Toews on Kane: "He could be at the top of the scoring list all the time"

[Trottier]

Do you believe that there was something to what Toews said in the OP? Would Kane be able to put up better numbers if provided a different scenario? That playing on the Blackhawks is somehow a detriment to his personal stats and he has to sacrifice for the team to win?

To an extent, I do.

My opinion, to be sure, is contrary to the one popular on this board.

Namely, it is "easier" (not "easy", but relatively speaking) to collect numbers and be a star on a lousy team than it is to produce on a more talented and disciplined team that is expected to, and does, win. And which expects "more" (as defined by more than simply putting up points) of its best players.

Kane would not be the first guy I think of when it comes to that example - Patrick Elias in his prime is a much better one, for one; as was Steve Yzerman. But the stereotype of Kane as simply this one-way guy (more valid earlier in his career) is wearing thin over time.

And the "he's simply a beneficiary of..." meme is demagoguery at this point, IMO. Regardless of whomever "he" may be.

Just my opinion, of course.

Adding: catching Toews/Kane & Co. vs. Getzlaf/Perry and Friends Friday night at the Pond. Can't wait!

 

[Nothingman*]

Nobody is saying they should put Kane in those positions.


I don't think anyone is surprised at Toews piling on compliments to a teammate and good friend.

Do you believe that there was something to what Toews said in the OP? Would Kane be able to put up better numbers if provided a different scenario? That playing on the Blackhawks is somehow a detriment to his personal stats and he has to sacrifice for the team to win?

Well, Izzy is insinuating that he doesn't play in those positions enough. So yeah, he is saying that he doesn't play in the D zone enough for his liking. And that he should prolly play on the PP with Smith, Kruger, Rozy, and Erixon.....because all teams put their best players with 4th liners on the PP I guess.

 

[blinds]

I agree with Toews. What he says has merit. When has Kane campaigned for better line mates, more PP time or better offensive zone starts? He also passes the puck quite a bit. If Kane was a "me-me" guy, he'd be hogging a full 2 minutes on the PP like someone in Washington.

Is it even possible for him to get more PP time or offensive zone starts? He's near the top of the league in both already. When has any player ever publicly campaigned for any of that anyway? Kane shouldn't be commended for not whining.

Also, are you talking about Ovechkin's PP time? Because he gets 3:41 PP TOI/G compared to Kane's 3:45. I guess that makes Kane more of a "me-me" guy according to your logic.

I think what Toews was getting at is - IF Kane was 100% motivated by his personal points, he would act differently to make sure he got them. And it makes sense. He has the raw talent to score 100-120 points a year IMO. I think, talent-wise, Kane is as gifted as Crosby or Malkin.

I can say things with nothing to back them up too. Phil Kessel has the raw talent to score 100-120 points, he just doesn't really want to. He starts almost every shift in the offensive zone, but he's not really trying to score. That's what scoring wingers like he and Kane do, right?

It's just so ridiculous.. Kane could routinely be the top scorer in the league, he just never has because he doesn't really want to? He's a talented guy but let's stop pretending he's just letting the Crosby's, Malkin's and Stamkos's of the world win. There are clearly a number of players that are better than him.

 

[AD1066]

There are also elite players who have put personal stats above team.

You'd be saying the same thing about Kane if he played on Buffalo or Edmonton. But instead, he's playing on your team, with a star-studded supporting cast, and therefore making sacrifices for the team.

I seriously doubt guys like Ovechkin, Hall, Kessel are in it for personal accolades. Every single one of them wants to win.

I think what Toews was getting at is - IF Kane was 100% motivated by his personal points, he would act differently to make sure he got them. And it makes sense. He has the raw talent to score 100-120 points a year IMO. I think, talent-wise, Kane is as gifted as Crosby or Malkin.

Ok, so if Crosby was 100% motivated by personal points, could he score 130-140?

 

[The Expert]

I just think it's Toews complimenting a teammate. Not surprising, Toews seems like about as great a teammate you can find.

 

[Ace Card Bedard]

I believe if Kane were on a line with a finisher he'd put up 100+ these days.

He creates chances nearly every shift but his linemates can't convert 'em.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

This is hilarious, has Toews been hanging out with Wayne Gretzky? The guy that proclaims someone new to be the best he's ever seen every year?

Lol. I like Kane, silky smooth hands with the puck, but at the top of the points list? No. Not even the Hawks when his career is done. He's barely half way to Denis Savard. It'd take him 500+ games to even do that while Savard took 881 some change.

I believe if Kane were on a line with a finisher he'd put up 100+ these days.

He creates chances nearly every shift but his linemates can't convert 'em.

Feel the pain that is what we Pens see with Sid & Geno. But hey, it is what it is.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

Ovechkin until very recently and Kessel to name two.

So now you say he's playing a team game which is different than your first post when you called him a one-dimensional player. OK.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Well, Izzy is insinuating that he doesn't play in those positions enough. So yeah, he is saying that he doesn't play in the D zone enough for his liking. And that he should prolly play on the PP with Smith, Kruger, Rozy, and Erixon.....because all teams put their best players with 4th liners on the PP I guess.

Can you point out where anyone is saying that? I have no clue how you could come to this conclusion.

 

[Kojo]

This reminds me of the Malkin thread. Except that Malkin is better and is a center. They both could have more points but they play to win.

 

[FRUSTRATEDPENFAN*]

All this coming from the most over rated player in the league Toews saying can could do more but doesn't because of team needs what a load of you know what.

 

[EmeticDonut]

Lol. I like Kane, silky smooth hands with the puck, but at the top of the points list? No. Not even the Hawks when his career is done. He's barely half way to Denis Savard. It'd take him 500+ games to even do that while Savard took 881 some change.

*looks at the eras when these two players played*

Ok then.

 

[FRUSTRATEDPENFAN*]

What does Savard playing in a different time have to do with anything he played with players and against players that made up the 1987 Canada Cup Team people say players are so much better now that's laughable if you put that 87 team against any team players from now the current players would lose

 

[hisgirlfriday]

Why is Denis Savard even being brought up in this particular thread that was about Toews talking about Kane's ability to do well in the Art Ross chase? I am fairly confident that Patrick Kane is going to finish ahead of Denis Savard in scoring this season and every season for the rest of his career.

 

[FRUSTRATEDPENFAN*]

Kane IS not never will be the player savard was sorry

 

[FRUSTRATEDPENFAN*]

Someone brought up savard earlier

 

[joplin]

Toews is a hall of famer, Kane is not
Kane didn't win any individual award and probably won't. he just benefits from playing with chicago

 

[clydesdale line]

I believe if Kane were on a line with a finisher he'd put up 100+ these days.

He creates chances nearly every shift but his linemates can't convert 'em.

Maybe if Quenneville stops giving him ****** centers at even strength ('washed up' Richards might be the best center he's played with since Toews as a rookie) and bottom 6 wingers, he probably can.

 

[FRUSTRATEDPENFAN*]

Kane did win the Conn Smythe if im remembering right could be wrong though The funny thing is Kane is better than Toews IMO not that it counts for much lol

 

[ChiHawk21]

Toews is a hall of famer, Kane is not
Kane didn't win any individual award and probably won't. he just benefits from playing with chicago

thats lol ^.....toews is just saying he makes sacrifices for the team...like not playing with a legit center basically his whole career. If the blackhawks were going for stats they would play Sharp-Toews-Kane together every shift with Keith and Seabrook.

They split up these players because it gives them a better chance to win. Hes just complimenting his teammate.

 

[x Tame Impala]

Typical main board. What I think Toews was getting at is that he thinks Kane would put up more points on a team where the offense flows through him...if he was "THE Guy". I don't disagree. Watching the Hawks play, which is something a lot of you in this thread should try doing before running your mouths, you would see that Kane gets strapped with not so great linemates more often than not.

Kane certainly isn't a secondary piece to the Hawks and I'm certainly not saying the guy would be winning the Ross year in and year out. I definitely think he'd be a 90+ point player if he was given linemates that weren't aging vets and/or rejuvenation projects or if he was the only guy on his team who could score.

Disagree if you'd like. This narrative that the players on the Hawks are only good because they player with other good players on the Hawks but individually they're actually "overrated" is amusing enough.

 

[WaltWhitman]

This is hilarious, has Toews been hanging out with Wayne Gretzky? The guy that proclaims someone new to be the best he's ever seen every year?

Lol. I like Kane, silky smooth hands with the puck, but at the top of the points list? No. Not even the Hawks when his career is done. He's barely half way to Denis Savard. It'd take him 500+ games to even do that while Savard took 881 some change.



Feel the pain that is what we Pens see with Sid & Geno. But hey, it is what it is.

Here's where Denis Savard came into the convo...

Who said anything about the all time points list?

"Could be at the top of the scoring list all the time". Vs. " could be at the top of the all-time scoring list".

See the difference.

 

[DanZ]

I think what Toews was getting at is - IF Kane was 100% motivated by his personal points, he would act differently to make sure he got them. And it makes sense. He has the raw talent to score 100-120 points a year IMO. I think, talent-wise, Kane is as gifted as Crosby or Malkin.

It still doesn't make sense though. Even when Kane was a one-dimensional player if he's not anymore like Hawks fans say, he wasn't scoring at a rate anywhere near that. It seems like an odd thing to say about Kane when there are far more well rounded forwards out there that actually do sacrifice substantial offense to commit to a two way game. People claiming the linemates angle are ignoring that he gets the benefit of second line matchups.

 

[StoneHands]

Sorry, but what sacrifices is Kane making? He has to backcheck and can't cherry pick at the blue line? Is 20 minutes a game not enough ice time? Why does more talent mean more sacrifices?

Sounds like an excuse that doesn't really fit a rather one-dimensional winger. He plays some of the easiest minutes in the NHL. What star player isn't making the same "sacrifices" as Kane? This just seems like nothing more than his teammate pumping his tires.

This was my exact thought. If this was Kane with this exact same quote about Toews maybe I would buy it. Kane is an awesome player and he's always a scoring threat and when healthy towards the top of the scoring list but lets not act like he sacrifices his offense to focus on the other end of the ice.

 

[Trap Jesus]

Such a ridiculous comment. The guy has played in the most potent offense for years, he's notorious for getting a ridiculous number of offensive zone starts, and is 3rd among all wingers in TOI/G (1st among RWs), and 4th among wingers in PP TOI/G. Not to mention he's famous for playing one-way.

Shut the **** up, Toews.