Tocchet Do We Really Need Him

[PuckMunchkin]

And what exactly was incorrect about what I said?

Money does not stop mattering even if you have a lot of it.

 

[arttk]

I completely agree. It's this entitlement that people in hockey have that if you're "forced" to coach or GM the last year of your contract you're somehow a "lame duck."



We don't know if the reported team option for Tocchet is structured similarly than Boudreau's. I'm thinking not as there's no reported option of Tocchet opting out (something that Boudreau head). So in that sense, Boudreau's team option is more complicated because it is a two step process where if the team picks up the option year the coach still can say no and walk away. It doesn't sound like Tocchet has the same walkaway option so it would be as simple as the team deciding whether to pick up the option year or not. I do suspect that Tocchet gets some form of payment if the option isn't picked up.

I am honestly quite frustrated with the messaging. This isn't a Rod Brind'Amour situation where the owner and the GM constantly re-affirmed that they want RBA back and a deal will get done. Canucks management could have gotten in front of this and said that there is a team option and either say they will evaluate everything at the end of the year or say they will hopefully work out a longer term extension. Heck they could have rewarded Tocchet last year with a 2 year extension that at least turned the option into an actual contract year

This sounds more like a case of Toc wanting more money. Not sure the timing changes anything since he did win the coach of the year and got the team into the playoffs.

 

[kanucks25]

Money does not stop mattering even if you have a lot of it.

I mean we're trying to get into his head here so nobody really knows, but based on everything we've learned about Tocchet thus far and all the comments he's made regarding his future here, does he seems like the type to you sign a long-term contract to be the coach of a team he does not believe in just because it'll pay more than his media gig?

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I mean we're trying to get into his head here so nobody really knows, but based on everything we've learned about Tocchet thus far and all the comments he's made regarding his future here, down he seems like the type to you sign a long-term contract to be the coach of a team he does not believe in just because it'll pay more than his media gig?

Its also about pride. Why doesnt he deserve ti be paid like an average coach in the NHL?

There is zero reason for him to take a paycut.

Its the same with players. Meaningful paycuts are extremely rare.

 

[kanucks25]

Its also about pride. Why doesnt he deserve ti be paid like an average coach in the NHL?

There is zero reason for him to take a paycut.

Its the same with players. Meaningful paycuts are extremely rare.

I'm not sure what you're talking about. Maybe I'm misreading or misinterpreting.

I didn't say anything about him taking a pay cut as a coach. He'll get an above average salary anywhere he decides to coach based on reputation and what he's accomplished in his time in Vancouver.

If he opts to do media instead then yeah I assume he will need to accept a pay cut because I doubt TNT or whatever will pay him anywhere near the several mil per year he'd make as a coach.

 

[Canucks LB]

I will tell you one thing for sure.
The media got to him this year, no doubt.

Answers are not as in depth as below, and is way more guarded.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I'm not sure what you're talking about. Maybe I'm misreading or misinterpreting.

I didn't say anything about him taking a pay cut as a coach. He'll get an above average salary anywhere he decides to coach based on reputation and what he's accomplished in his time in Vancouver.

If he opts to do media instead then yeah I assume he will need to accept a pay cut because I doubt TNT or whatever will pay him anywhere near the several mil per year he'd make as a coach.

Huh?

The Canucks have been very stingy with coach salaries. The last coach that actually got paid was Torts a decade ago.

 

[ExarKun80]

You guys need to pump the breaks on Rick. He had a stacked team last year, the most stacked since 2011. Greener has just made the playoffs with the Senators at game 77. This alone beats anything that Rick has achieved as a HC and I don't see anyone claiming how good of a coch Green is.
Let's see what he does next year before giving him a long term extension. He has not shown that he can adapt his coaching style to the players he has like AV did. His style just does not fit our best players and we don't have the assets to build a team that fits his style. You can't turn Petey into Shane Doan. Ridding Hughes into the ground is not a sign of good coaching. I want someone like AV that knows how handle the minutes of star players.

 

[rypper]

You guys need to pump the breaks on Rick. He had a stacked team last year, the most stacked since 2011. Greener has just made the playoffs with the Senators at game 77. This alone beats anything that Rick has achieved as a HC and I don't see anyone claiming how good of a coch Green is.
Let's see what he does next year before giving him a long term extension. He has not shown that he can adapt his coaching style to the players he has like AV did. His style just does not fit our best players and we don't have the assets to build a team that fits his style. You can't turn Petey into Shane Doan. Ridding Hughes into the ground is not a sign of good coaching. I want someone like AV that knows how handle the minutes of star players.

Canucks clinched last season in game 73.

 

[ExarKun80]

Canucks clinched last season in game 73.

Buddy, you just don't get it.

 

[rypper]

Buddy, you just don't get it.

I don't think you do.

You made a statement about green that's wrong.

Regardless, Tocchet took a team where anything that could go wrong, did go wrong, and had them in the hunt until deep into March.

If this was the same team as last season and he managed to blow it then by all means criticize away. This team dealt with so much shit this season at some point all Tocchet can do is take the rotten lemon rinds that are left and mix it with puddle water and try to make lemonade.

The teams shit season isn't because Tocchet played Deharnais and Juulsen too much. Tocchet's share of what went wrong is so low down on the list.

 

[ExarKun80]

I don't think you do.

You made a statement about green that's wrong.

Regardless, Tocchet took a team where anything that could go wrong, did go wrong, and had them in the hunt until deep into March.

If this was the same team as last season and he managed to blow it then by all means criticize away. This team dealt with so much shit this season at some point all Tocchet can do is take the rotten lemon rinds that are left and mix it with puddle water and try to make lemonade.

The teams shit season isn't because Tocchet played Deharnais and Juulsen too much. Tocchet's share of what went wrong is so low down on the list.

You still don't get it.
I wanted to show you that Rick making the playoffs with a stacked team does not mean much when coaches like Green make the playoffs with an inferior squad. Hell, Willie D made the playoffs with aging Sedins and Vrbata. If Rick was such a good HC then he would have made the playoffs more than 2 times in 9 seasons even on mediocre teams. This talk about him like he is an elite coach is just stupid. He is not and he will never at 60+years old. AV was twice the HC Rick will ever was/is/will ever be.

 

[HairyKneel]

You guys need to pump the breaks on Rick. He had a stacked team last year, the most stacked since 2011. Greener has just made the playoffs with the Senators at game 77. This alone beats anything that Rick has achieved as a HC and I don't see anyone claiming how good of a coch Green is.
Let's see what he does next year before giving him a long term extension. He has not shown that he can adapt his coaching style to the players he has like AV did. His style just does not fit our best players and we don't have the assets to build a team that fits his style. You can't turn Petey into Shane Doan. Ridding Hughes into the ground is not a sign of good coaching. I want someone like AV that knows how handle the minutes of star players.

AV was an average coach. Good guy who is so overrated in this market.

 

[HairyKneel]

Pat Quinn
Roger Neilson
Phil Maloney
Mike Keenan
John Tortorella



AV, Crow, Travis, Willie, Bruce, Bill Laforge, Orland, Harry Neale, Rick Ley etc. AV is best of that bunch, slightly

 

[Nick Lang]

If this was the same team as last season and he managed to blow it then by all means criticize away. This team dealt with so much shit this season at some point all Tocchet can do is take the rotten lemon rinds that are left and mix it with puddle water and try to make lemonade.

The teams shit season isn't because Tocchet played Deharnais and Juulsen too much. Tocchet's share of what went wrong is so low down on the list.

People that can't see this are hockey blind, inexperienced, or are just in so much denial that they are looking for someone to blame. Anyone with hockey experience can clearly see there are far greater issues plaguing the team. You could have put anyone else behind the bench this season and we'd be no better off with the squad we're icing out there.

 

[Oliewud]

You guys need to pump the breaks on Rick. He had a stacked team last year, the most stacked since 2011. Greener has just made the playoffs with the Senators at game 77. This alone beats anything that Rick has achieved as a HC and I don't see anyone claiming how good of a coch Green is.
Let's see what he does next year before giving him a long term extension. He has not shown that he can adapt his coaching style to the players he has like AV did. His style just does not fit our best players and we don't have the assets to build a team that fits his style. You can't turn Petey into Shane Doan. Ridding Hughes into the ground is not a sign of good coaching. I want someone like AV that knows how handle the minutes of star players.

everyone listen to this man

 

[PuckMunchkin]

People that can't see this are hockey blind, inexperienced, or are just in so much denial that they are looking for someone to blame. Anyone with hockey experience can clearly see there are far greater issues plaguing the team. You could have put anyone else behind the bench this season and we'd be no better off with the squad we're icing out there.

The one thing I would blame on Rick is not being able to figure out the powerplay in all his time here.

He needs to delegate that duty to someone asap.

I think he is at worst a average NHL head coach.

 

[Nick Lang]

The one thing I would blame on Rick is not being able to figure out the powerplay in all his time here.

He needs to delegate that duty to someone asap.

I think he is at worst a average NHL head coach.

Yes no one is infallible. There seems to be some pretty big disconnect there but it's hard to tell exactly what is going on. RT always praises Yogi and says they are very happy with the plan and practice, but when it comes to the game he's mad the players aren't executing it. That only goes so far though to the point I wonder if RT is just missing some crucial details, like up to date strategy or overall understanding of what to do here. If he stays on it must be addressed, hopefully with an assistant coach who can concentrate on more offensive play, including the PP.

One think I will say is that Petterson doesn't seem to listen to the coaches either as he doesn't shoot when he has openings. He wastes time and chances, and he gets caught often making weak plays that lead to high danger shorthanded chances. Hughes is really starting to figure out his role better though and is getting real good at getting the puck through for quality shots and rebounds there without simply wasting time spinning in circles and playing pass. He's got the play with urgency part down better. A massive problem is that after a struggling EP40, an improving Hughes, and a capable Boeser, everyone else just sucks. We need more quality out there. Garland and Debrusk are very poor and the rest are worse.

It's really hard to evaluate coaches. There are only 32 NHL ones out there at any given time, with unique track records, opportunity, and on teams of varying skill and points in their cycle. I think it's obvious RT has been average at worst and likely one of the better coaches overall in his Canucks tenure. I think he's been excellent at keeping this team (and his head) on the tracks this season.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Yes no one is infallible. There seems to be some pretty big disconnect there but it's hard to tell exactly what is going on. RT always praises Yogi and says they are very happy with the plan and practice, but when it comes to the game he's mad the players aren't executing it. That only goes so far though to the point I wonder if RT is just missing some crucial details, like up to date strategy or overall understanding of what to do here. If he stays on it must be addressed, hopefully with an assistant coach who can concentrate on more offensive play, including the PP.

One think I will say is that Petterson doesn't seem to listen to the coaches either as he doesn't shoot when he has openings. He wastes time and chances, and he gets caught often making weak plays that lead to high danger shorthanded chances. Hughes is really starting to figure out his role better though and is getting real good at getting the puck through for quality shots and rebounds there without simply wasting time spinning in circles and playing pass. He's got the play with urgency part down better. A massive problem is that after a struggling EP40, an improving Hughes, and a capable Boeser, everyone else just sucks. We need more quality out there. Garland and Debrusk are very poor and the rest are worse.

I dont think Pettersons shot has been there for him for a long time now.

It's really hard to evaluate coaches. There are only 32 NHL ones out there at any given time, with unique track records, opportunity, and on teams of varying skill and points in their cycle. I think it's obvious RT has been average at worst and likely one of the better coaches overall in his Canucks tenure. I think he's been excellent at keeping this team (and his head) on the tracks this season.

Agree on most of this.

 

[Regress2TheMeme]

I hope Tocchet sticks around. The grass always looks greener, but it can be a lot worse than what we have, and probably would be worse if we lose him. He's not perfect but he's able to build a culture that this team had been missing since Vigneault. The team was dealt a shitty hand this year. I don't think it's rational to roll the dice on another rookie coach at this point. Let's see where the team goes with Hughes and Tocchet when they have stable goaltending and Peaty scoring again.