Player Discussion Tony DeAngelo: Part IV

[Sayba]

I never said he shouldn’t get his money lol

I was essentially agreeing with your post but the pain in the ass part is on the Rangers for not looking him up, not Tony for wanting to be paid a decent contract for his worth.

 

[17futurecap]

Wonder if the Rangers just take him to arbitration, and ask for a 2 year deal, and then that still leaves him as an RFA for 1 more year.

 

[Larrybiv]

I mean all the stats nerds who never watch or play hockey could tell he was an excellent bounce back candidate and that buying him out was short sighted and stupid when Staal and Smith were obviously better buyout candidates.

That may be true but where would Tony D and Fox be, had we kept Shattenkirk? Good question huh?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

And there were people here who honestly thought Staal was better than Shattenkirk.

 

[True Blue]

I was essentially agreeing with your post but the pain in the ass part is on the Rangers for not looking him up, not Tony for wanting to be paid a decent contract for his worth.

BTW, for what it is worth, ADA is hardly pricing himself out of the Rangers plans. Let's not forget, it is not like he is a UFA. He is RFA for a few years. If Gorton & JD cannot stucture a deal with the agent, they can just go to arbitration. DeAngelo's agent will ask for X, the Rangers will counter with Y and give the market comps. Somewhere in the, a deal can be made. If Gorton wants to structure a deal at $5.5-$6 long term and DeAngelo balks, arbitration it will be. Then as the Rangers cap situation works itself out, another deal can be struck.

It is not like someone is coming along to give Tony DeAngelo an offer sheet to pay him as if he is Trouba. And honestly, if someone was to offersheet him to a $5m deal after a season of let's say 55 points, that can be an easy thing for Gorton and JD to decide to match. Offer sheets do not contain NTCs or NMCs.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

BTW, for what it is worth, ADA is hardly pricing himself out of the Rangers plans. Let's not forget, it is not like he is a UFA. He is RFA for a few years. If Gorton & JD cannot stucture a deal with the agent, they can just go to arbitration. DeAngelo's agent will ask for X, the Rangers will counter with Y and give the market comps. Somewhere in the, a deal can be made. If Gorton wants to structure a deal at $5.5-$6 long term and DeAngelo balks, arbitration it will be. Then as the Rangers cap situation works itself out, another deal can be struck.

It is not like someone is coming along to give Tony DeAngelo an offer sheet to pay him as if he is Trouba. And honestly, if someone was to offersheet him to a $5m deal after a season of let's say 55 points, that can be an easy thing for Gorton and JD to decide to match. Offer sheets do not contain NTCs or NMCs.

Dont want to pay a third pair dman 5-6 million a year, that's the problem.

 

[True Blue]

Dont want to pay a third pair dman 5-6 million a year, that's the problem.

If he is a 20 goal, 60 point player he is quite a bit more than just a third pair player. How many such players can you name that play RD? At that point, you learn to live with the warts.

Let's put it this way, if the Rangers potentially would be asking for Nylander as a return, do you really think that such a conversation is had if the player involved is a third pair defenseman?

 

[Shesterkybomb]

If he is a 20 goal, 60 point player he is quite a bit more than just a third pair player. How many such players can you name that play RD? At that point, you learn to live with the warts.

Let's put it this way, if the Rangers potentially would be asking for Nylander as a return, do you really think that such a conversation is had if the player involved is a third pair defenseman?

It's not the warts, he is just not getting in front of Trouba and Fox for the next number of years. I like DeAngelo but it doesnt make sense to pay him 5 or 6 mill if he is 3rd on the depth chart on the right side with a few prospects we could have in that spot for league minimum. If he could play left side I might consider it.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

If he is a 20 goal, 60 point player he is quite a bit more than just a third pair player. How many such players can you name that play RD? At that point, you learn to live with the warts.

Let's put it this way, if the Rangers potentially would be asking for Nylander as a return, do you really think that such a conversation is had if the player involved is a third pair defenseman?

I doubt they could ask for Nylander for DeAngelo. Kapanen maybe.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Dont want to pay a third pair dman 5-6 million a year, that's the problem.

Lmao, 3rd pair?

get real, how can we take your opinions serious now?

 

[nyr2k2]

Lmao, 3rd pair?

get real, how can we take your opinions serious now?

If he literally means that DeAngelo is a third pairing defenseman in quality, that's crazy.

If it's a concern about paying a guy who plays on your third pair big bucks (if we considered Trouba and Fox ahead of him), I at least understand the logic, as you end up with a ton of money tied up just at that one spot. And I do think this is what he's saying.

But even then, Fox doesn't get his payday for awhile, so I don't know why it would matter.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Lmao, 3rd pair?

get real, how can we take your opinions serious now?

He is on our 3rd pair no? He isnt getting ahead of Trouba and Fox due to his defensive abilities.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

He is on our 3rd pair no? He isnt getting ahead of Trouba and Fox due to his defensive abilities.

Ok so he is on the 3rd pairing because we are blessed with great RD right now but you as well as everyone know he is not a bottom pair dman. He averages almost 18:33 minutes a game. With multiple games over 20 minutes. He also is our #1 PP QB.

Sooner or later Fox or someone will play on their off side.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

If he literally means that DeAngelo is a third pairing defenseman in quality, that's crazy.

If it's a concern about paying a guy who plays on your third pair big bucks (if we considered Trouba and Fox ahead of him), I at least understand the logic, as you end up with a ton of money tied up just at that one spot. And I do think this is what he's saying.

But even then, Fox doesn't get his payday for awhile, so I don't know why it would matter.

It matters only because we need that money for other players later on. In 21-22 we have 6 players signed, for over 34 million. Which leaves 46-50 mill to sign everyone else, sounds like a lot but divide that number by 16 and consider Kakko, Fox, Chytil, etc will all need deals then. Paying DeAngelo 5 or 6 mill to play on our 3rd pair while Lundqvist and Keane sit in limbo makes zero sense.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Ok so he is on the 3rd pairing because we are blessed with great RD right now but you as well as everyone know he is not a bottom pair dman. He averages almost 18:33 minutes a game. With multiple games over 20 minutes. He also is our #1 PP QB.

Sooner or later Fox or someone will play on their off side.

Sooner or later Fox will take the #1 pp, that's where this is all headed imo. I like him but not enough to commit long term on a 5 or 6 mill contract that people are talking about here. 5 years 3 or 4 mill, sign me up.

 

[True Blue]

It's not the warts, he is just not getting in front of Trouba and Fox for the next number of years.

No one is getting in front of Trouba and Fox has yet to demonstrate that he can produce the same type of offense. Why would he? He is a rookie.

I like DeAngelo but it doesnt make sense to pay him 5 or 6 mill if he is 3rd on the depth chart on the right side with a few prospects we could have in that spot for league minimum. If he could play left side I might consider it.

How many 60 point defensemen are there every year? How many of them get traded at such a young age?

Sorry, but Fox has not quite produced this way yet and is FAR from a defensive standout. Perhaps we should see how things unfold?

I doubt they could ask for Nylander for DeAngelo.

That is exactly the kind of impact young player they would ask for and expect to get. Again, this is all providing that DeAngelo is indeed becoming that type of player.

Paying DeAngelo 5 or 6 mill to play on our 3rd pair while Lundqvist and Keane sit in limbo makes zero sense.

What makes no sense is predicating a DeAngelo money debate on a player that is not even in North America and another one that is in the AHL. What further makes no sense is not taking into account arbitration or entry level contacts. Beyond that, what makes no sense is believing that said players will produce at least as well as DeAngelo. Based on what?

 

[True Blue]

But even then, Fox doesn't get his payday for awhile, so I don't know why it would matter.

That is one of the points that I am making. Who cares? This is creating a problem where one does not exist. Fox is on his ECL for quite a while longer. If DeAngelo's demands are out of sync, the Rangers can go to arbitration for several years. Are we really debating what MIGHT occur in another 3 years and stating that we should act on that now?

Sure Gorton would trade DeAngelo. But only if the right deal came along. Same can be said about probably everyone not named Kakko, ZBad, Panarin or Trouba.

 

[leetch99]

Something I had posted in the Roster Building Thread....crazy?LOL.... It is out there for sure but not unfathomable by any means . I think ADA has that kind of skill set to utilize and would always be up for a challenge .

"We just KEEP ADA and make him our 3rd line Center ...PPQB and Rover when he is needed . The way the Cap is going these days if you can find a guy that can play up and back...you have something worth keeping !!! This kid has wheels...wicked passing skills and vision and some nastiness.....WTF other skills would we require for a third line Center ...he would drive an opposing Center absolutely crazy in a checking/shutdown role . He can skate with anyone . The only skill he would need to work on would be draws !!! And....with his hand eye coordination I think he would be a dandy at that too . Let's not be so quick to ship him out for a fair return.....he might just be the answer to a lot of our problems . I think he could play the position like a Doug Gilmour...same tenacity and skill set . LOL....well maybe not quite Gilmour like....but he could come close to it he has that kind of skill set and with a Buch on his wing ....who knows ??? Could be the makings of a league best checking line we lack . Solve some of our defensive woes as well . "

 

[Rongomania]

If Tony signs for a reasonable number you only trade him, as many have said, when Fox needs his big money day.

Also, if Tony remains a 50-60 pt damn, and signed reasonably, that's worth a top five pick or Matt F'ing Tkachuk/Nylander.

You don't take less than an overpayment for that guy, also who gives a f*** if he/Troubda/Foxy rotate all over. What a sexy problem to have.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

If Tony signs for a reasonable number you only trade him, as many have said, when Fox needs his big money day.

Also, if Tony remains a 50-60 pt damn, and signed reasonably, that's worth a top five pick or Matt F'ing Tkachuk/Nylander.

You don't take less than an overpayment for that guy, also who gives a f*** if he/Troubda/Foxy rotate all over. What a sexy problem to have.

He has never been a 60 point player, sounds like everyone in here is his agent. He couldn't stay in the lineup last year and has started the year strong offensively.

 

[Rongomania]

He has never been a 60 point player, sounds like everyone in here is his agent. He couldn't stay in the lineup last year and has started the year strong offensively.

I would argue 30% of the season is a pretty large sample size. Hoping he keeps up this pace.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I would argue 30% of the season is a pretty large sample size. Hoping he keeps up this pace.

That's actually the definition of small sample size but I agree I hope he does. Just a question, what a fair salary for him in your opinion, and what do you think he would want for a salary? Are they the same? That's where the problem comes in

 

[Levitate]

That's actually the definition of small sample size but I agree I hope he does. Just a question, what a fair salary for him in your opinion, and what do you think he would want for a salary? Are they the same? That's where the problem comes in

Why even bother talking about salary if we can't try to project what his point otals are going to be?

Look, if he continues on this pace and scores 55-60 points being used in his current role...that's worth a good chunk of change. It just is, regardless of whether he's "3rd pair" or what. You put up those points as a defenseman you're going to get rewarded for it. If his production drops and he finishes around 40 points or something, that's still not shabby but he's also going to be commanding far less in that case.


what's fair is going to vary by what kind of production he finishes the season with.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Why even bother talking about salary if we can't try to project what his point otals are going to be?

Look, if he continues on this pace and scores 55-60 points being used in his current role...that's worth a good chunk of change. It just is, regardless of whether he's "3rd pair" or what. You put up those points as a defenseman you're going to get rewarded for it. If his production drops and he finishes around 40 points or something, that's still not shabby but he's also going to be commanding far less in that case.


what's fair is going to vary by what kind of production he finishes the season with.

You see my problem is that everyone says to sign him, they dont wanna talk dollars and cap space, I'd agree that we should absolutely sign him but what I feel his value is playing on the 3rd pair and what he feels his value is, getting 40-whatever points are gonna be so far apart it's never going to happen. If he is on our 3rd pair he cant eat up 5+ mill,it just wont work especially if we got guys that can take those minutes for league minimum. I absolutely believe Fox is better now, and will be much better later as more of a complete player. So if we pay DeAngelo 5+ what do we pay Fox when he needs a contract? I'd be ecstatic if he signed for 3 years at 2.5-3 per year, but I think we both agree he is worth more than that on the open market.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]