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Tony Marinaro on why Subban was really traded

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The real problem is Pacioretty and his little posse of grinders. I'm sure Price and Galchenyuk had zero problems with Subban.

To that end, is there a chance that Montreal ends up giving Shea Weber the captaincy down the line? This trade seemed a bit rushed, but now it sounds very necessary to save that locker room from self-destruction. I also have to wonder if the fight with Plekanec early last season also had a role...and was Carey Price really that stabilizing a force in the room before he was lost for the season?
 
Arpon Basu on the MvsW podcast said he talked with players off the record and what he got was that PK was not universally loved but that they were all happy to have him on the ice with them once the puck dropped. Take that for what it's worth.
 
I listen to Tony and he's definitely a blowhard. He sensationalizes things often...

...but don't you think there are a lot of different sources here? Ok maybe some of them are more speculation than fact - in particular what he said about Muller, which was pure speculation, rooted in common sense speculation but still speculation. But there are a lot of people that seems to be participating in this report. I don't believe Tony just made it all up. I'm sure he helped himself out a bit but there must have been something there.

I'm surprised. It doesn't make a lot of sense that they wouldn't go public because they went public about his play. Maybe they were trying to protect his value in case they did need to trade him.

I don't know...I'm not ready to let Bergevin off, but I think there's something here.
 
I like how when a star player is traded from a big market its always "character issues" (Seguin, Subban) or "you can't win with this guy" (Kessel).

Then you start hearing stories AFTER they're gone (Kessel hot dog stand, guards monitoring Seguin during playoffs, the Subban character issues, etc).

I want Subban to go win a Cup Kessel style.
 
I respect Pat Hickey from the Gazette. When he says 80% of the locker room wouldn't care if he was dealt, I'll take him at his word.

I actually think it's a good deal for both teams.
 
I'm sorry but this looks pretty stupid. I don't really believe any of this.
 
I like how when a star player is traded from a big market its always "character issues" (Seguin, Subban) or "you can't win with this guy" (Kessel).

Then you start hearing stories AFTER they're gone (Kessel hot dog stand, guards monitoring Seguin during playoffs, the Subban character issues, etc).

I want Subban to go win a Cup Kessel style.

Just a FYI but the Seguin stories came out before he was traded.
 
Doesn't matter why he was traded. He wasn't traded for the right value.

How hard is it for Bergevin to say, Subban = Weber but four years younger, what are you going to add to make up that difference? 1st round pick next year?

There may be a delta between weber and subban but no way it's a first round pick even on a team expected to do well.

If the premise is that PK HAD to be traded, getting weber back (even with the difference) is about as good as one can hope for.

I don't like the trade, think it will hurt on the long run but it's 100X better than the proposals that were out there wherw we ended up with markov being our #1 D. A team that plugs one hole by making another isn't long for the playoffs.
 
I actually really dislike Tony Marinaro. I came in this thread thinking I would read some inept idiocy, but I am quite pleasantly surprised.

It sheds a new light on the story and most (or all) of it is quite believable.

He never says that Subban did anything completely wrong, as I don't think he did. Subban was a professional in terms of not crossing a line, but he is a flaming personality, as we all know. And it is quite likely that he threw a teammate under the bus once in a while, perhaps he didn't even realise it as he said it. Still hurts team relations a whole lot.
 
This can’t be real,” said a social worker at the Montreal Children’s Hospital, her office mere steps from the atrium that bears Subban’s name.

“There’s going to be a lot of crying children here,” she added. “It’s not just the donation he made. He showed up here unannounced all the time, he developed relationships with them, brightened their lives. He was a God to them.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

What's so funny about sick children in the hospital crying because they lost their sports hero who frequently went to visit them?
 
As Dame Dash would say, it's a lot of Chatty Patty.

Fact: Michel Therrien was one of Subban's biggest critics as a pundit.

Fact : he was low balled into a bridge despite having shown he was capable under Martin/Gauthier.

Fact: he proved he was worth it and more, was taken to arbitration and the owner had to step in at the last hour to get him to sign

Fact: Therrien and Bergevin avoided praising him like it was a horrible thing to do.

Fact: Habs traded away notable Subban allies like Weise, Eller, DSP.

Sure his larger than life character can be overbearing, but I think it was a minor issue, compared to the real issue. He was never rated highly nor respected by dumb and dumber, and if anyone was suffering from an ego trip it's them.

It's a character assasination designed to avoid making a real hockey related explanation to what is a very contentious transaction .
 
Donates 10 million to a children's hospital, but is apparently selfish.

:laugh::handclap:

I think he meant selfish in a team concept. Cause reading all this, it seemed like he was.

He gave 10 million spread out to 10 years but was mad that he didn't get the captaincy after this. So did he do it cause he's good guy or was it an image thing?
 
I think he meant selfish in a team concept. Cause reading all this, it seemed like he was.

He gave 10 million spread out to 10 years but was mad that he didn't get the captaincy after this. So did he do it cause he's good guy or was it an image thing?

It never said he was mad, but his close circle. Can't even get the gossip right.
 
Renaud Lavoie of TVA Sports was interviewed on Sportsnet 590 The Fan the day after the trade. He mentioned the story of Subban blaming veteran equipment manager Pierre Gervais for his series of falling and causing goals at one point.

- The infamous Colorado screw up where Subban tries to carry the puck in, blows a tire, Avs counter attack, Pacioretty and De La Rose miss their defensive assignments and Colorado (Iginla) scores the winning goal with 2 minutes left in the game. Therrien singles PK out in the post game press conference.

- Two weeks later, he was caught flat footed by Dwight King in a game against the Kings. Subban has the puck, fell while standing on the spot, failed to simply swat the puck away, Dwight King goes on a breakaway and scored. Therrien defended PK on this one during his post game press conference.

- The very next game against the Jets, Subban takes the pass from his goalie, he begins one of the classic Subban-from-his-own-zone-rushes, Mark Scheifele is pressing on the forecheck. Subban pulls a spin-o-rama to get passed the forechecker, he gets pressure again and attempts another spin-o-rama in his own zone, this time he slips, coughs up the puck, Scheifele goes on a breakaway and scores the second of his three goals that night.

During this game, Renaud Lavoie was between the benches as a commentator for TVA Sports. After his third slip-up in two weeks that directly caused goals, Subban was seen on the bench blaming equipment manager for not sharpening his skates good enough (game cameras showed it when they returned from commercial). The veteran equipment manager of over 1,000 games (was part of Team Canada's squad in Sochi), looked at the skates and responded that the blades looked fine. PK didn't want to have any of that and openly scolded him on the bench. Lavoie witnessed it from a few feet away.

Lavoie said this bothered management a lot.

On another Lavoie note, the day of the trade, it's safe to say TVA Sports and RDS both interrupted their regularly scheduled programming to get to the breaking news as well as show MB's press conference. During the panel discussions, Lavoie said he texted a few GM's around the league, one of them replied saying "PK plays hockey, Weber is a hockey player." It kind of gives you an idea of the impression Subban has made around the hockey world.

This isn't to say now that PK is no longer a Hab, he's garbage. Far from it. He's sensational. But the hockey world is a small one and PK isn't as highly regarded in that circle as he is with the general public.

Fans love the Subban they see on camera. The amazing player, the charming and charismatic personality. He's great. But nobody knows what he's like behind closed doors in the locker room. And when multiple sources say the same thing, there is more truth to it than there isn't.

Legends like Serge Savard, Guy Lafleur, and Yvon Cournoyer had been asked about PK, they all said he needs to be a better teammate. Time will tell if he will do better in Nashville on that regard or if he will slowly start rubbing his new teammates the wrong way there as well. Nashville had the right to nix PK's NMC since the trade happened before the clause kicked in. They opted not to keep it. It leads me to believe that Poile knows of Subban's reputation and like any smart GM, he leaves the door open to deal PK if things don't work out.

In return, Habs did not get a ham of a player. A little older maybe, but nowhere near finished. Short term, Habs win this trade, in my opinion.
 
Legends like Serge Savard, Guy Lafleur, and Yvon Cournoyer had been asked about PK, they all said he needs to be a better teammate. Time will tell if he will do better in Nashville on that regard or if he will slowly start rubbing his new teammates the wrong way there as well. Nashville had the right to nix PK's NMC since the trade happened before the clause kicked in. They opted not to keep it. It leads me to believe that Poile knows of Subban's reputation and like any smart GM, he leaves the door open to deal PK if things don't work out.

In return, Habs did not get a ham of a player. A little older maybe, but nowhere near finished. Short term, Habs win this trade, in my opinion.

No offense, however those legends are from a bygone era that no longer exists. Guy Lafleur whined about playoff beards. That is how out of touch he is nowadays. You are making the mistake of anointing creditability based on legacy. This same mentality is why elite players generally make horrendous coaches.
 
If Subban said that he knew Doughty would win the Norris because of who he plays with that is puzzling. Doughty is the defense of the Kings. It's not like he's playing with other elite defense. Unless you think Martinez, Scuderi, Muzzin etc are top defense. :huh: A few are decent, but are no where near Doughty's level.
 
If Subban said that he knew Doughty would win the Norris because of who he plays with that is puzzling. Doughty is the defense of the Kings. It's not like he's playing with other elite defense. Unless you think Martinez, Scuderi, Muzzin etc are top defense. :huh: A few are decent, but are no where near Doughty's level.

I'm sure playing behind the Selke winner helps him play good defensively and win his first Norris
 
Some very intriguing tweets.







Insecurity and jealousy of Subban caused his teammates to turn against him? I find that hard to believe especially without any evidence or quotes. Sounds like a desperate attempt to spin things.

There are lots of good hockey players that are famous and that earn lots of money and if a dressing room turns on them it's generally because their personality not because insecurity or jealousy.
 
Not sure PK did what was asked of him all the time. He would break curfew on the road. He would be late for meetings and at times not show up to team events. This is where, as Marinaro points out, the Habs went wrong. They should not have kept all of that internally. They should have went to the media to let everyone know PK is a healthy scratch because he broke team rules. The onus would be on PK after if he continued to behave like that. The fans would have seen it coming if they were made aware and they'd be more understanding of the organization's decision to trade him. Keeping it hidden was the Habs and MB's fault.

I personally don't think Pacioretty had an agenda. I do believe they're personalities just don't mesh well. I don't think he had to do much convincing either. Others in the room were already aware of everything.
 
So I just disproved the PK not a Christmas party allegation. Watch Road to the Winter Classic, first episode, very end of Show when the song "We're Coming Hone Now" is playing. They show the party and PK is clearly there.

Second, the other problem I have with all these allegations is that if he was such a locker room problem, then how the hell did he keep an "A" on his sweater? These supposed issues are not very leader-like and PK should not have been made a captain. So again, the lack of leadership by the Habs management is the real problem, not PK.
 
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No offense, however those legends are from a bygone era that no longer exists. Guy Lafleur whined about playoff beards. That is how out of touch he is nowadays. You are making the mistake of anointing creditability based on legacy. This same mentality is why elite players generally make horrendous coaches.

I'm not mentioning Savard, Lafleur, and Cournoyer as legitimate sources. But I'm pretty sure they have a much better idea what's happening in the Habs organization than you or I do. After all, they are still around the team. And when all three say that same thing at different parts of the season, it holds more water.

And the bygone era was not different when it came to being a good teammate. That part of the sports world hasn't changed. It was and still is a roster of men who travel(ed) together, ate together, shared rooms, attended meetings, trained, and hung out around the locker room together shooting the breeze. That part of the game has remained the same.
 
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