him in these kinds of conversation.

 

[ORRFForever]

After Makar, the lists are just popularity contests with big market players getting a BIG push to the front of the line. Either that living off their past reputation.

McAvoy isn’t even the best defenseman on the Bruins. Shouldn’t be on any of those lists right now

Exactly. And the reason why I hate lists like this.

***************************************************************

D-Men feeding off the PP, getting all their points, and posters assume the player is great.

 

[sabremike]

Fully expect to be called a homer for this, but idc. Dahlin would be a perennial Norris contender if he played almost anywhere else. His individual impact is masked by shitty support. His presence in the line-up is the difference between the Sabres being a bottom team in the NHL and on the playoff bubble (the 13 game winless streak started when he was injured and ended the 2nd game back when he returned). It’s a tragedy Buffalo has completely wasted his last several seasons of elite play.

Without Dahlin they would struggle against AHL opposition. It's batshit crazy just how important he is and only complete fools who have no idea what they are talking about could fail to recognize this. He's easily the most comically underrated player in the entire sport.

 

[ORRFForever]

Hedman is not a top 10 defenseman anymore. Talk about living off your past reputation.

LOTS of D-Men on the lists are.

**

As I mentioned, Colton Parayko controlled / shut down the Leafs when they played - he dominated the ice. How many players can do that? - and he's not on anyone's list.