Prospect Info: Tom Willander: 11th Overall 2023 Draft (Rogle BK J20) - Part 02

[Jerry the great]

I get that the honeymoon period with this management group is done and dusted, but I’m kind of surprised people are giving the player (and representation) a free ride here.

If he doesn’t want to sign an ELC with a performance bonus structure that is commensurate with his draft slot (uncommon outside of Russian players) and is threatening to return to college if the Canucks won’t give him a 4th schedule A, it’s not a great look IMO. Just like it would be a shitty look if the Canucks were only offering him $500k. Even MacGrosrty and Gauthier signed contracts with AAVs that were consistent with their draft position.

Maybe he should ditch cubic zirconia and get himself a new agent.

 

[Bleach Clean]

There was a slight bit of mockery when Allvin mentioned Willander's "advisor", Todd Diamond...

This is just speculation, but maybe that Lankinen negotiation was tough for management. They basically gave-in because Demko was uncertain to play. Generally, this is not their MO. They negotiate hard. Maybe this is their way of sticking it to the agent? Even if an agreement is reached, the struggle to get there could set the stage for future negotiations with TD. Just a theory.

$200k apart is hilariously stupid, but putting an agent through his paces may not be.

 

[ephmrl]

I refuse to get upset about this right now. Basically all the information we’re getting is from the agent and Willander.

 

[Vector]

the R.J Umberger fiasco was also a pathetic showing. All 1st rounders in his draft year was landing the rookie max, and by the time it stopped he wasn't even asking for rookie max. We gotta stop being subborn assholes. We need a mike Gillis again.

Evoking Gillis here isn't a panacea. He also was a stubborn asshole and refused to re-sign Ehrhoff to a perfectly reasonable contract because Gillis and Gilman decided that no defenceman could be paid higher than Bieksa. Same thing the current regime is doing.

 

[Rejavanated]

I get that the honeymoon period with this management group is done and dusted, but I’m kind of surprised people are giving the player (and representation) a free ride here.

If he doesn’t want to sign an ELC with a performance bonus structure that is commensurate with his draft slot (uncommon outside of Russian players) and is threatening to return to college if the Canucks won’t give him a 4th schedule A, it’s not a great look IMO. Just like it would be a shitty look if the Canucks were only offering him $500k. Even MacGrosrty and Gauthier signed contracts with AAVs that were consistent with their draft position.

Maybe he should ditch cubic zirconia and get himself a new agent.

Yeah, I've wondered the same thing myself. Negotiation is a two-way street.

I mean, what 20 year old turns down roughly $3M on the chance he squeezes out the maximum on his bonuses?

I'm really not picking a side here, but I'm a bit taken aback by the repeated suggestions that it's all management's fault because they won't concede to an unproven prospect.

 

[Blue and Green]

Yes that's what it means. So if Willander can earn an extra $850K in bonuses and he isn't on the opening day roster, you have to account for that extra $850K when you recall him. If like this season we want to accumulate cap space by staying under the cap throughout the season Willander's bonuses could cause issues. We could have Willander on the opening day roster since D-Petey and Mancini are both waivers exempt and if at least one of them is pencilled in for a spot the Canucks can easily get around this issue. If Willander is put onto the opening day roster his bonsuses go into a performance bonus relief pool.

I got this from reading a couple of articles from Canucks Army (discussing Podkolzin and Lekkerimaki's bonuses).

What you've described matters only if the team starts the season in LTIR. Under normal circumstances, it is only the bonuses that are actually earned that have any cap implications.

 

[me2]

Evoking Gillis here isn't a panacea. He also was a stubborn asshole and refused to re-sign Ehrhoff to a perfectly reasonable contract because Gillis and Gilman decided that no defenceman could be paid higher than Bieksa. Same thing the current regime is doing.

Sabres are still paying Ehrhoff and will be until 2028

 

[Vector]

Sabres are still paying Ehrhoff and will be until 2028

That was their call to offer that contract. The deal the Canucks and Ehrhoff were discussing was just a normal length one.

 

[Brookbank]

I don't know if that's true. The Ohlund contract negotiations were pretty rough and resulted in an offer sheet 4 years after getting drafted.

Burke offering to drive Trent Klatt to the airport would have been viewed as crazy now.

Ed Willis described Mile Gillis's first negotiations with the Sedins as playing with fire. The Leafs started flirting with them and then Mike flew to Sweden if I remember right

 

[Brookbank]

That was their call to offer that contract. The deal the Canucks and Ehrhoff were discussing was just a normal length one.

Erhoff was as good as gone because he wanted to cash in. And he got 10 million in salary

 

[Vector]

Ed Willis described Mile Gillis's first negotiations with the Sedins as playing with fire. The Leafs started flirting with them and then Mike flew to Sweden if I remember right

That’s exactly how it went down.

 

[VanJack]

Wilander is currently auditioning for the Swedish National team in the upcoming World Hockey Championships.

It would really be something if he could stick with that stacked Sweden lineup. And if he actually gets some playing time, it would probably do a ton more for his development than playing in Abbotsford.

It really will be a bummer if he's not on the ice for the Canucks at training camp in September.

 

[Cancuks]

Tocchet will jump ship for the Flyers. We'll end up bringing in a new coach who wants more skill, end up dealing all of the Tocchet type players, there'll be no chemistry next year and we'll be missing the playoffs again. Meanwhile, the Pens will get the #1 overall pick from the Rangers via the Canucks. Hughes won't re-sign and we'll be forced to deal him for peanuts because he's only going to one team. Demko will be injured next trade deadline and be untradeable. Yeah. You know it'll all happen. We're not allowed nice things.

 

[Hughes Clues]

Tocchet will jump ship for the Flyers. We'll end up bringing in a new coach who wants more skill, end up dealing all of the Tocchet type players, there'll be no chemistry next year and we'll be missing the playoffs again. Meanwhile, the Pens will get the #1 overall pick from the Rangers via the Canucks. Hughes won't re-sign and we'll be forced to deal him for peanuts because he's only going to one team. Demko will be injured next trade deadline and be untradeable. Yeah. You know it'll all happen. We're not allowed nice things.

Posts like this are the reason it sucks to be a Canucks fan right now.

 

[Jerry the great]

Evoking Gillis here isn't a panacea. He also was a stubborn asshole and refused to re-sign Ehrhoff to a perfectly reasonable contract because Gillis and Gilman decided that no defenceman could be paid higher than Bieksa. Same thing the current regime is doing.

In fairness, he cost the Sabres $40MM, they only got three years out of him and he'll get his final cheque from them in 2028. not sure that's very reasonable.

 

[Vector]

In fairness, he cost the Sabres $40MM, they only got three years out of him and he'll get his final cheque from them in 2028. not sure that's very reasonable.

Again, that wasn’t the contract being discussed with the Canucks. The contract he got came from the Sabres and not the other way around.

 

[Goatlender]

Evoking Gillis here isn't a panacea. He also was a stubborn asshole and refused to re-sign Ehrhoff to a perfectly reasonable contract because Gillis and Gilman decided that no defenceman could be paid higher than Bieksa. Same thing the current regime is doing.

To play devil’s advocate, Gillis built a team culture of players buying in and taking discounts to assemble the most competitive team possible. The Sedins, Kesler, Burrows, Hamhuis, and to a lesser extent Salo, Edler, Luongo, etc.

Perhaps he took a principled approach that generally worked well with a few exceptions, like Ehrhoff.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Evoking Gillis here isn't a panacea. He also was a stubborn asshole and refused to re-sign Ehrhoff to a perfectly reasonable contract because Gillis and Gilman decided that no defenceman could be paid higher than Bieksa. Same thing the current regime is doing.

Good GMs make bad decisions and bad GMs make the odd good one.

 

[wetcoast]

Tocchet will jump ship for the Flyers. We'll end up bringing in a new coach who wants more skill, end up dealing all of the Tocchet type players, there'll be no chemistry next year and we'll be missing the playoffs again. Meanwhile, the Pens will get the #1 overall pick from the Rangers via the Canucks. Hughes won't re-sign and we'll be forced to deal him for peanuts because he's only going to one team. Demko will be injured next trade deadline and be untradeable. Yeah. You know it'll all happen. We're not allowed nice things.

Look the NYR aren't a serious SC contender but they are closer to that than being a lottery winner.

 

[Nuckles]

To play devil’s advocate, Gillis built a team culture of players buying in and taking discounts to assemble the most competitive team possible. The Sedins, Kesler, Burrows, Hamhuis, and to a lesser extent Salo, Edler, Luongo, etc.

Perhaps he took a principled approach that generally worked well with a few exceptions, like Ehrhoff.

Also this is a very different scenario, it involved an established NHL vet who had already made over ten million dollars in his career at that point.

Expecting a 20 year old top prospect (for the team) to take a discount on his first NHL contract is kind of ridiculous, especially when it sounds like he isn't asking for the max available bonuses.

 

[Vector]

Also this is a very different scenario, it involved an established NHL vet who had already made over ten million dollars in his career at that point.

Expecting a 20 year old top prospect (for the team) to take a discount on his first NHL contract is kind of ridiculous, especially when it sounds like he isn't asking for the max available bonuses.

That’s not the argument being made. Like at all.

I just said that you can’t evoke Mike Gillis as a perfect GM when he also was stubborn in an unreasonable way.

 

[Jerry the great]

Again, that wasn’t the contract being discussed with the Canucks. The contract he got came from the Sabres and not the other way around.

It sounded like you were suggesting the deal Erhoff signed was reasonable, which it wasn’t. The Canucks offer to him (same as the one they have KB3) was, but he wouldn’t sign it.

 

[Vector]

Evoking Gillis here isn't a panacea. He also was a stubborn asshole and refused to re-sign Ehrhoff to a perfectly reasonable contract because Gillis and Gilman decided that no defenceman could be paid higher than Bieksa. Same thing the current regime is doing.

That was their call to offer that contract. The deal the Canucks and Ehrhoff were discussing was just a normal length one.

Again, that wasn’t the contract being discussed with the Canucks. The contract he got came from the Sabres and not the other way around.

It sounded like you were suggesting the deal Erhoff signed was reasonable, which it wasn’t. The Canucks offer to him (same as the one they have KB3) was, but he wouldn’t sign it.

Canucks and Ehrhoff discussed a normal length contract and Ehrhoff wanted a higher cap hit (or total value) than Bieksa. Gillis and Gilman had set an internal cap on defenceman that no one can be paid more than Bieksa. There was a lot of discussion, at the time, how this was just stubbornness and trying to strong arm players. It made sense for the Red Wings but not the Canucks, especially given that Bieksa was not the best defenceman on the team. Buffalo offered the retirement contract and it was never discussed between Ehrhoff and the Canucks.

The actual point I made was that just saying "Man, Gillis wouldn't have done this" when he did set internal cap hits that were seen as silly to both players and fans.

 

[Hodgy]

This is all off topic, but Gillis had been the agent for the Sedins before becoming GM, so I feel like he had a pretty good handle on how to deal them, and the fear mongering on them not being signed was probably never justified.

 

[Intangibos]

Gillis was worried about the implications of paying up for Ehrhoff with Edler's contract coming up a year or two later. Ehrhoff took Buffalo to the cleaners in a terrible contract. I don't think this was stubbornness or foolish on their part and was the type of forward-thinking I want from a manager