Player Discussion Tony DeAngelo (MOD WARNINGS: Post #12/#900)

[eco's bones]

If we're carrying 8D--barring injuries there is going to be some in and out of the lineup stuff going on. Some of our D--ADA, McQuaid, Claesson are already kind of use to that so it might work but don't be surprised at seeing Pionk here and DeAngelo there being scratched. If we carry 8 D that shit is going to happen.....and if someone's struggling it will probably happen more often to them.

 

[Rongomania]

Yeah I get it, I'm not making it an ADA vs. Pionk thing. I just see a lot of people suggest that it simply AV that was behind Pionk big minutes, whereas I think it was much more of an organizational thing, given that AV was basically a lame duck at that point and then Gorton brought Pionk to the Championships. That was my only point.

Yeah, it’s not an ADA v. Pionk thing. It’s not one or the other. We’re all pulling for them to both be huge parts of this team moving forward and they are just in time. I also agree that the org is in love with all things Pionk and that they like ADA just the same, except he’s a totally different animal. Just exciting times man.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

If we're carrying 8D--barring injuries there is going to be some in and out of the lineup stuff going on. Some of our D--ADA, McQuaid, Claesson are already kind of use to that so it might work but don't be surprised at seeing Pionk here and DeAngelo there being scratched. If we carry 8 D that **** is going to happen.....and if someone's struggling it will probably happen more often to them.

I always hated when for example Girardi would play injured instead of resting and letting somebody else who is 100% healthy play instead, so maybe with 8 Dmen on the roster we won't have that problem anymore.

 

[eco's bones]

I always hated when for example Girardi would play injured instead of resting and letting somebody else who is 100% healthy play instead, so maybe with 8 Dmen on the roster we won't have that problem anymore.

Girardi wasn't the man deciding whether to put himself into the lineup. The coaching staff makes the decisions of whether to play a player or not.....and if he's banged up the medical staff gets a say too and if the medical staff okays hims then again it's back to the coaching staff to put the player in the lineup--or not. While I agree there were occasions that Girardi and the rest of the team would have benefited from resting him and allowing him to get over an injury IMO AV continued to keep sticking him in the lineup banged up or not anyway. And it's more understandable in a playoff situation to keep going with your best guys no matter what but in the regular season if you allow a player to continue playing with a major problem it's a lot more likely to haunt you later on.

AV played a shortsighted game with Girardi and his injuries. What is good for now/today took precedence over what might be better in the long run. Girardi in Tampa last year was used in a lot smarter way by Cooper and he responded well and had a pretty good season.

 

[TheTakedown]

I absolutely understand that. I am real high on Pionk as well, I just think ADA wasn’t given as fair of a shake as NP while AV was here. I understand ADA is not a defensive whiz kid like NP, but as we all know, with a defenseman in ADA’s mold, you’ve got to live with the growing pains, and I believe Quinn has that plan now. I’m just excited that we’ve got both of these guys.

This. I'm not sure why we keep doing the "Pionk vs DeAngelo" argument right now. Both guys are going to be good middle pairing guys, and ADA has potential to hit top pairing in the right scenario. Shattenkirk, Smith, and Staal are all older, and there's not much in the pipeline for immediate RD help (the 2018 draft picks are at least 2-3 years away)...

There will be room for both of these guys.

 

[offdacrossbar]

as far as offensive dmen go, take look around the league, not gonna name all the names but we know many like EK, - 6 ft 190, ghost- 5'11 180 , kruger-5'9 186 and ryan ellis - 5'10 180 all these guys are smallish, offensive first creators who give something up in the Dzone and make up for it with their stick skills, skating and creativity.

i see no reason why ADA cannot join that group. skills wise, hes right there. the no tool box thing is a joke. kid is smart and talented. given a top 6 role with regular playing time, I've no doubt he will join that group above and while perhaps not at that level yet, he can work his way into the conversation.

with a coach who allows for some calculated gambling and play making while not over reacting to a gaff or two and benching him, this kid should flourish with added ice and some man up point time.

the points will come by way of primary assists and, hopefully, line mates who can finish.

 

[Ori]

He is doing very well now, and hopefully a successful season for him with coach Quinn.

 

[Rongomania]

Yeah, as of now with Hajek, ADA & Pionk, were developing such a solid group of D-men and I think that the jury is still out on Skjei & Smith; where Skjei will solidify himself fully, any more growth, etc & which Brendan Smith will we be getting this season? We can out of no here have a lights out group coming up on the back end. Let’s hope we continue to see this growth through progress on the ice.

It is a tremendously strange feeling going into this season so, insanely excited for these kids to develop in front of us, yet I pretty much am locked into believing that we’re going to pretty much get smashed night in and night out.

 

[haveandare]

Yeah, as of now with Hajek, ADA & Pionk, were developing such a solid group of D-men and I think that the jury is still out on Skjei & Smith; where Skjei will solidify himself fully, any more growth, etc & which Brendan Smith will we be getting this season? We can out of no here have a lights out group coming up on the back end. Let’s hope we continue to see this growth through progress on the ice.

It is a tremendously strange feeling going into this season so, insanely excited for these kids to develop in front of us, yet I pretty much am locked into believing that we’re going to pretty much get smashed night in and night out.

Eh, like a few other people have said, I'll be happy if the team plays hard, the kids grow and the coach runs an actual meritocracy. If we lose games doing that, it's alright as weird as it sounds. That stuff is foundational for the years ahead.

 

[mrmovies779]

as far as offensive dmen go, take look around the league, not gonna name all the names but we know many like EK, - 6 ft 190, ghost- 5'11 180 , kruger-5'9 186 and ryan ellis - 5'10 180 all these guys are smallish, offensive first creators who give something up in the Dzone and make up for it with their stick skills, skating and creativity.

i see no reason why ADA cannot join that group. skills wise, hes right there. the no tool box thing is a joke. kid is smart and talented. given a top 6 role with regular playing time, I've no doubt he will join that group above and while perhaps not at that level yet, he can work his way into the conversation.

Unfortunately his shot isnt good enough to get him anywhere near the group you mentioned.Those guys you mentioned all have 1 huge thing in common-terrific shots that lead to goals/points.ADA doesnt.I dont know if he could ever get to where you think he can.I would love to be proven wrong though.

 

[JimmyG89]

As has been mentioned a bunch of times by myself and others, Gorton also brought Pionk along to the WC. I think the organization is really high on Pionk, and it wasn't just an AV thing.

I think that could also be viewed as a way of rewarding him for his strong finish, but also seeing how he plays under a different coach and atmosphere.

ADA has played for a few coaches, and he was also hurt. Pionk only played for AV. After firing him, it was a nice way to see how he'd produce on a bigger stage and under different guidance.

I still say ADA is pretty far ahead of Pionk. Tonight's game is important for both, but I already see DeAngelo taking this and running with it. He's going to get 2nd pairing minutes and 2PP minutes this season, whether some people like it or not, because they need to know what they have at this point.

 

[Rongomania]

Eh, like a few other people have said, I'll be happy if the team plays hard, the kids grow and the coach runs an actual meritocracy. If we lose games doing that, it's alright as weird as it sounds. That stuff is foundational for the years ahead.

Exactly. Building block year, where everyone gives it everything, but we need a lot of growth. No Edmonton style “Throw everyone into that fire immediately NO MATTER WHAT!!!”

So far Quinn has pretty much said and done all of the right things and I am digging that.

But... Tony D, yeah!

He definitely playin’ TN or what??

 

[The S5]

Yeah, as of now with Hajek, ADA & Pionk, were developing such a solid group of D-men and I think that the jury is still out on Skjei & Smith; where Skjei will solidify himself fully, any more growth, etc & which Brendan Smith will we be getting this season? We can out of no here have a lights out group coming up on the back end. Let’s hope we continue to see this growth through progress on the ice.

It is a tremendously strange feeling going into this season so, insanely excited for these kids to develop in front of us, yet I pretty much am locked into believing that we’re going to pretty much get smashed night in and night out.

So, the jury is out on Skjei, but you are sold on ADA?
Look, I am as excited about the group of young defensemen as anyone, but I think we are getting WAY ahead of ourselves with regard to ADA. He has looked better this camp. More confident and seems to be better in his own end, but, at this stage, he is John Moore, not Ghost. As a skilled, offensive defensemen, he needs to put up points to make up for his defensive deficiencies. When he starts doing that, he will move himself into a different category.

It is clear to me anyway, that the organization values Pionk higher than ADA, and I agree. Pionk is more productive and plays a harder game.

 

[offdacrossbar]

So, the jury is out on Skjei, but you are sold on ADA?
Look, I am as excited about the group of young defensemen as anyone, but I think we are getting WAY ahead of ourselves with regard to ADA. He has looked better this camp. More confident and seems to be better in his own end, but, at this stage, he is John Moore, not Ghost. As a skilled, offensive defensemen, he needs to put up points to make up for his defensive deficiencies. When he starts doing that, he will move himself into a different category.

It is clear to me anyway, that the organization values Pionk higher than ADA, and I agree. Pionk is more productive and plays a harder game.

not sure where you are seeing this pionk value over ADA. ADA is the more skilled while pionk is the more 2 way balanced dman. i think this organization really likes BOTH of them, as they should.

john moore is nothing like ADA. wasnt when he was here or when he was with the devils. john moore is an effortless skater with great size and skill but hes not sure where to go or what to do most of the time.

ADA and john moore are nothing alike. ADA is smarter, more creative , calmer with the puck and certainly has a better understanding of the offensive zone.

points = minutes played plus pp time.

you give ADA and Pionk that and they both will produce.

still believe of the 2 players, ADA is the more skilled and to me, skill = points.

 

[NYR Viper]

It's unfortunate that this argument has turned into a Pionk vs ADA. To me, play both. If Quinn wants McQuaid and Shattenkirk in the line-up to start the season, the natural choice is to send Pionk down just to get both guys playing time. Later in the season when there is an injury or someone is dealt to create space, bring up Pionk.

To me, it's not even that one is head and shoulders over the other, because I don't think either player is, it's about keeping the assets and having them continue to develop.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

It's unfortunate that this argument has turned into a Pionk vs ADA. To me, play both. If Quinn wants McQuaid and Shattenkirk in the line-up to start the season, the natural choice is to send Pionk down just to get both guys playing time. Later in the season when there is an injury or someone is dealt to create space, bring up Pionk.

To me, it's not even that one is head and shoulders over the other, because I don't think either player is, it's about keeping the assets and having them continue to develop.

I don't think Quinn is that crazy, Pionk is one of our best if not the best Dmen.

 

[offdacrossbar]

I don't think Quinn is that crazy, Pionk is one of our best if not the best Dmen.

if true we are doomed

 

[The S5]

not sure where you are seeing this pionk value over ADA. ADA is the more skilled while pionk is the more 2 way balanced dman. i think this organization really likes BOTH of them, as they should.

john moore is nothing like ADA. wasnt when he was here or when he was with the devils. john moore is an effortless skater with great size and skill but hes not sure where to go or what to do most of the time.

ADA and john moore are nothing alike. ADA is smarter, more creative , calmer with the puck and certainly has a better understanding of the offensive zone.

points = minutes played plus pp time.

you give ADA and Pionk that and they both will produce.

still believe of the 2 players, ADA is the more skilled and to me, skill = points.

I agree that ADA is the more skilled player, but I do think Pionk is more ready to play in the NHL. That said, if it makes more sense from a contractual perspective to play ADA and send Pionk to AHL, so be it. This team isn't going anywhere this year anyway.

 

[offdacrossbar]

I agree that ADA is the more skilled player, but I do think Pionk is more ready to play in the NHL. That said, if it makes more sense from a contractual perspective to play ADA and send Pionk to AHL, so be it. This team isn't going anywhere this year anyway.

they will both play. and they will both be productive. develop the kids and play the best players.

and agree, team going no where right now.

 

[BearishRiggs]

it’s funny to say but you almost wish McQuaid was left handed. He deserves to play over Staal and Pionk/ADA both should be in the lineup.

 

[aufheben]

if true we are doomed

I don’t understand why some people are so high on his defense. It seems like forwards beat him on the outside easily.

Still, both should be in ahead of McQuaid. Dude looks like he can't even make a pass.

 

[NYR Viper]

it’s funny to say but you almost wish McQuaid was left handed. He deserves to play over Staal and Pionk/ADA both should be in the lineup.

McQuaid played on the left side in his only pre-season game. He can play both sides

 

[Rangers in 7]

I don't think Quinn is that crazy, Pionk is one of our best if not the best Dmen.

that is a reach, pionk gets wayyyyy too much praise on this board, hes a good young player but lets pump the breaks on him a bit

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

if true we are doomed

I mean, it’s not true, but we’re still doomed

 

[offdacrossbar]

I don’t understand why some people are so high on his defense. It seems like forwards beat him on the outside easily.

Still, both should be in ahead of McQuaid. Dude looks like he can't even make a pass.

correct.

he rarely wins puck battles along the wall. hes frequently outmuscled and his defensive reads and gaps are, like all young dmen, a work in progress.