Prospect Info: Tom Willander: 11th Overall 2023 Draft (Rogle BK J20) - Part 02

[Brock Boeser Laser Show]

I think if they move the 1st it will have to be a hockey trade where they are getting a player to help for multiple seasons. It will have to be a UFA willing to sign an extension at reasonable price as part of the trade (aka Hanifin last year) or a player already with cost certainty for multiple seasons.

I'd be targetting a 3C that has 2C upside to slide into top 6 when needed. Something similar to the Sam Bennett trade by Florida when he was stuck in his own tracks in Calgary.

If you add a denseman with this years first it's ideally someone who can bump Soucy down to 3rd pair role and be a solid mentor for Willander the next few years.

 

[strattonius]

I think the Canucks are a good hockey team.....probably good enough to finish in the top three in the Pacific and make the playoffs for a second straight year.

But are they a legitimate Cup contender? And would a couple of key additions at the TDL like last season turn them into a legit contender? I just don't think so.

So shedding valuable picks and prospect just to make it into the second round--doesn't resonate with me.

Yeah let's re-tool we just don't have it I guess...

Hmm what a bummer.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

Last year the Canucks traded their 2024 first rounder; and a conditional fourth rounder; along with prospect d-men Brzustewicz and Jurmo as well as Kuzmenko for Lindholm. And Zadorov cost them a third and fifth rounder.

That's a total of four picks flushed away, actually five if you consider that Brzustewicz was their third rounder in 2023. All that for two guys who basically played in Vancouver for two months.

The question I have, is how many more deals like that can the Canucks afford to make? I get that they were loading up for a run.......but if it were to happen two years in a row, the cost is just too high imo.

A couple things to consider:
1) Kuzmenko was likely considered a salary dump, its over $5m on a guy that is in Tocchet's doghouse, some of the value (likely the 4th) was attached to get rid of that contract (one that has term left).
2) the Pacific was relatively up for grab last season and the team was leading the division at the time of the Lindholm trade. You don't get many shots at competing for the cup, so when it looks like the stars are aligned, you have to take a chance, lest you regret it later on.
3) Lindholm was likely acquired as a backup plan in case Petey decided not to extend here. Since top 6 centers are such a premium, if you go out and acquire one, it will cost you. But I don't think they look at Lindholm as a pure rental, and even if he was a rental, they used him as leverage to get "their guy" locked up long term.

I don't think management is particularly interested in a rental this season at this time. The team isn't firing on all cylinder like last season, and there are some concerns with our star players (ie: Demko's health and Petey's confidence/health). The stars aren't really aligned and Vegas look way too strong so far, so maybe this isn't a good year to go for it. Allvin is probably looking for another Hronek-type trade, where a 1st rounder and some prospects are on the table, but he is probably looking to acquire somebody who is younger and has term left. Of course everything changes if comes TDL time and Demko is healthy and Petey is back to his 100pt 1C self, then the team might be more open to rentals, and rightfully so.

All that to say, I don't think trading picks is something to worry about. Allvin has proven that he will get good value out of them, and a low 1st round pick or mid round picks aren't really all that valuable to a contending team anyways.

 

[Regal]

I think the Canucks are a good hockey team.....probably good enough to finish in the top three in the Pacific and make the playoffs for a second straight year.

But are they a legitimate Cup contender? And would a couple of key additions at the TDL like last season turn them into a legit contender? I just don't think so.

So shedding valuable picks and prospect just to make it into the second round--doesn't resonate with me.

I think it depends heavily on where Pettersson and Demko are at in a couple months. I think if Pettersson is playing like a top 5 center again (along with the PP improvement from that), and Demko is in Vezina form, then it’s probably worth spending on trying to get the second pairing fixed, as I think the rest of the team would be good enough to make a run. But I can’t imagine the team winning without both of them at their best, so I wouldn’t want to spend assets just to match last years success.

 

[mriswith]

Last year the Canucks traded their 2024 first rounder; and a conditional fourth rounder; along with prospect d-men Brzustewicz and Jurmo as well as Kuzmenko for Lindholm. And Zadorov cost them a third and fifth rounder.

That's a total of four picks flushed away, actually five if you consider that Brzustewicz was their third rounder in 2023. All that for two guys who basically played in Vancouver for two months.

The question I have, is how many more deals like that can the Canucks afford to make? I get that they were loading up for a run.......but if it were to happen two years in a row, the cost is just too high imo.

If your pro scouting is good you can make those deals every year. If your pro scouting is bad then it's crippling but it's clear where we are in our cycle.

If we had traded the same Lindholm assets for Guentzel and then extended him, I don't think anyone would be that upset.

Willander is the last piece we should be trading right now, it would have to be an insane deal, but everything else should be up for grabs for the right deal.

 

[nergish]

I think the Canucks are a good hockey team.....probably good enough to finish in the top three in the Pacific and make the playoffs for a second straight year.

But are they a legitimate Cup contender? And would a couple of key additions at the TDL like last season turn them into a legit contender? I just don't think so.

So shedding valuable picks and prospect just to make it into the second round--doesn't resonate with me.

They will almost certainly trade the 1st round pick again this year.

But Allvin is simply not trading his big Swedish prospects.

 

[Wisp]

Pearly clutching late 1sts during a contention window is what caused Gillis to fall short.

 

[arttk]

Pearly clutching late 1sts during a contention window is what caused Gillis to fall short.

Trading almost all our picks away is not pearl clutching

 

[God]

i'm happy with trading away every single pick for the next 3 seasons if it improves our chances of winning in the playoffs for the next 3 seasons. do whatever you need to do to maximize the potential of our contending window.

 

[Wisp]

Trading almost all our picks away is not pearl clutching

He didn't trade them all away but he should have. It was entirely inconsequential to the Canucks future to have Gaunce, Jensen, Mallet, etc in the system. Half measures.

 

[arttk]

He didn't trade them all away but he should have. It was entirely inconsequential to the Canucks future to have Gaunce, Jensen, Mallet, etc in the system. Half measures fall short.

I mean this management group

 

[F A N]

Boeser maybe to yes. Hughes yes, but Petey is good not special, until he is consistent. You're supposed to get all star quality players in the top 10. That's generally where they show up. Getting zeros Three of five isn't good, particularly from a draft guru.

Drafting Petey where we drafted him is not special? Has he not been an all star? The Petey hate is getting a bit ridiculous here.

 

[F A N]

If your pro scouting is good you can make those deals every year. If your pro scouting is bad then it's crippling but it's clear where we are in our cycle.

If we had traded the same Lindholm assets for Guentzel and then extended him, I don't think anyone would be that upset.

Willander is the last piece we should be trading right now, it would have to be an insane deal, but everything else should be up for grabs for the right deal.

Agree with your post except the part about making these deals every year. The odds are against a team who continuously trades away their 1st round pick no matter how good the pro scouting is.

The Lindholm vs Guentzel comparison highlights a key difference though. Not only did we not get a player that filled a need (top 6 winger to play with Petey) but we failed to re-sign the player.

 

[ManVanFan]

That's a minus 1 for Willander, now minus 2. Willander's strength on his stick could use some work when he has the puck.

Northeastern game. Providence scored on PP, Dorrington covering the left side of the net, didn't block the pass across the crease, easy tap in for Providence.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

Dom Luzcjldkafjyn's model has the Canucks with a 10% shot at the Cup - you move out the picks. I want the 1st, 2nd, and any non-Lekkerimaki/Willander prospects on the table to add a defenseman. An impact defenseman not any of these "maybe they can add Jeremy Lauzon" BS rumors.

I honestly think Sanheim might be available if Philadelphia's season continues to crater.

 

[HairyKneel]

That's a minus 1 for Willander, now minus 2. Willander's strength on his stick could use some work when he has the puck.

Northeastern game. Providence scored on PP, Dorrington covering the left side of the net, didn't block the pass across the crease, easy tap in for Providence.

Wow an actual Willander post post in the Willander thread. Pretty refreshing. How many experts do we need running around with their diapers on fire screaming 'they are trading the pick'.... in every bloody thread.

I'm curious to know how the kid is doing. I don't have the time nor the inclination to watch his games, but I am curious.

 

[arttk]

Wow an actual Willander post post in the Willander thread. Pretty refreshing. How many experts do we need running around with their diapers on fire screaming 'they are trading the pick'.... in every bloody thread. It's bad as people complaining about Elmer the Tard in every thread.

I'm curious to know how the kid is doing. I don't have the time nor the inclination to watch his games, but I am curious.

Caught the 3rd period, he had some nice rushes. Would like to see him push the play a bit more at the end of those rushes instead of just curling back and passing it back to the point.

 

[ManVanFan]

Wow an actual Willander post post in the Willander thread. Pretty refreshing. How many experts do we need running around with their diapers on fire screaming 'they are trading the pick'.... in every bloody thread. It's bad as people complaining about Elmer the Tard in every thread.

I'm curious to know how the kid is doing. I don't have the time nor the inclination to watch his games, but I am curious.

I started watching College games more when we drafted Hughes. College game has come quite a ways in the past decade in terms of better quality.

He's been good. His team is weak. His defensive help is weak. Has some things that he will need to shore up, like strength with the puck and some decision making. Really like his ability to break up play along the boards.

 

[ManVanFan]

Caught the 3rd period, he had some nice rushes. Would like to see him push the play a bit more at the end of those rushes instead of just curling back and passing it back to the point.

Doesn't really scream high offence once he gets to the NHL.

 

[arttk]

Doesn't really scream high offence once he gets to the NHL.

I’ve only watch this period this whole season lol.

He feels like a systems player so that typically doesn’t show well in a chaotic environment.

 

[settinguptheplay]

Doesn't really scream high offence once he gets to the NHL.

I don't think anyone expects high offence. If he turns out to be Tanev lite while contributing 30 points you run laughing all the way to the bank.

 

[604]

The question I have, is how many more deals like that can the Canucks afford to make? I get that they were loading up for a run.......but if it were to happen two years in a row, the cost is just too high imo.

You can do it every year that your pick is in a playoff position. A lot of contenders do.

The one I don’t understand was trading Gunther (10th OA) for OEL.

 

[im gangster]

You can do it every year that your pick is in a playoff position. A lot of contenders do.

The one I don’t understand was trading Gunther (10th OA) for OEL.

because the moron believed he was pulling one over on the coyotes and oel was a norris worthy player

that is the whole thing

 

[VanJack]

It strikes me that this edition of Boston University isn't as strong as the team a year ago. How long are they projected to last in the NCAA Frozen Four playoffs.......and if they bow out early, what's the earliest date Wilander could be signed and in a Canucks uniform in March?

 

[Diversification]

It strikes me that this edition of Boston University isn't as strong as the team a year ago. How long are they projected to last in the NCAA Frozen Four playoffs.......and if they bow out early, what's the earliest date Wilander could be signed and in a Canucks uniform in March?

You would think that Pandolfo, of the 90's-early aughts Devils dynasty, would implement a sturdy system but it's just not the case. So many players are just sort of doing their own thing and there's no cohesion. Willander's partner, Boumedienne is actually one of the better systems-style players they have but he's a rookie and there are growing pains. All of this would be papered over were it not for the fact that they are a middling offensive team for all their talent and with all the free-wheeling. Part of that is Cole Hutson is not Lane Hutson and Cole Eiserman is not Macklin Celebrini.

Their loss last night can be pinned on their lack of structure. UMass Lowell just played more conservatively and pounced on the plentiful giveaways at the blue line and in the neutral zone.