Tocchet Do We Really Need Him

Your comment wasn't directed at me but are we "clearly offensively challenged" though? We don't have Miller anymore and Petey isn't playing like a 1C. For me it's hard to tell with all the injuries and we spent the bulk of the season with a defence who can't move the puck up ice. We did have that come from behind victory against Dallas and we just beat Colorado 4-1. Of course we have also have Quinn Hughes. We're definitely not an offensive juggernault by any means but we're a better offensive team than the Wild and they are ahead of us in the standings.

I think that regardless of lineup a coach can implement stylistic changes that bolsters the offense. In terms of assistant coaches, we do have Gonchar part-time who should have more of an "offensive vision." The Sedins are also around. Tocchet himself likes to play a role in how the PP is run and he likes his players to play a certain way and when it comes to stars most coaches would say they allow their star players to be creative. So I'm not sure if adding an assitant coach with more of an "offensive vision" would change things for Petey given he was invisible during 4 Nations.

When Pius Suter is your second line center I would probably suggest that we aren't an offensive juggernaut. We are bottom third in goals for (and much worse until some recent explosions)

Yes we were offensively challenged......I think Tocchet plays a more structured game that isn't necessarily always pretty and certainly doesn't set any records for shots for which doesn't necessarily endear his style to fans. Our Captain had incredibly strong words of praise for him a few days ago - to think we should replace him cus his style isn't as exciting enough for some is silly.........
 
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When Pius Suter is your second line center I would probably suggest that we aren't an offensive juggernaut. We are bottom third in goals for (and much worse until some recent explosions)

Yes we were offensively challenged......I think Tocchet plays a more structured game that isn't necessarily always pretty and certainly doesn't set any records for shots for which doesn't necessarily endear his style to fans. Our Captain had incredibly strong words of praise for him a few days ago - to think we should replace him cus his style isn't as exciting enough for some is silly.........

I'm not really disagreeing with you here. But the difference between being bottom 3rd in goals and middle of the pack is what? ~9-12 goals? Montreal has 6 more goals than we do with one less games played. Seattle has 9 more goals than us with one more game played. Florida has 12 more goals than we do with same number of games played.

In terms of style of play preference, it's been an age old discussion. It's like during the neutral zone trap era. Some are fine as long as we win. Some would rather lose than to play a boring style. At the end of the day it's about results going forward. With that said, I don't think Tocchet's team necessarily plays a boring style. It's pretty standard to me. Nothing fancy or innovative about it. Looking at recent Cup winers though, I think one thing those teams have in common is that they all successfully played a heavy forechecking game in the playoffs. This is one aspect where I think it's a personnel issue and not Tocchet's.

Knowing what Quinn things is nice but players' opinion of the coach (outside of the players hating the coach) is just small aspect of what management should be evaluating. Is Tocchet coaching a style of play that management thinks can win? If so, does management intend to acquire players that fit into the style of play Tocchet wants? Cause I don't think Tocchet is really adjusting his system to better suit his players. For example, from Day 1 we saw issues with our D's inability to make breakout passes. Did Tocchet adjust to the slow trees we have back there? Not really. We saw a slight bump for a short time when Brannstrom was here. In fact, all throughout training camp we heard that Tocchet was trying to generate more rush chances. Sounds like a plan but what aspect of the lineup made Tocchet think the team was suited to generating more rush chances compared to last season?

A lot of coaches will say they coach a similar system to [insert name of one of the league's best coaches] with slight differences. The problem is that a lot of coaches who "coach the right way" rely on best case scenarios.
 
Yes yes more offensive coach so the games will be more fun to watch........seriously? This is just plain silly...........Makes me shake my head when people say this........like we are clearly offensively challenged and our coaches are coaching to win with what they have..............

Yeah getting 17 shots a game isn't always the most exciting but we need the horses to play a more offensive game - which we clearly don't have.
Has any team..... won..... anything.... getting.... 17.... shots..... a..... game.....?

The team is studented offensively and that's why the team is struggling. Carolina for years has had less talent than the Canucks and they manage to do well every season. The Canucks right now are like a shittier version of the opposite of Carolina.
 
Has any team..... won..... anything.... getting.... 17.... shots..... a..... game.....?

The team is studented offensively and that's why the team is struggling. Carolina for years has had less talent than the Canucks and they manage to do well every season. The Canucks right now are like a shittier version of the opposite of Carolina.
I think you misunderstand the Hurricanes over the last handful of years or so.

First they've had one of the best top-4's on D in the league for quite some time led by Slavin (with younger versions of Peace, Skjei, Hamilton, Burns mixed in).

Andersen has been one of the best regular season goalies for like a decade. Raanta as well was always a good goalie but both guys just couldn't stay healthy. However as long as one of them was healthy they were going to get good results in net.

Then you have one of the best checking centers of this generation in Staal and along with Martinook and whoever is on the other wing composed one of the best checking lines in hockey year in and year out.

Yes they lack talent up front and that's pretty much been the reason they've never been able to do real damage in the playoffs but they've never been a bad team on paper, just not an elite one. They're built to be a very high floor, low ceiling team and that's what they do.

When was the last time the Canucks had a good defense on paper? 2012?

Yeah RBA might been a better coach than Tocchet, but so what? RBA is probably a top-5 coach.
 
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Has any team..... won..... anything.... getting.... 17.... shots..... a..... game.....?

The team is studented offensively and that's why the team is struggling. Carolina for years has had less talent than the Canucks and they manage to do well every season. The Canucks right now are like a shittier version of the opposite of Carolina.

So you think this was Tocchets problem? Our lack of offence? Or was it lack of personnel? You really think we can do better then the reigning coach of the year who a dozen other teams would be thrilled to sign and who our Captain apparently loves? Ok then..........carry on........
 
Yes yes more offensive coach so the games will be more fun to watch........seriously? This is just plain silly...........Makes me shake my head when people say this........like we are clearly offensively challenged and our coaches are coaching to win with what they have..............

Yeah getting 17 shots a game isn't always the most exciting but we need the horses to play a more offensive game - which we clearly don't have.

For real. What the hell is the coaching staff supposed to do when basically every catastrophe that could go wrong outside of Hughes did, lol.

I get people want to blame something but look at our sullen 1C, the crap with Miller, Demko's hips being made out of day old popcorn, etc, etc. before looking at the coaching.
 
I would be surprised if Tocchet isn't back next year but over the last few weeks I'll be perfectly honest. If Malhotra is our head coach next season I wouldn't be upset at all. At some point a young coach needs to take the job. I mean I look at Washington as an example of hiring an inexperienced coach but getting results.
 
I cannot believe my luck that the hockey gods are throwing my team a coaches challenge LIFELINE almost at the buzzer.

I have to believe that the relationship between Rick Tocchet and Elias Pettersson is a huge stumbling block right now in negotiations.

As much as I despise Tocchet's dump and chase hockey (its not what he has to work with its his system he wants to play ya dummies) IF somehow he is responsible for driving Ep40 out of town i'll put him in my coach's ROH.

If you believe he just wants more time to assess the team and where its going when its literally three old Penguins buddys running the organization and he's probably already a quasi assistant GM, your also a dummy.

If you think its about money, the last thing this group wants is more instability ya dummies. Tocchet can get whatever he wants right up to Cooper money from us, its a blank cheque.

He just doesnt want to lock into the same darn thing I fear.

Elias Pettersson, first of his name, after July 2.
 
After our Captains comments the other day I think it's pretty clear the answer to this...........He gave a VERY strong endorsement of the coach and team. Anyone suggesting we move on is out to lunch..........

True story. Most of the folks commenting need the walker if they ever rent skates and venture out onto the ice.
 
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God. Does Aquaman really want to be in for a ton of money on a coach ? Those situations never end well. Coaches sure have the owners by the balls these days.

Bring back Mike Yeo ? Hed be dirt cheap on $ and term. Then if the team gets in a rut you can just fire him without even thinking about it. Imagine a 10 game losing streak with Tocc on a 5 year 6 mill deal uggh

 
What I want to know is when he started "reprogramming" peteys brain. If it was before February of last year then I think that's reason enough to fire him.

I think it started at the beginning of last season. You can kind of see his play go downhill. And then the injury further exacerbated the issue. Kuz also failed Tocc's reprogramming (his trip to Bali instead of staying for Tocc's program probably didn't help him there either).
 
I think you misunderstand the Hurricanes over the last handful of years or so.

First they've had one of the best top-4's on D in the league for quite some time led by Slavin (with younger versions of Peace, Skjei, Hamilton, Burns mixed in).

Andersen has been one of the best regular season goalies for like a decade. Raanta as well was always a good goalie but both guys just couldn't stay healthy. However as long as one of them was healthy they were going to get good results in net.

Then you have one of the best checking centers of this generation in Staal and along with Martinook and whoever is on the other wing composed one of the best checking lines in hockey year in and year out.

Yes they lack talent up front and that's pretty much been the reason they've never been able to do real damage in the playoffs but they've never been a bad team on paper, just not an elite one. They're built to be a very high floor, low ceiling team and that's what they do.

When was the last time the Canucks had a good defense on paper? 2012?

Yeah RBA might been a better coach than Tocchet, but so what? RBA is probably a top-5 coach.
Carolina have good players for sure, but they don't have anyone nearly as good as Hughes. Pettersson, offensively, when he's healthy, is much better than anyone on their team. Over the past decade, they haven't had a player score 100 or more points.

As for Carolina never doing damage in the playoffs, I think they have. Under Rod, they haven't missed the playoffs and have only lost in the first round once.

So you think this was Tocchets problem? Our lack of offence? Or was it lack of personnel? You really think we can do better then the reigning coach of the year who a dozen other teams would be thrilled to sign and who our Captain apparently loves? Ok then..........carry on........
I don't necessarily think that getting an upgrade is likely. There aren't that many coaches around, and I would rate Tocchet as a mid-level coach. I'm just not married to the idea of Tocchet, and I think there's another gear there to be a better team offensively. The dump-and-chase game clearly doesn't favor the best offensive forward they have.


Much like building a team, the system should be moulded around the players they have.
 
I think it started at the beginning of last season. You can kind of see his play go downhill. And then the injury further exacerbated the issue. Kuz also failed Tocc's reprogramming (his trip to Bali instead of staying for Tocc's program probably didn't help him there either).
If that's the case then he has to go
 
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