Prospect Info: Tom Willander: 11th Overall 2023 Draft (Rogle BK J20) - Part 02

[Jerry the great]

Both Howard and Willander have leverage on signing because neither has an absolute clear path to a Top 6 or Top 4 role at the NHL level immediately.

So unless they get all their bonus clauses AND effectively get guaranteed a spot, they know that by going back another year (or even threatening it) has almost no downside.

The risk is an injury but that's always a potential risk.

Just like McGroarty was supposedly looking for right?

After getting traded, he: didn't burn a year, didn't get full bonuses and spent most of the year in the AHL.

The number of kids actually willing to run out the 4 year clock is small (because it makes way more sense to get going on your NHL career than it does to defer it).

Willander holding out for a 4th schedule A would be hilariously stupid....because if not doing that (and signing now for ~$1.75MM AAV) actually ended up costing him $250k, it would be an absolutely massive win for him financially. The Canucks need to sell him on the prospect of playing with Hughes where he has a legitimate chance of actually hitting some of those triggers.

 

[Jerry the great]

 

[Breakers]

Time value of money

he would get $270K in bonuses and before he could get a dime from a new team

 

[Vector]

Looks like the good college prospects are starting to discover they can control their own destiny if they wait out 4 years.

Starting to? It's been a thing for quite a while.

The major downside is the lost development time and lesser contracts to start their career. What they are discovering is they can just tell a team they aren't signing with them and that forces a trade to somewhere preferable.

 

[Jerry the great]

Time value of money

he would get $270K in bonuses and before he could get a dime from a new team

If i were him, I'd wait until after the draft, come to dev camp (if he's still a Canuck) and sign the ELC being offered. It'll be the new league year, so he gets a cheque for his signing bonus and and he can do his fist media session as a professional hockey player.

 

[Jerry the great]

View attachment 1028263

The structure of those first two years might be:

year one - 2 x As + GP bonuses up to $50K

year two - 3 x As + GP bonuses up to $50k

 

[Attack Vector]

Starting to? It's been a thing for quite a while.

The major downside is the lost development time and lesser contracts to start their career. What they are discovering is they can just tell a team they aren't signing with them and that forces a trade to somewhere preferable.

Yes its been a thing for quite a while but it wasn't used as leverage to this degree for first round draft picks.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Just like McGroarty was supposedly looking for right?

After getting traded, he: didn't burn a year, didn't get full bonuses and spent most of the year in the AHL.

The number of kids actually willing to run out the 4 year clock is small (because it makes way more sense to get going on your NHL career than it does to defer it).

Willander holding out for a 4th schedule A would be hilariously stupid....because if not doing that (and signing now for ~$1.75MM AAV) actually ended up costing him $250k, it would be an absolutely massive win for him financially. The Canucks need to sell him on the prospect of playing with Hughes where he has a legitimate chance of actually hitting some of those triggers.

View attachment 1028258

View attachment 1028259

Hughes could be gone very quickly.

Also, mgmt can’t guarantee him anything as far as playing time in the NHL.

Part of it is money and part is opportunity.

They probably f*** around with the money aspect previously and now have pissed off the player and agent.

Mgmt has a precedent of not offering what the player wants (or even close to), pissing them off and then being surprised when they match at the last moment but the players mind is already made up.

 

[Jerry the great]

Hughes could be gone very quickly.

Also, mgmt can’t guarantee him anything as far as playing time in the NHL.

Part of it is money and part is opportunity.

They probably f*** around with the money aspect previously and now have pissed off the player and agent.

Mgmt has a precedent of not offering what the player wants (or even close to), pissing them off and then being surprised when they match at the last moment but the players mind is already made up.

You're the one that brought up guaranteeing a spot, not me.

It is ALL about money...well not even money, it's about potential money. A bonuses. this has been confirmed multiple times now.

This precedent you're referring to is with soon to be UFAs, not players eligible for an ELC. The only player fitting your description was Zadorov (already had eyes on Boston), who they didn't immediately throw a massive contract at.

 

[HairyKneel]

Hughes could be gone very quickly.

Also, mgmt can’t guarantee him anything as far as playing time in the NHL.

Part of it is money and part is opportunity.

They probably f*** around with the money aspect previously and now have pissed off the player and agent.

Mgmt has a precedent of not offering what the player wants (or even close to), pissing them off and then being surprised when they match at the last moment but the players mind is already made up.

So they should just give him what he wants? Rutherford already said the contract is inline with what last year's 11th overall pick got. There's enough other shit to gripe about.

They 'have a precedent of not offering what the player wants' ...... JT Miller and Elias Pettersson disagree.

I think the kid wants an easy path to the show imho. Hronek is locked in. Myers has a couple of years left. And Mancini looks like a player.

If he doesn't like competition trade his ass.

 

[Vector]

So they should just give him what he wants? Rutherford already said the contract is inline with what last year's 11th overall pick got. There's enough other shit to gripe about.

They 'have a precedent of not offering what the player wants' ...... JT Miller and Elias Pettersson disagree.

I think the kid wants an easy path to the show imho. Hronek is locked in. Myers has a couple of years left. And Mancini looks like a player.

If he doesn't like competition trade his ass.

Everyone involved, including the player and the Canucks, have said the bolded is not the case at all.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

You're the one that brought up guaranteeing a spot, not me.

It is ALL about money...well not even money, it's about potential money. A bonuses. this has been confirmed multiple times now.

This precedent you're referring to is with soon to be UFAs, not players eligible for an ELC. The only player fitting your description was Zadorov (already had eyes on Boston), who they didn't immediately throw a massive contract at.

You literally said the Nucks need to sell him in playing with Hughes so he can hit his bonuses.

He ain’t doing that in the A nor if Hughes is gone.

So as much as it’s about money, it’s also about other things.

 

[Jerry the great]

So they should just give him what he wants? Rutherford already said the contract is inline with what last year's 11th overall pick got. There's enough other shit to gripe about.

They 'have a precedent of not offering what the player wants' ...... JT Miller and Elias Pettersson disagree.

I think the kid wants an easy path to the show imho. Hronek is locked in. Myers has a couple of years left. And Mancini looks like a player.

If he doesn't like competition trade his ass.

I don't even think it's really that.

I think his agent is trying for max A bonuses (it would be a feather in his cap), or close to it and knows he can create a ton of heat in the market just from feeding information (accurate or not) to Dhaliwal. And it's working. The local talking heads are squawking, the fanbase is joining in....it's a veritable squawk fest.

At the risk of sounding repetitive..... until the new league year, there's no real urgency to get anything done. he can play with the national team, potentially go to the worlds and then come to Canucks development camp in early July - which as of last report he was going to do - sign his ELC and immediately receive his $97,500 signing bonus.

 

[Jerry the great]

You literally said the Nucks need to sell him in playing with Hughes so he can hit his bonuses.

He ain’t doing that in the A nor if Hughes is gone.

So as much as it’s about money, it’s also about other things.

I never said anything about guaranteeing that outcome, but they should absolutely get him thinking about the prospect of it.

you said: So unless they get all their bonus clauses AND effectively get guaranteed a spot, they know that by going back another year (or even threatening it) has almost no downside.

 

[VancouverJagger]

I don't even think it's really that.

I think his agent is trying for max A bonuses (it would be a feather in his cap), or close to it and knows he can create a ton of heat in the market just from feeding information (accurate or not) to Dhaliwal. And it's working. The local talking heads are squawking, the fanbase is joining in....it's a veritable squawk fest.

At the risk of sounding repetitive..... until the new league year, there's no real urgency to get anything done. he can play with the national team, potentially go to the worlds and then come to Canucks development camp in early July - which as of last report he was going to do - sign his ELC and immediately receive his $97,500 signing bonus.

Yeah I'm not liking this Todd Diamond guy............maybe the Nucks felt they got bent over a bit by him with the Lankinen contract and as such have drawn a bit of a line in the sand here?

At some point it's obvious this is going to get done - however at this point with all this noise not entirely sure that Willander isn't going to be the guy they move althou I would look at ALL other options before him.

 

[Jerry the great]

Yeah I'm not liking this Todd Diamond guy............maybe the Nucks felt they got bent over a bit by him with the Lankinen contract and as such have drawn a bit of a line in the sand here?

At some point it's obvious this is going to get done - however at this point with all this noise not entirely sure that Willander isn't going to be the guy they move althou I would look at ALL other options before him.

Neither does Patrik Elias:

Devils C Patrik Elias Sues Former Agents Gandler And Diamond

By <a href="mailto:[email protected]">Liz Mullen</a> , Staff Writer, <i>SportsBusiness Journal </i> Devils C <b>PATRIK ELIAS</b> has sued former agents <b>MARK GANDLER</b> and <b>TODD DIAMOND</b> and their firm International Sports Advisors (ISA), for more than $2M, alleging...

www.sportsbusinessjournal.com

 

[mouser]

The structure of those first two years might be:

year one - 2 x As + GP bonuses up to $50K

year two - 3 x As + GP bonuses up to $50k

There are no Games Played bonuses in Sam Dickinson’s ELC.

We can determine that because the maximum annual compensation of Salary + Signing Bonus + GP bonus for his 2024 draft year ELC is $975k. Sam’s Salary + Signing Bonus add up to $975k every season, so the maximum possible room left is for GP bonuses is $0.

That’s a shorthanded trick you can use to check if a player might have unpublished GP bonuses on their ELC. Look for players whose NHL Salary is less than the maximum allowed in any given season, but who also have Performance Bonuses. Very likely those Performance Bonuses will include a GP bonus.

 

[VanJack]

With the building uncertainty of the Hughes situation, the Canucks can ill afford not to get Wilander under contract.

90 percent of the battle is actually drafting a kid with the potential to be an impact NHL d-man. The remaining 10 percent or less, is signing him to an ELC. It should be almost automatic.

So still betting he's at training camp in September with a newly-minted contract in his hip pocket.

 

[Oliewud]

Hold on a second.

The faction of people on here who seem to seek out information that they can then catastrophize after reading in a negative way, often based upon a ton of conjecture, are calling those of us who find their schtick exhausting 'sensitive'? Fascinating.

Also we're the ones with no real world experience. Those of us who can manage our emotions and consider multiple variables instead of hyper fixating on, oh say the media sensationalizing a slightly difficult negotiation with a college player 5 MONTHS before the season starts.

Yes, how dare we consider the possibility that things might work out.

love how you completely left out the context of the whole drama filled season LOL

as long as the owners have sheeps like you defending them we will be forever stuck in mediocrity

 

[Diablo2020]

Does Tom Willander not know that there is a faction of Canuck fans that have been sacrificing things to the gods for a decade for a homegrown solid RHD?

Like I will buy his jersey tomorrow, and fend off every trade proposal with his name attacthed for the next 15 years just to spite every Braden Schneider stan out there.

Literal years of scouring the market for RHD and praying for a modern day Peter Schaefer trade by many of us and he's at our fingertips.

If it turns out Tom thinks Tyler freaking Myers is blocking him or he cant find 20 minutes still with Hronek around so we can never play a Noah Juulsen type again I will actually never despise a player more than I will him.

You could RJ Umberger him for Martin freaking Rucinsky at that point and I wouldnt bat an eye.

But please plase please please dont screw this up. Give me this one thing, please o hockey gods.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Does anyone think this also looks bad on Willander and his camp?

The Canucks have not had problems signing college draft picks in years, but suddenly Willander's a problem?

The Canucks drafted Willander much higher than most boards/mocks and fully supported his unorthodox route to play in college instead of Sweden.

If Willander is truly willing to forgo turning pro (despite publicly stating that turning pro is his best development path) over some bonus structure that he likely won't reach... what does that say about him and his camp?

Bro could have been playing in the AHL playoffs and getting more games in his resume but choosing to hold out over bonuses he probably won't hit?

I don't agree with the people that just want to give him whatever he wants to get it done. These type of contracts have structure and guidelines. Team needs to hold firm when it comes to negotiating... how do you think we got Pius Suter at a discount? Lankinen at a discount? Sherwood at a discount? No one person should be holding the team hostage and this management team has clearly held the line, whether with the franchise player (EP) down a prospect (Willander).

I like Willander but if he's a problem signing the ELC then what do you think the headache level is going to be when he signs his first, second and third contract?

Willander's value as a top RD prospect is going to be huge. He could definitely land a young top six forward without hurting this team in the immediate future. Trading him is not the worst move here.

No. I dont think this makes him look bad at all.

 

[Hughes Clues]

Does anyone think this also looks bad on Willander and his camp?

The Canucks have not had problems signing college draft picks in years, but suddenly Willander's a problem?

The Canucks drafted Willander much higher than most boards/mocks and fully supported his unorthodox route to play in college instead of Sweden.

If Willander is truly willing to forgo turning pro (despite publicly stating that turning pro is his best development path) over some bonus structure that he likely won't reach... what does that say about him and his camp?

Bro could have been playing in the AHL playoffs and getting more games in his resume but choosing to hold out over bonuses he probably won't hit?

I don't agree with the people that just want to give him whatever he wants to get it done. These type of contracts have structure and guidelines. Team needs to hold firm when it comes to negotiating... how do you think we got Pius Suter at a discount? Lankinen at a discount? Sherwood at a discount? No one person should be holding the team hostage and this management team has clearly held the line, whether with the franchise player (EP) down a prospect (Willander).

I like Willander but if he's a problem signing the ELC then what do you think the headache level is going to be when he signs his first, second and third contract?

Willander's value as a top RD prospect is going to be huge. He could definitely land a young top six forward without hurting this team in the immediate future. Trading him is not the worst move here.

Yes I think both sides are being ridiculous and unreasonable.

 

[Fatass]

No pressure point to sign yet. Does he play in Europe and make 1/5th of what he will with Van? Does he go back to college when he’s ready to start making very good money as a pro?
Imo Willander will be signed and in the Van lineup for October 2025.

 

[Hughes Clues]

No pressure point to sign yet. Does he play in Europe and make 1/5th of what he will with Van? Does he go back to college when he’s ready to start making very good money as a pro?
Imo Willander will be signed and in the Van lineup for October 2025.

Agreed. Same agent as lankinen who signed very late initially. Willander and Canucks have already said he's coming to camp... Why would he pay his own way to camp if he wasn't intending on playing for this team.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Agreed. Same agent as lankinen who signed very late initially.

Because he was looking for the best opportunity to play and get a starter contract?

His agent served Lankinen perfectly.