To quote JD. This team needs to get tougher

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Age old argument. I’m on the side of the fence that believes and have believed that they need to get tougher for decades. The game has changed however. Tougher doesn’t mean they need to add Joey Kocur or Darren Langdon.

Tougher to me is adding players that can play a heavy game when it matters. Division rivalries, the stretch of games after the trade deadline, ultimately the playoffs.

To dive deeper, adding the type players that can do it while in a larger role. Top 6 players that can bang, and play physical but also have the skill set to produce both offensively and not be a liability defensively. Same for top pairing defenseman.

Agreed. Battle level. Cycle and hit the opposing Ds. Get in the other goalies faces. Stick up for your teammates, etc. The 2010-11/2011-12 Rangers were a very tough group.

It goes back to building the bottom six.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Have we progressed from pretending Staal doesn’t suck to pretending people think he’s the only problem?

Yay.

Evidently we haven't moved pass the get rid of Staal and there will be world peace mentality.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Always posters here complaining about posters stating we draft too many soft euro's. Fine. We draft too many soft players. First thing JD said was this team needs to get tougher. It was obvious watching the Blues we are soft as a team. Size does matter on defense. Look at the Blues. I am confident that Gorton and JD will use players like DeAngelo, Buchnevich, Georgiev and perhaps Fast to upgrade our pansy forward unit and start building a legit bottom 6 forward unit as well as perhaps adding a top 6 forward.

Good thing is that this team has players that teams already with size and toughness could use because they need a little more offensive skill. As well as a goalie in Georgiev. This loyalty to Staal needs to stop. He makes ZERO sense here. From all reports Rykov is playing very well. Bring him up. Put Staal in the stands.

Stopped reading when you suggested using DeAngelo, one of our toughest players, to trade in order to get tougher.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

Evidently we haven't moved pass the get rid of Staal and there will be world peace mentality.

There is so much gaslighting on this site.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

There is so much gaslighting on this site.

Look, I get the frustration. And I'm not going to suggest that Staal has been anywhere close to good. The game and the way the position is played has evolved and he's a bit of a dinosaur. But OP suggests the need for toughness and then wants to remedy that by scratching Staal.

That's like saying the team lacks team so they should have started Georgiev in net.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

Always posters here complaining about posters stating we draft too many soft euro's. Fine. We draft too many soft players. First thing JD said was this team needs to get tougher. It was obvious watching the Blues we are soft as a team. Size does matter on defense. Look at the Blues. I am confident that Gorton and JD will use players like DeAngelo, Buchnevich, Georgiev and perhaps Fast to upgrade our pansy forward unit and start building a legit bottom 6 forward unit as well as perhaps adding a top 6 forward.

Good thing is that this team has players that teams already with size and toughness could use because they need a little more offensive skill. As well as a goalie in Georgiev. This loyalty to Staal needs to stop. He makes ZERO sense here. From all reports Rykov is playing very well. Bring him up. Put Staal in the stands.

so to fix the toughness issue you want to trade away 2 players that have more toughness than most players that you are not trading? I think toughness thing is not just on players, but the coaching staff, we need coaches that demand players to finish their checks hard.

 

[Bring Back Avery]

Oh please...

You act as if the Rangers sans the early 90s haven't had a long, long term issue of pretty faces and clean play.

If we didn't have such garbage prospects, the Rangers would win more Lady Byngs, but you have to be good like Paul Kariya to get those.

Oh, I know we've been soft for a while now. Especially under AV. But it's hard to get out of that culture especially with the youth on the team and the way the league is trending. Just look at any time Lemieux or Kreider hit somebody..."5 minute major. Game Misconduct." Kinda makes the guys leary of making hits or being "tuff".
Personally I've always been a fan of the tough guys in the league. Give me a Joey Kocur or a Bob Probert or a Hanson Brothers line any day.

 

[NYRKindms]

the team throws the softest checks if they check at all. goals in this league come from turnovers and mistakes. easiest way to manufacture turnovers and mistakes is to throw the body and have defensemen thinking they are gonna get hit everytime they touch the puck. Fast plays that game consistently but hes only one guy. has to be a team mentality

 

[OverTheCap]

Mental toughness, aggressive forechecking, standing attackers up at the blueline - yes. Fighting, players who are big but don't have any use except for their size, reckless Hollweg-types - no.

The former is a type of toughness that is effective in the league. The latter is an outmoded idea of toughness that no longer has much utility in this league. The Rangers sometimes have trouble distinguishing the two which is why we still have players like Haley on the team, they need to get away from that.

 

[Machinehead]

If only we were hitting teams harder while getting outshot every f***ing game.

 

[eco's bones]

I do agree that the team needs some more “sandpaper”. My hypothesis is that a “critical mass” of “toughness” is required to infect the whole team with a winning attitude. (I know it’s vague, it’s just a hypothesis )
I think the Rangers are close when Lemieux is healthy along with ADA, Trouba, Lindgren. I’d like to see a couple more such forwards added as we proceed. Not goons, but guys who make space and stick up for teammates.

What it really comes down to is the Rangers need to find their own versions of Sundqvist, Barbashev, Blais and Sanford and for what that's worth that's a Swede, a Russian, a Canadian and an American so it's not strictly dependent on where the player comes from......but these guys for St. Louis have size and grit--they hit and they contribute to the offense. The Rangers need guys like this for their bottom 6 and we right now really only have Brendan Lemieux that fits into that kind of categorization.

All that said it took St. Louis a lot of time and effort to get to where they are. The Rangers are the youngest team in the league--we're a couple years out from a letter and the team has made progress. The blame here goes to Quinn for the Rangers being so inconsistent but IMO the inconsistency is par for the course we're on. People talking about Laviolette should think twice. Laviolette is a good coach but he's not a youth guy really. We have to figure out our young.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

Look, I get the frustration. And I'm not going to suggest that Staal has been anywhere close to good. The game and the way the position is played has evolved and he's a bit of a dinosaur. But OP suggests the need for toughness and then wants to remedy that by scratching Staal.

That's like saying the team lacks team so they should have started Georgiev in net.

I'm saying the gaslighting was the post about "yo who was saying Staal is the problem?"

That is textbook gaslighting and happens all the time on this site.

 

[Machinehead]

I'm saying the gaslighting was the post about "yo who was saying Staal is the problem?"

That is textbook gaslighting and happens all the time on this site.

This entire "we need to get tougher" thing is gaslighting.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

Oh, I know we've been soft for a while now. Especially under AV. But it's hard to get out of that culture especially with the youth on the team and the way the league is trending. Just look at any time Lemieux or Kreider hit somebody..."5 minute major. Game Misconduct." Kinda makes the guys leary of making hits or being "tuff".
Personally I've always been a fan of the tough guys in the league. Give me a Joey Kocur or a Bob Probert or a Hanson Brothers line any day.

I appreciate Lemmy a lot, but when I mean a tougher team, I mean hybrids of skill and physicality. More like his dad than himself.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

This entire "we need to get tougher" thing is gaslighting.

i can't make this shit up guys...

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

Is Kravtsov another softie or he plays physical? If he is soft, I would look to trade him for similar but more physical prospect.

 

[Machinehead]

i can't make this **** up guys...

Making it up is exactly what we're doing. There's been more penalties for and against in Rangers games than any other individual team.

 

[McRanger]

Evidently we haven't moved pass the get rid of Staal and there will be world peace mentality.

Yeah it’s crazy that people want to get rid of our worst player.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

Making it up is exactly what we're doing. There's been more penalties for and against in Rangers games than any other individual team.

Forget it man. I've tried with you for f***ing years...

 

[Machinehead]

Forget it man. I've with you for ****ing years...

I've dealt with "this team needs to get tougher" for f***ing years. It's a boogeyman.

 

[Doctyl]

Is Kravtsov another softie or he plays physical? If he is soft, I would look to trade him for similar but more physical prospect.

Yea, I mean I would support trading every player on the team for an equally skilled but more physical version of themselves. Those players are not available

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

Yea, I mean I would support trading every player on the team for an equally skilled but more physical version of themselves. Those players are not available

We can pay extra if needed to get those players.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Yeah it’s crazy that people want to get rid of our worst player.

Crazy that people still think that Staal can be easily gotten rid of.

Or that it would have a huge impact on this team as it is now.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I wouldn’t say the team isn’t tough enough. The players aren’t strong enough. Especially the kids. We lose every single board battle. It’s not like the Blues were gooning it up and we had no answer. They just got every puck. Once we trade Kreider it’s going to get even worse. A lot of finesse on our team.

 

[Joey Bones]

My thing is it’s not about toughness because NYR has enough players that are tough/grind (Lemieux, Smith, Fast, Trouba, McKegg, Haley, Lindgren, DeAngelo, Staal, Strome) & out of those we have some bruisers in Lemieux, Haley, Lindgren, & Trouba in some cases. But let’s not let toughness camouflage the fact that this team is not defensively structured. A lot of the time there is so much puck watching & not enough board battles to help out defensively. It’s more zone hockey & that’s how theses chances are happening for the opposing offense. A tighter structure needs to be influenced. Being physical & tough along the boards, winning board battles in the process, will signify more opposition turnovers than blocking a shot or being in a lane.

With that said, we also have to take in the fact that most of the team is 24 years old & younger. In circumstances like Hajek, Kakko, Howden or Chytil, they’re still developing on their growing bodies. It’s encouraging to see Howden & Chytil attempt to win board battles, but they aren’t necessarily winning them either. Hajek needs the work still. It would be nice to see Kakko do something in the corners, though, but he’s 18. Fox the same, however he’s pretty good with his awareness to overcome a turnover. It’ll come.

I think all in all the defensive structure of this team is lacking & with three goalies (one who is crashing from a HoF career to a second or third year goalie who has his ups & downs to a rookie who has looked really promising in a very small NHL sample size) they need to have help. They don’t have a keeper who can keep them in games night in & night out & that’s why you see games like last night.

Another thing, not totally unrelated to the toughness thing, is the fourth line. IMO, the fourth line lacks so much in a scoring atmosphere that it gives more time for an opposing team to create in NYR’s defensive zone. I feel if they had a line that had the tough/grind aspect, but be able to put the opposing team on their heels a bit & create chances, it would leave less defensive responsibility & another chance to catch really good teams on the defensive. It could really change an entire game by having a reliable fourth line to play while resting some of NYR’s better players/keeper.