Player Discussion Tony DeAngelo: Part IV

[DanielBrassard]

Let's see DeAngelo take all of the PK time, defensive draws and play constantly against top players. THEN we an have this conversation. His defensive play leaves A LOT to be desired. And that is putting it mildly.

To be fair, Trouba's defensive play has not been good either, even accounting for him playing the tough minutes.

 

[usekakkorightquinn]

Lundkvist IMO will not be moved. His defensive ceiling is a ton higher than TDA's. DeAngelo is an offensive deenseman who might be average defensively in his prime. From all reports, Lundkvist projects as a potentially elite defense guy despite his size. Lundkvist seems to be a guy that scouts are now looking back at and stating they didn't think he would be this good. No idea what JD and Gorton will do. I mean, if Ottawa offered up Brady Tkachuk for Lundkvist, Kravtsov, Andersson and Georgiev. Nice knowing you 4 guys. Sadly, I think it would take more. Maybe DeAngelo, Georgiev, Kravtsov and Robertson.

 

[Rongomania]

^^^

It's like bizarro world Bern.

Like this dimension better sadly.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

There is NO ONE on the roster or in the pipeline who can stand in and play the role that Trouba is playing. His contract in another year or two will be very much on part with what other defensemen in his stead get.


Because on good days, their defensive play is adequate. On many poor and in Tony's case, outright awful at times.

Neither can clear the net, emerge from a corner battle with the puck or win a battle along the boards. I like both of them a lot, but let's call a spade a spade.

Not until his defensive play improves to a level that he is not currently touching or seems even capable of touching.

Sorry, taking sheltered minutes (and they are) and somehow translating them to a top defenseman is quite a bit of a stretch.

I'm not sure I agree with your analysis. Fox gaps up very well, probably the best gap control of all NYR defenseman. He definitely makes better plays with the puck under pressure in the zone than Trouba and is more reliable in puck retrieval.

Fox isn't the biggest guy but he knows how to use body position to leverage forwards and box them out in front or bump them off stride enough to break up a play. I've seen him step in front of forwards on the cycle and break plays up.

I've conceded Trouba's minutes are indeed tougher but you and others are acting like Trouba is playing a different game out there and carrying the weight of the world in his minutes.

 

[will1066]

I came here for more on the argument with Quinn last night.

 

[EdJovanovski]

I came here for more on the argument with Quinn last night.

He didn’t have any argument with Quinn, he had an argument with the ref. The ref’s were by the timekeeper box so he was turned that direction, Lindy Ruff was trying to calm him down. Verified by everyone who was at the game and that guy who writes for the Rangers lol

 

[EdJovanovski]

lol NYR twitter summed up, the vitriolic hatred they have for this guy

 

[will1066]

He didn’t have any argument with Quinn, he had an argument with the ref. The ref’s were by the timekeeper box so he was turned that direction, Lindy Ruff was trying to calm him down. Verified by everyone who was at the game and that guy who writes for the Rangers lol

Thank you. Again, my initial thought last night in looking at the video was Quinn didn't seem like he was angry. He seemed more calm than Tony, who was yelling more intensely.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

lol NYR twitter summed up, the vitriolic hatred they have for this guy

He could score a hattrick in game 7 of the Stanley Cup Final and people would refuse to celebrate

 

[hi]

Neither can clear the net, emerge from a corner battle with the puck or win a battle along the boards.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

OMFG, talk about bending the narrative to fit your preconceived notions.

The argument was obviously first Quinn, and then Ruff, coming over to say "nice goal, Tony, but that doesn't change the fact that you royally f***ed up taking that penalty; I don't care if you did score when you got out of the box, you can't be taking calls like that."

Followed by hothead Tony, unable to just accept their (obviously 100% correct) assessment and return a "yes, sir, I'll do better" as he should, then mouthing off at his coaches about how he had been mistreated by the refs first (which while absolutely true, also doesn't mitigate the utter boneheadedness of what he did next).

The reason that they all subsequently characterized the exchange as "talking about the refs" is because that's the closest possible characterization they could give without a) blatantly contradicting what the camera showed and b) airing their dirty laundry in public.

Any other interpretation is asinine, and self-serving.

 

[EdJovanovski]

OMFG, talk about bending the narrative to fit your preconceived notions.

The argument was obviously first Quinn, and then Ruff, coming over to say "nice goal, Tony, but that doesn't change the fact that you royally ****ed up taking that penalty; I don't care if you did score when you got out of the box, you can't be taking calls like that."

Followed by hothead Tony, unable to just accept their (obviously 100% correct) assessment and return a "yes, sir, I'll do better" as he should, then mouthing off at his coaches about how he had been mistreated by the refs first (which while absolutely true, also doesn't mitigate the utter boneheadedness of what he did next).

The reason that they all subsequently characterized the exchange as "talking about the refs" is because that's the closest possible characterization they could give without a) blatantly contradicting what the camera showed and b) airing their dirty laundry in public.

Any other interpretation is asinine, and self-serving.

You saw what Vince Mercogliano said right? And a bunch of people on Twitter who were sitting right by them and saw it, I don’t know what motivation they’d have to cover up for them. I don’t really get why they would’ve been in an altercation, I don’t see the coach getting mad at him about the penalty when he just scored




Even if it were him & the coach arguing though, that happens all the time with any player. As someone who’s grown up playing hockey I’ve had plenty of arguments with coaches yelling at me lol it’s an intense game and things get heated. Regardless of what happened if Quinn is saying it was nothing, then I don’t think we should be concerned

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

You saw what Vince Mercogliano said right? And a bunch of people on Twitter who were sitting right by them and saw it, I don’t know what motivation they’d have to cover up for them. I don’t really get why they would’ve been in an altercation, I don’t see the coach getting mad at him about the penalty when he just scored




Even if it were him & the coach arguing though, that happens all the time with any player. As someone who’s grown up playing hockey I’ve had plenty of arguments with coaches yelling at me lol it’s an intense game and things get heated. Regardless of what happened if Quinn is saying it was nothing, then I don’t think we should be concerned

None of this is inconsistent with what I wrote.

I'm not saying he told Quinn to go f*** himself; I'm saying Quinn came over to say, "Ton, that was a shit penalty, don't do it again" (note: Quinn was not yelling), and Tony's response was (rather than to accept his coach's extremely correct and reasonable critique) to scream back "did you see what that f***ing asshole missed?!?!" Which is doubtless what the nearby fans heard, and entirely consistent with what they reported. (And also, completely missing the point.)

Go back and watch the clip. Quinn comes over to give ADA the tough love. ADA blows up and gesticulates at the refs. Quinn sticks with it for a bit and then walks away. After which Ruff comes over to essentially tell Tony to calm down.

None of which, by the way, precludes the fact that they may well have hashed it out after the game and/or that Quinn may not see it as a long-term problem. (Or your point that arguments happen on the bench!)

(Also, lose the f***ing "do you even play, bro?" argument. Mike Milbury played 12 years in the league and is a contender for worst GM of all time.)

 

[True Blue]

To be fair, Trouba's defensive play has not been good either, even accounting for him playing the tough minutes.

If you think Trouba has not handled it well, Fox and DeAngelo under similar circumstances would be unmitigated disasters.

 

[True Blue]

From all reports, Lundkvist projects as a potentially elite defense guy despite his size.

I do not supposed you can list any of these so-called reports can you? A link? Anything?

 

[True Blue]

I've conceded Trouba's minutes are indeed tougher but you and others are acting like Trouba is playing a different game out there and carrying the weight of the world in his minutes.

Trouba's time and situational usage is in a different league than what Fox & DeNelo are getting. The two of them only look so good because they get sheltered minutes, given the role that Trouba playes.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Trouba's time and situational usage is in a different league than what Fox & DeNelo are getting. The two of them only look so good because they get sheltered minutes, given the role that Trouba playes.

Trouba has been OK, but they paid him like an elite 2-way defenseman, and he really hasn't been that.

The problem with the defense is a little bit of everything - structure and personnel. But placing big bets on Sjkei and Trouba could be the biggest long-term issue.

 

[Thirty One]

Tony was clearly yelling towards the referee, who, for whatever reason was standing right behind Quinn. Quinn was leaning in, towards DeAngelo, but only incidentally, because he lost his balance.

Come on, the video is clearly the two of them having a (apparently brief) spat. Not a big deal, but let's trust the visual evidence.

 

[Raspewtin]

If you think Trouba has not handled it well, Fox and DeAngelo under similar circumstances would be unmitigated disasters.

Why? Because you said so?

 

[JimmyG89]

Man, the amount of salt on that other board is amazing. Fine, don't call the crosscheck on Brassard, just call the kneeing on Boychuk. There is your balance. They knew they missed the other call and that ref made up for it. Works for me.

Islanders are a classic Trotz team. No firepower, but they play their system correctly. Their pace right now is to just miss out on the playoffs and I would love to see it.

 

[DanielBrassard]

If you think Trouba has not handled it well, Fox and DeAngelo under similar circumstances would be unmitigated disasters.

It's possible, although I think Fox would do fine against almost any competition, he is such a heady player. ADA would probably struggle defensively like he does now but he and Staal played the top minutes last season at times and he held his own.

In any case I don't know if the assertion that Trouba's performance couldn't be replicated by the other RHD we have is true and even if it is doesn't mean Trouba has been particularly good.

 

[True Blue]

Why? Because you said so?

And the contrarian view is because you said so?

You really think that DeAngelo and Fox are superior defensively to Trouba?

 

[nyr2k2]

Trouba has been OK, but they paid him like an elite 2-way defenseman, and he really hasn't been that.

The problem with the defense is a little bit of everything - structure and personnel. But placing big bets on Sjkei and Trouba could be the biggest long-term issue.

I think if you took Staal out of the equation and added a legitimate #4 LD in that spot, it would help everyone. But more importantly, if the forwards knew how to back check and not lose their man in front of the net and cover the points and everything, I think everyone--especially Trouba and Skjei--would look better.

I actually think that our defense sucks, but that the primary culprit is not the defensive personnel. I think with what we have, we should be average defensively. Staal is the only paperweight on the unit. DeAngelo sucks defensively but they do a good job covering it up. A more structured defensive system with better defensive forward I think would go a long way. And I don't think the D-unit needs to be radically overhauled. Really don't think the struggles are on them.

 

[True Blue]

It's possible, although I think Fox would do fine against almost any competition, he is such a heady player. ADA would probably struggle defensively like he does now but he and Staal played the top minutes last season at times and he held his own.

Except that neither Fox or DeAngelo has fared well defensively. We have remarked as much all year. They cannot clear the net, are exceptionally weak along the boards and cannot emerge from a corner battle with a puck.

Fox is an intelligent player, no doubt about that. And I am sure that that will allow for him to be an adequate defender. But right now, he is not. And as for DeAngelo, there's a reason that we have been saying that with his point production, you learn to live with the defensive warts.

 

[nyr2k2]

Except that neither Fox or DeAngelo has fared well defensively. We have remarked as much all year. They cannot clear the net, are exceptionally weak along the boards and cannot emerge from a corner battle with a puck.

Fox is an intelligent player, no doubt about that. And I am sure that that will allow for him to be an adequate defender. But right now, he is not. And as for DeAngelo, there's a reason that we have been saying that with his point production, you learn to live with the defensive warts.

I think Fox is pretty decent defensively. DeAngelo's weakness is...his weakness, which unfortunately isn't going to improve, though he seems reasonably smart back there. He could learn some technique from guys like Trouba, Lindgren, or Staal (seriously) who are good in the corners. I don't know if he'll ever get to "average" defensively, but he could definitely pick up some things that would help him. Fox I think will end up being considered an above-average defender, mainly because he's so smart. He could also conceivably bulk up another 5-10 pounds, which would help. If he could play at 190, that would be great.