Dan Boyle? Lmfao what a bad comparison. Not even remotely the same type of defenseman.
Prospect Info: Tom Willander: 11th Overall 2023 Draft (Rogle BK J20) - Part 02
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Wasn't this forum founded upon discussing prospects?
Getting upset about people talking about prospects on this forum is a bit odd.
Wry n Ginger
Water which is too pure has no fish
Ahh...I see
Not prospects in general. And the "forum" has several sub categories to discuss specific prospects. Sorry that bit got away from you chum.
This one had a title indicating its for Willander conversation.
So you're surprised that posters have gone off-topic?
To be fair, this thread has been relatively on topic.I think a better comparison for Wilander might be Miro Heiskanan, but obviously a bit slighter and minus the dynamic offense.
But Wilander was drafted because of his elite skating ability. It's big year coming up for him at BU. Hopefully he can add some offense, although 4 goals and 21 assists in 38 games isn't too bad for an 18-year old.
For comparison sakes, Quinn Hughes had had five goals and 24 assists in his 18-year old season at Michigan. And was only slightly better as a 19-year old with five goals and 28 assists.
But Wilander was drafted because of his elite skating ability. It's big year coming up for him at BU. Hopefully he can add some offense, although 4 goals and 21 assists in 38 games isn't too bad for an 18-year old.
For comparison sakes, Quinn Hughes had had five goals and 24 assists in his 18-year old season at Michigan. And was only slightly better as a 19-year old with five goals and 28 assists.
Hughes' pedestrian results at lower levels compared to what he's done in the NHL - and, like, literally since his first game in the NHL - are one of the most baffling things I've ever seen.
14-0-5-5 across two WJCs. Dylan Samberg outscored him for the US over those two tournaments.
hughes results at michigan are elite when put in context. put up more than a point a game on a team whose next leading scorer was will lockwood and whose only notable other players were a freshman blankenburg and josh norris. his results as a true freshman and on the ntpd team were very good too considering how badly those teams performed offensively
The context is that this is a generational offensive defender who looks like he's going to be one of the top 5 skill defenders of all time.
A player this good, you'd expect to see insane Crosby/McDavid numbers at lower levels. Dominating WJCs.
His first year at Michigan, he slightly out-produced a nobody 6'3 defensive defender on his own team named Joseph Ceccini.
His second year at Michigan his numbers were very good and maybe 'elite' for NCAA but still not really eye-catching stuff. Again, marginally better than a guy named Bobby Nardella playing for Notre Dame in Hughes' conference with a similar low-scoring team.
And really did nothing at the WJCs.
This isn't the profile of a player who would be winning Norris Trophies and putting up 90-point seasons in the NHL 5 years later.
Blue and Green
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Wilander as a freshman is eight months older than freshman Hughes was. And, Hughes led Michigan in points as a sophomore even though he played a few less games than his next four highest scoring teammates. BU scored just over four goals per game this season. Michigan averaged about 3.4 in Hughes' freshman season and barely over three in his sophomore season.
Blue and Green
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Makar same deal but he at least blew up at the WJCs and led that tournament in scoring.
biturbo19
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He gets kind of pigeonholed as that, but especially later in his career, he was far more of an all-around minute muncher who just happened to be very good offensively as well. But he was a darn smart defensive player.
Personally, i'm not sure it'd be the most direct comp or projection all around...but i do find Willander reminds me a ton of Boyle, stylistically at least. Willander doesn't have nearly the same aggressive, dynamic offensive streak (at this point at least and especially in the role he was asked to play this year - and probably never will). Probably won't ever run a powerplay the same way so the production will never be there. Willander is also a bit bigger. But the way they skate and use that to defend is very similar to me. And frankly...they just visually/stylistically look very similar to me on the ice.
So i can get behind that in a sense. I don't really get the Slavin thing. I feel like he's just become a generic "catch-all" for "really good defence-first defenceman". In the same sense that every "non-physical no offense defenceman" is Chris Tanev to Canucks fans. But Slavin skates and defends very differently to Willander imo, and Slavin's bigger, lanky frame stands out more in the way he defends, compared to Willander.
The prevailing comp around the draft here seemed to be a "Hamhuis type" and tbh, that's probably not the worst comp overall...though i don't find that they look all that similar on the ice, so it's more of the other elements of projection.
Comparisons are always a bit of a weird mashup of "role" and "style" though, with "plus this" or "minus that". And on the lazier end, just matching up a similar size player with comparable projected scoring results.
No, the logic is fine. All S are P doesn’t mean all P are S.
Converse (logic) - Wikipedia
You don’t expect players to become vastly more productive as they move up levels.
No, the logic is fine. All S are P doesn’t mean all P are S.
Converse (logic) - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
You don’t expect players to become vastly more productive as they move up levels.
I think that speaks to Quinn's work ethic. There's absolutely nothing in his past statistical profile that suggested he'd score 17 goals this season. He's spent a lot of time working on his shot and figure out how to get into better shooting areas.
I think people really underestimate the power of practicing and working hard.
Let’s hope Willander has some mamba in him and will work on his game like a madman like right f***ing now.
Brock Boeser Laser Show
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Buresflyingelbow
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People probably won’t want to hear this but Willander plays a game more like OEL than Dan Boyle. The offensive upside is there if he puts it together and defensively he’s above average.
A better assessment of Wilander's season comes from the World Jr. Hockey Championships, rather than the NCAA.
Playing against kids his own age, he was a solid top-four d-man on the Swedish team which won the silver medal. He figured to have his ups and downs playing against guys much older and more physical on a smaller rink in N.A.
Predicting it now, he'll be a lot better as a sophomore, and will flash far more of his first round pedigree.
Playing against kids his own age, he was a solid top-four d-man on the Swedish team which won the silver medal. He figured to have his ups and downs playing against guys much older and more physical on a smaller rink in N.A.
Predicting it now, he'll be a lot better as a sophomore, and will flash far more of his first round pedigree.
MarkusNaslund19
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Same person thinks we need to deal Pettersson because his contract is an albatross and he 'sux'.
Starting to think we can safely ignore his blathering.
Bumping this thread. I wonder what the plan is for Willander. I think prior to this summer the majority of us thought (hoped?) that it would be one more year in college and then straight to NHL? The safe timeline would be full time NHLer by his draft +4 year? Hronek is signed long term, Myers is signed for 3 more, and Descharnais is signed for 2. Barring trades or swapping sides, does that mean Willander plays a top 4 role right away or rely on Myers playing top 4 minutes in the last year of his contract?
Perhaps Willander has expressed the willingness to start his draft +3 year in the AHL and go from there? Willander did go the college route because he thought it was best for his development so his whole approach might be different from the typical NA college prospects who would rather stay in college than play in the AHL. Simon Edvinsson, for example, is likely going to be a full time NHL this season in his draft +4 season.
Perhaps Willander has expressed the willingness to start his draft +3 year in the AHL and go from there? Willander did go the college route because he thought it was best for his development so his whole approach might be different from the typical NA college prospects who would rather stay in college than play in the AHL. Simon Edvinsson, for example, is likely going to be a full time NHL this season in his draft +4 season.
I’ve been thinking about this too and, yeah, pretty much what you said. Although a lot can change between now and the end of the season.
I’d imagine the tentative plan would be to sign him and get him to the AHL instead of NHL. There’s also a decent chance his season finishes after he would be able to play any games in the NHL anyway.
It looks like they’ll want to slow cook him and have him compete for a spot with Desharnais and function as the primary call-up in his draft+3.
sting101
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As long as we're not signing anchor contracts it doesn't really matter too much on how he will fit in as we can just trade someone.
I was hoping Hronek would be shorter on term to avoid the possibility that Willander and Hronek could both be expensive but realistic timelines would suggest that's at minimum 4yrs away anyway and then he could be bridged if needed.
Not an issue having 2 top30 RD if he works out and Hronek continues to grow his game
On the Hughes scoring thing @MS.
U20s He played behind Adam Fox in 2018 as a 18yr old
In 2019 in Vancouver/Victoria he was playing injured as he picked a fight with a much bigger Czech player in a prelim game in Langley after his brother got ran and injured. I'm pretty sure he played with a bummed shoulder
As far as Michigan those were low scoring teams but certainly his freshman year didn't suggest elite offensive dynamo.
Acclimation and possibly low IQ players could have affected things as well as wanting to show he could be a reliable defensive player (unlike Lane Hutson) and playing more conservative.....i'm not really that sure but it wasn't that bad with more context
18 Brian Leetch 37 9 38 47 of 222 goals (212 he missed 2 games)....factored in 22% of scoring
18 Quinn Hughes 37 5 24 29 of 136 goals (126 he missed 4 games).............23% of scoring
I was hoping Hronek would be shorter on term to avoid the possibility that Willander and Hronek could both be expensive but realistic timelines would suggest that's at minimum 4yrs away anyway and then he could be bridged if needed.
Not an issue having 2 top30 RD if he works out and Hronek continues to grow his game
On the Hughes scoring thing @MS.
U20s He played behind Adam Fox in 2018 as a 18yr old
In 2019 in Vancouver/Victoria he was playing injured as he picked a fight with a much bigger Czech player in a prelim game in Langley after his brother got ran and injured. I'm pretty sure he played with a bummed shoulder
As far as Michigan those were low scoring teams but certainly his freshman year didn't suggest elite offensive dynamo.
Acclimation and possibly low IQ players could have affected things as well as wanting to show he could be a reliable defensive player (unlike Lane Hutson) and playing more conservative.....i'm not really that sure but it wasn't that bad with more context
18 Brian Leetch 37 9 38 47 of 222 goals (212 he missed 2 games)....factored in 22% of scoring
18 Quinn Hughes 37 5 24 29 of 136 goals (126 he missed 4 games).............23% of scoring
He will burn an elc year if they sign him when BU's season ends. What they opt to do with him in 25/26 is up to them. Nothing wrong to playing in Abby for 25/26 and if he does well, he would basically be their TDL acquisition for the final 20 games if he does excel in the A. But, if he's really good in the 25/26 camp, then maybe they end up keeping him.
You can find iffy-ish reasons at any step along the way but the bottom line is that this is an absolute generational offensive talent from the blueline and he simply never put together elite offensive numbers before getting to the NHL. It's weird.
A guy as good as he is in the NHL you'd expect to get minutes over Matt Gildon at the U18s or drive enough offense at Michigan that he single-handedly turns them into an elite offensive team.
Like, aged 17-20 Adam Clendening generally produced better offensive results than Quinn Hughes.
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