Tocchet Do We Really Need Him

[F A N]

I actually just listened to the too many men podcast from next week, and though I like Toc, and think he is a good coach, I think they changed my mind and it maybe time to part ways.

The two big points were that he is supposedly is the coach that isn’t the X and Os guy and is more the vibes and motivation guy… well that went to shit in a hand bag this year. That is where he is supposed to shine.

Second after a terrible year Like this, sometimes a fresh start is what’s needed, for all parties.

They went into more detail, but it made sense, and again this isn’t to say I don’t think Toc is good. Just maybe a time to change.

Good points although I don't even know who among coaches is known as a pure X and Os guy. While we're no where close to NBA territory, I think for the longest time coaches need to be more vibes and motivation. There's no tactical genius coach coaching teams to the Stanley Cup that I am aware of. But ya, you can have an assistant coach handle the Xs and Os including the eye in the sky.

I don't know who the too many men podcast people are but that's always been the sense I've had about Tocchet. Pretty sure I've mentioned in earlier in this thread. Canucks were doing much better under Tocchet when they had the X's and O's guys in Mike Yeo and Brad Shaw behind Tocchet who was the motivator guy. This year they have Yogi and I just don't think the former skills coach has the right ideas. I've seen in-depth analysis by some people on Canucks systems and most call them the most basic of systems.

Shaw never coached behind Tocchet. Tocchet is a relatively experienced NHL head coach so he is suppose to be able to replace an experienced coach like Yeo with Yogi since he has his right hand man in Foote.

In terms of the PP, I think we need someone else in there. Tocchet just isn't good at coaching the PP and that has followed him.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Good points although I don't even know who among coaches is known as a pure X and Os guy. While we're no where close to NBA territory, I think for the longest time coaches need to be more vibes and motivation. There's no tactical genius coach coaching teams to the Stanley Cup that I am aware of. But ya, you can have an assistant coach handle the Xs and Os including the eye in the sky.

There are in general two kinds of coaches.

Vibes coaches and Xs and Os coaches.

Usually the assistants fill in for what the head coach lacks.


Great example of this can be seen in Tampa.


But then again, what constitutes a coach and how much can we truely know about anything in life. Am I right F A N?

 

[ManVanFan]

Shaw never coached behind Tocchet. Tocchet is a relatively experienced NHL head coach so he is suppose to be able to replace an experienced coach like Yeo with Yogi since he has his right hand man in Foote.

In terms of the PP, I think we need someone else in there. Tocchet just isn't good at coaching the PP and that has followed him.

You're right Shaw was under the Green-Boudreau administration haha. Hard to remember. Canucks have only had about 12 coaches in the past 4 years.
Edit: Wrong again, Canucks have had 13 coaches in the past 4 years.

 

[VancouverJagger]

After our Captains comments the other day I think it's pretty clear the answer to this...........He gave a VERY strong endorsement of the coach and team. Anyone suggesting we move on is out to lunch..........

 

[ManVanFan]

After our Captains comments the other day I think it's pretty clear the answer to this...........He gave a VERY strong endorsement of the coach and team. Anyone suggesting we move on is out to lunch..........

Bruce was a very well liked coached but results matter.

 

[F A N]

Great example of this can be seen in Tampa.


But then again, what constitutes a coach and how much can we truely know about anything in life. Am I right F A N?

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Also, are you saying Jon Cooper is an X and Os guy or he isn’t?

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Also, are you saying Jon Cooper is an X and Os guy or he isn’t?

He manages people.

Delegates the tactical side to his asistants. And is really good at heading the coaching staff.

 

[VancouverJagger]

Bruce was a very well liked coached but results matter.

My god..........you think any other coach on the planet would have done better with the cards we were dealt this year? It's a miracle we are where we are right now and that's largely due in part to our coaching staff.

Bruce? My god if Bruce were our coach now we would be the 30th placed team and our fans would be rioting.........

 

[F A N]

He manages people.

Delegates the tactical side to his asistants. And is really good at heading the coaching staff.

See. Was it so hard to type a few more words to get your point across?

My god..........you think any other coach on the planet would have done better with the cards we were dealt this year? It's a miracle we are where we are right now and that's largely due in part to our coaching staff.

Bruce? My god if Bruce were our coach now we would be the 30th placed team and our fans would be rioting.........

To be fair, the only time Bruce had a losing record in the NHL was in his last season here.

Since we're out of the playoffs, I actually do prefer being the 30th placed team.

 

[VancouverJagger]

See. Was it so hard to type a few more words to get your point across?



To be fair, the only time Bruce had a losing record in the NHL was in his last season here.

Since we're out of the playoffs, I actually do prefer being the 30th placed team.

Bruce coached some solid teams over the years .........I think management clearly wanted him gone due to his lack of structure - the exact opposite to what Tocchet has brought us.

Nice guy but the game seems to have passed him by.........and sure if we had a 30th placed team all year the fans would be up in arms and the team would probably be looking to promote Manny.

 

[me2]

How many more coaches does management have in it? If they bring in a new coach and the team misses the playoffs allvin and jr are out of jobs. Maybe they can survive that if they keep tocchet as the fall guy.

 

[VancouverJagger]

How many more coaches does management have in it? If they bring in a new coach and the team misses the playoffs allvin and jr are out of jobs. Maybe they can survive that if they keep tocchet as the fall guy.

I think management has a lot of runway here.............maybe I'm still recovering from the dark ages of Dimbo but overall they have clearly been building something here..........our farm is amazing, we have some great prospects, when they make a mistake they move off of it relatively quickly........I give them a B or B+ so far. This offseason will be very telling though.

 

[F A N]

Bruce coached some solid teams over the years .........I think management clearly wanted him gone due to his lack of structure - the exact opposite to what Tocchet has brought us.

Nice guy but the game seems to have passed him by.........and sure if we had a 30th placed team all year the fans would be up in arms and the team would probably be looking to promote Manny.

Well I don't think the game has passed Boudreau by. Boudreau has coached good defensive teams before (Ducks and Wild). He did coach this team to a winning record when he took over for Green. I don't think the system he runs or his strategies are outdated and I don't think he is somehow an ineffective communicator here. But he's 70 now so ya I don't think he'll find another head coaching job.

 

[WTG]

Pretty much all the advanced stats are mid. The splits between Hughes on the ice vs everyone else is absurd.

I don't mind the assistant coaches but I think bringing in a coach with more of an offensive vision would be better. Pettersson being injured for the season certainly doesn't help. Regardless, Tocchett couldn't get the best out of Pettersson who they committed to long term. I would not oppose seeing him go depending on who is available.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

See. Was it so hard to type a few more words to get your point across?

The point was clear in the first post.

 

[F A N]

The point was clear in the first post.

Lol. Only in your head. But thanks for repeating the same points I and another poster made without acknowledging it. Very insightful.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Lol. Only in your head. But thanks for repeating the same points I and another poster made without acknowledging it. Very insightful.

No.

The point wasn't wether Cooper is an Xs and Os coach or not.

It was that the most successful coach currently, with the longest tenure, is delegating the responsibilities that were discussed in this thread.

You just decided to focus on a detail of the comment as you usually do.

 

[F A N]

No.

The point wasn't wether Cooper is an Xs and Os coach or not.

It was that the most successful coach currently, with the longest tenure, is delegating the responsibilities that were discussed in this thread.

You just decided to focus on a detail of the comment as you usually do.

No offense. I just find your posts difficult to understand and odd in conversation. It's like you have a point to make but only spit out something vague and expect people to understand you.

This is your post:

There are in general two kinds of coaches.

Vibes coaches and Xs and Os coaches.

Usually the assistants fill in for what the head coach lacks.

Great example of this can be seen in Tampa.

But then again, what constitutes a coach and how much can we truely know about anything in life. Am I right F A N?

Somehow you think you're clearly making the point that "the most successful coach currently, with the longest tenure, is delegating the responsibilities that were discussed in this thread?"

 

[Diablo2020]

Im so torn because I dislike Tocchet hockey as a fan.

But I think he hates Ep40 so I want him back just so im that much closer to seeing Ep40 gone.

Id be content with coach Manny Malhotra and the Bure package for Ep40 as long as the Jovocop is a center and the goalie of the future is a center and Hedican is Hoglander.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

No offense. I just find your posts difficult to understand and odd in conversation. It's like you have a point to make but only spit out something vague and expect people to understand you.

None taken. From what Ive seen this happens to you alot on these forums.

This is your post:



Somehow you think you're clearly making the point that "the most successful coach currently, with the longest tenure, is delegating the responsibilities that were discussed in this thread?"

Yes.

What did you understand it to mean?

You seem to be the only one who keeps focusing on these small details that are not crucial to the point.

 

[VancouverJagger]

Pretty much all the advanced stats are mid. The splits between Hughes on the ice vs everyone else is absurd.

I don't mind the assistant coaches but I think bringing in a coach with more of an offensive vision would be better. Pettersson being injured for the season certainly doesn't help. Regardless, Tocchett couldn't get the best out of Pettersson who they committed to long term. I would not oppose seeing him go depending on who is available.

Yes yes more offensive coach so the games will be more fun to watch........seriously? This is just plain silly...........Makes me shake my head when people say this........like we are clearly offensively challenged and our coaches are coaching to win with what they have..............

Yeah getting 17 shots a game isn't always the most exciting but we need the horses to play a more offensive game - which we clearly don't have.

 

[tantalum]

I think Boudreau was liked because, well, he came in and hockey was fun again for the players.

I think Tocchet is liked because he is open and honest, even keeled and along with his staff clearly making players better.

I don't find Tocchet hockey boring. I think it's a good brand of hockey when the roster is all pulling on the same rope. When they aren't well then it's a disaster...but that goes for any system. In the end, they are going to end up in the mushy middle for offense, a bit better for defense with good special teams.

 

[Raistlin]

you need him because he kept the team competitive amidst internal turmoil and really bad injury luck starting with Dakota's cancer diagnosis, Demko injuries, hronek missing the first 20 games, miller leave, Hughes multiple injuries, and EP general malaise. these are all clear guys he depends on.

but mostly, you need him because

QH43 says you do.

 

[Ernie]

I don't find Tocchet hockey boring. I think it's a good brand of hockey when the roster is all pulling on the same rope. When they aren't well then it's a disaster...but that goes for any system. In the end, they are going to end up in the mushy middle for offense, a bit better for defense with good special teams.

Boring or not, I think it's very questionable whether it's a brand of hockey that can generate enough offence to be successful in the offseason.

On the other hand he did try to adjust the system but he just hasn't had the horses this season, so we'll see.

I'd feel a lot better if they brought some additional voices in. The last 5 Stanley Cup winners have had decades of pro coaching experience amongst the assistant coaches.

The Canucks? Foote has never had an NHL or AHL coaching position before this one - his only real experience is as a WHL coach for season and a half. Yogi is in his first coaching role.

Time and time again, we see how much experience matters amongst NHL coaches. Tocchet has had a lot of stops in the NHL and can draw from that, but he has no backup.

 

[F A N]

Yes yes more offensive coach so the games will be more fun to watch........seriously? This is just plain silly...........Makes me shake my head when people say this........like we are clearly offensively challenged and our coaches are coaching to win with what they have..............

Yeah getting 17 shots a game isn't always the most exciting but we need the horses to play a more offensive game - which we clearly don't have.

Your comment wasn't directed at me but are we "clearly offensively challenged" though? We don't have Miller anymore and Petey isn't playing like a 1C. For me it's hard to tell with all the injuries and we spent the bulk of the season with a defence who can't move the puck up ice. We did have that come from behind victory against Dallas and we just beat Colorado 4-1. Of course we have also have Quinn Hughes. We're definitely not an offensive juggernault by any means but we're a better offensive team than the Wild and they are ahead of us in the standings.

I think that regardless of lineup a coach can implement stylistic changes that bolsters the offense. In terms of assistant coaches, we do have Gonchar part-time who should have more of an "offensive vision." The Sedins are also around. Tocchet himself likes to play a role in how the PP is run and he likes his players to play a certain way and when it comes to stars most coaches would say they allow their star players to be creative. So I'm not sure if adding an assitant coach with more of an "offensive vision" would change things for Petey given he was invisible during 4 Nations.