Confirmed with Link: Toffoli to CGY for Emil Heineman, Tyler Pitlick + Picks (Part 2)

[Lshap]

Continued

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[NotProkofievian]

Moar first round picks plz.

 

[Rockomax]

You make some good points, however, with Toffoli’s good contract I think he is worth more this year than a year from now. While it can always be argued that the Habs could have bargained for a better return, they did trade him only 1/2 season after his terrific 20-21 season. A year from now and Toffoli becomes a year and a half removed from that season, and we wouldn’t want him evaluated based on how he performs on the current tire fire of a team.

Also, in theory at least, the first round pick this year should be on the ice for the Habs a year earlier than a pick next year.

Finally, I think the draft being in Montreal is significant. With the media and hopefully fans in the building, having at least 3 first round picks this year (assuming Chiarot gets a 1st in return) will be a big public splash.

I understand the PR move. However, as you said, Chiarot will be a UFA and should garner a 1st rounder too. We're not used to having more than 1 1st rounder in Montreal. 2 would have been enough. Could have traded Chiarot this year and Toffoli next year. I'd be really surprised if anyone well connected told me that what they received this year would not have been matched next year; heck this is what I would have liked for Toffoli if he had been a pending UFA.. And the Habs would have had a mentor for scoring winger Cole Caufield.

We also have drafted a LOT of prospects these last couple of seasons, so spreading the picks over 2 years might have been a good idea to not lose prospects uselessly because of contract limits too.

 

[Licou]

I understand the PR move. However, as you said, Chiarot will be a UFA and should garner a 1st rounder too. We're not used to having more than 1 1st rounder in Montreal. 2 would have been enough. Could have traded Chiarot this year and Toffoli next year. I'd be really surprised if anyone well connected told me that what they received this year would not have been matched next year; heck this is what I would have liked for Toffoli if he had been a pending UFA.. And the Habs would have had a mentor for scoring winger Cole Caufield.

We also have drafted a LOT of prospects these last couple of seasons, so spreading the picks over 2 years might have been a good idea to not lose prospects uselessly because of contract limits too.

We can trade picks from this year for picks next year at the draft too.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Decent trade. Comes down to the development on Heineman and if we can hit on the 1st. Heineman to me is a middle 6F if he reaches his NHL ceiling level. Maybe a Hyman type.

Toffoli is going to play 3rd line for the Flames who will be rolling lines 5/5. Gets 2nd PP unit time?

Habs could look like idiots or we could look very good in 2.5 years when Toffoli needs a new contract and the Habs futures we got are just starting to show promise (or not). We will see but man, our draft power is going to be unreal from 17-24 draft years.

 

[Rockomax]

We can trade picks from this year for picks next year at the draft too.

We can, yes. But why not keep the useful player for an additional year if the goal is to get 2023 picks?

 

[417]

Decent trade. Comes down to the development on Heineman and if we can hit on the 1st. Heineman to me is a middle 6F if he reaches his NHL ceiling level. Maybe a Hyman type.

Toffoli is going to play 3rd line for the Flames who will be rolling lines 5/5. Gets 2nd PP unit time?

Habs could look like idiots or we could look very good in 2.5 years when Toffoli needs a new contract and the Habs futures we got are just starting to show promise (or not). We will see but man, our draft power is going to be unreal from 17-24 draft years.

Yeah how Heineman develops is key to this deal but the 1st round pick is an asset, they might not even use to select a player this year.

For me, it's pretty standard return for the type of player they traded. It would have been nice to get a prospect with better "name brand value", but Gorton/Hughes must really like the prospect and I have no problems going after a player you like.

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

If nothing else, this does indicate that all the talk about wanting a fast team wasn't just noise. Toffoli has a lot of qualities but being fast sure isnt one of them.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Patrik Bexell spoke with Heineman's coach, and this is one quote from that interview:

“He had a good shot last year, but damn it’s even better this year,” Hellkvist said. “I have worked a bit with Victor Olofsson and there are some similarities with their shots, even if I think that Viktor has more of a technical shot whereas Emil uses power; Emil can shot through a defender. Victor doesn’t do that.”

Here is the full interview:



And Bexell adds his thoughts after speaking with the coach and also watching some film:

 

[Licou]

We can, yes. But why not keep the useful player for an additional year if the goal is to get 2023 picks?

I am still thorn about this too.

Tanking is a fine balancing act. Finishing in the middle of the pack isn't ideal but getting curb stomped every night isn't good for the confidence and attitude of the young players.

Toffoli was indeed a player I thought actually cared, so I am not sure this wad the right move right now too.

One thing is for sure though, we did get fair value back I think. But was it the right move... we'll see.

One thing is obvious though, management is clearly clearly not planning on being competitive next year too.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Yeah how Heineman develops is key to this deal but the 1st round pick is an asset, they might not even use to select a player this year.

For me, it's pretty standard return for the type of player they traded. It would have been nice to get a prospect with better "name brand value", but Gorton/Hughes must really like the prospect and I have no problems going after a player you like.

For all we know, the Flames offered Zary and we said no, we want Heineman. Not saying this is 100% true but it could have been. From what I have seen with Heineman, his has a good game with no glaring flaws. On a very positive development curve.

 

[Rockomax]

I am still thorn about this too.

Tanking is a fine balancing act. Finishing in the middle of the pack isn't ideal but getting curb stomped every night isn't good for the confidence and attitude of the young players.

Toffoli was indeed a player I thought actually cared, so I am not sure this wad the right move right now too.

One thing is for sure though, we did get fair value back I think. But was it the right move... we'll see.

One thing is obvious though, management is clearly clearly not planning on being competitive next year too.

Agreed. However, as we see this season, Toffoli would not have made this team a middle of the pack team.

Hughes said he wants to build a team around speed. Toffoli probably didn't fit in that plan. But does Suzuki? I don't know, talent is talent. Fast or not, Toffoli was a good player for the Habs and seemed genuinely happy to be here. I'd cheer for him if I was at the Bell Center when the Habs played CGY

 

[TomKosto]

I don't know if it's a good sign that Heineman has been dealt already two times in his young carreer or a bad one. Don't really know the guy.

 

[TomKosto]

For all we know, the Flames offered Zary and we said no, we want Heineman. Not saying this is 100% true but it could have been. From what I have seen with Heineman, his has a good game with no glaring flaws. On a very positive development curve.

Not so sure about that...Center worth more than winger and I think Calgary wants to keep their C prospects with Monahan being this bad.

 

[Vachon23]

For all we know, the Flames offered Zary and we said no, we want Heineman. Not saying this is 100% true but it could have been. From what I have seen with Heineman, his has a good game with no glaring flaws. On a very positive development curve.

Where did you saw that ?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Not so sure about that...Center worth more than winger and I think Calgary wants to keep their C prospects with Monahan being this bad.

Centers are worth more than wingers if they are good centers yeah. Who would you take... KK or Caufield for example? Right now today?

 

[417]

For all we know, the Flames offered Zary and we said no, we want Heineman. Not saying this is 100% true but it could have been. From what I have seen with Heineman, his has a good game with no glaring flaws. On a very positive development curve.

Agreed...I think when news of the trade broke but we hadn't heard the names, everyone rushed to the Flames prospects sites and looked at the names like Pelletier, Coronnato, Zary or Poirier and convinced themselves the Habs were getting one of these players..

I guess Habs management had other ideas lol

 

[Habs Halifax]

Where did you saw that ?

I didn't see it. "For all we know" indicates it could have been a possibility.

What makes Zary a better prospect over Heineman?
* 24th pick vs 43rd pick.
* Center vs Winger
* Both had meh WJC in 2020.

I think Heineman has very good development since being drafted. Don't make this into something big but I don't think there is a massive gap in value between the center and winger in this case. Could change moving forward but the progression Heineman is on is exactly the development you want to see. He skates very well, has a great shot, and plays physical. He leap frogged from J20 super elite to SHL and bypassed the Allsvenskan league. He's clearly highly valued in Sweden

 

[pepperMonkey]

I understand the PR move. However, as you said, Chiarot will be a UFA and should garner a 1st rounder too. We're not used to having more than 1 1st rounder in Montreal. 2 would have been enough. Could have traded Chiarot this year and Toffoli next year. I'd be really surprised if anyone well connected told me that what they received this year would not have been matched next year; heck this is what I would have liked for Toffoli if he had been a pending UFA.. And the Habs would have had a mentor for scoring winger Cole Caufield.

We also have drafted a LOT of prospects these last couple of seasons, so spreading the picks over 2 years might have been a good idea to not lose prospects uselessly because of contract limits too.

Considering if the 2022 pick had to be protected (top 10) we would receive an unprotected 2023 pick plus an additional 4th, seems to me that we could have nabbed the 2023 pick from the outset.
Which is to say, there probably is no need to wait a year to get 2023 picks. Just trade said player this year and get the 2023 pick. Personally, as an amateur armchair GM, I would have gone all 2023 picks but I don't care about the fact that the draft is held in Montreal

 

[Adam Michaels]

I don't know if it's a good sign that Heineman has been dealt already two times in his young carreer or a bad one. Don't really know the guy.

I'm thinking it's more along the lines of the team acquiring him wanted him rather than the other team thinking he's expendable.

 

[Sam I Am]

"You're placing too much faith in this scouting staff. Don't forget they stumbled into Suzuki. One year out of the draft they wanted Glass, not Suzuki"

Let's hope that history tepeats itself with Jakob Pelletier and Heineman.

 

[Vachon23]

I didn't see it. "For all we know" indicates it could have been a possibility.

What makes Zary a better prospect over Heineman?
* 24th pick vs 43rd pick.
* Center vs Winger
* Both had meh WJC in 2020.

I think Heineman has very good development since being drafted. Don't make this into something big but I don't think there is a massive gap in value between the center and winger in this case. Could change moving forward but the progression Heineman is on is exactly the development you want to see. He skates very well, has a great shot, and plays physical.

Not sure Zary was on the table and they decided to go with Heineman, if that the case I'm disappointed with that decision. Zary have celling to be a top 6 player even if it's not sure, I don't see Emil having that type of potential

 

[Habs Halifax]

Agreed...I think when news of the trade broke but we hadn't heard the names, everyone rushed to the Flames prospects sites and looked at the names like Pelletier, Coronnato, Zary or Poirier and convinced themselves the Habs were getting one of these players..

I guess Habs management had other ideas lol

Yup. Remember Suzuki from the Patch trade? Everyone thinks he was a grade A when we acquired him but he was more like a B+ the Habs valued a lot. Not saying this is going to be the same but Gorton/Hughes seem to have a certain style of game they want to play and they took the guy they value.

We need more stars at the top end but Heineman in the middle 6 is important too. Warriors who bust their ass off and can chip in with goals is something fans overlook when they stat check.

 

[The Last Red]

The prospect we all wanted, Jakob Pelletier, was drafted 26th overall. If the Flames can find high quality prospects like him late in the first round, we should be able to as well.

 

[Gabriel Sagala]

I understand the PR move. However, as you said, Chiarot will be a UFA and should garner a 1st rounder too. We're not used to having more than 1 1st rounder in Montreal. 2 would have been enough. Could have traded Chiarot this year and Toffoli next year. I'd be really surprised if anyone well connected told me that what they received this year would not have been matched next year; heck this is what I would have liked for Toffoli if he had been a pending UFA.. And the Habs would have had a mentor for scoring winger Cole Caufield.

We also have drafted a LOT of prospects these last couple of seasons, so spreading the picks over 2 years might have been a good idea to not lose prospects uselessly because of contract limits too.

the best mentor for cole caufield is right behind the bench