TML - Climate

[Nylanderthal]

The problem is, they made decisions and are expecting guys to do things they’ve not done before or at least not recently.
If Bunting and Kampf do what they’ve always done they’ll be fine additions.
Expecting the others, including Simmonds, to out perform their past 5 yrs is wishful thinking.

You’re right, it’s early and the stars will begin to perform up to standard and they’ll go on run.

They don’t need simmer to turn back the clock, the effort and production from the bottom of the line up has been just fine. They need their game breakers to be game breakers.

 

[nuck]

IMHO we need some perspective here. It is early. It's not scorched earth time yet.

I know that a couple of bad losses can bring out the anger and resentment.

I just want to bring up a few things:

Matthews has missed a few games due to surgery. He likely went on high adrenaline his first game and is now trying to get his legs/conditioning.

The goalie tandem Dubas wished for is only 50% there. Mrazek should bring more than Hutch can muster.

There are 4 new forwards learning the system and trying to mesh with their line-mates.

Toronto hasn't even played 10 games. They are still in the middle of the pack (5 points). The -7 goal differential is a little concerning but they can still dig themselves out at this point.

Yes they need to be better, but let's not rant about how everyone needs to be traded/fired.

"We can't be Fairweather Fans."

I agree its only 6 games in but have you noticed the crazy shot differentials from the first few games are gone? Mitch is still not scoring and the pp is at 15%. People are saying JT is done or not showing emotion but he has not thrived at all under Keefe. Even in 2019 coming off a broken finger while the club was crashing for Babcock he had more game than now. Did he get slow or did he get Keefed? 16 minutes a game now that Matthews is back and JTs TOI last season shows the coach's confidence in him. They can't trade pieces at their lowest value and Shanny and Dubas aren't going to fire themselves but they can make an adjustment that will give the big 4 a reset.

The knife doesn't have to come out tomorrow but the club doesn't owe SK the 23 games they gave his predecessor either. He hasn't earned that based on the effort he has these guys bringing so the leash needs to be pretty short. When Babs got turfed Tavares missed more games with a broken finger than AM did and the goalie tandem he was rolling with include 0-4 Hutch and his .875 sv%. There were 3 new D and a couple of new forwards learning the system. Some similarities there even without the negative relationship between coach and GM. Maybe its early but maybe not.

A couple of wins and they will maybe bounce back for a typical Leaf regular season. A couple more bad losses and people will start saying "he has lost the room". I think they win 2 of the next 3 but we'll see.

 

[Nineteen67]

They don’t need simmer to turn back the clock, the effort and production from the bottom of the line up has been just fine. They need their game breakers to be game breakers.

That’s definitely true.

I was using him as an example. Expecting to play with the same effort the entire season is asking too much. He hasn’t done it since Philly.

 

[ToneDog]

Last year I was debating that Marner was not a bargain at $10.893m (LOL). The year prior one Marner fanboy Marner and wanted to bet Marner would hit 100 points the next regular season. Well he needs 99 points in his next 76 games to hit 100 and even then, he is no bargain. Sad times.

 

[Nineteen67]

The day dubas was handed over the keys it is been nothing but downhill...

- team culture
- team results
- cap space
- team assets
- team future
- fan interest/engagement

biggest problem on the team is the GM and his stupid vision

They don’t sell out home games, either. Some of that is out of their control, but not all of it.
I’m going to three or four cities this season and I typically I try to schedule around the Leafs, but I’m not doing that this year.

 

[ottomaddox]

My boy, it's 6 games with 0 effort, 0 compete, 0 heart and 0 passion. It is not early, it's year 6 with this core. And it's not just this season, it's every season.

Had a 3rd period lead in game 7 vs Boston, choked
had a 3-2 series lead and choked it vs Boston in game 7
Got slapped by Columbus and shut out in game 5
Choked a 3-1 lead vs the 18th place Montreal Canadiens

No one is shitting on Hutch for sucking, we know he's an AHL goalie. But tell me why we're paying 4 forwards 40 million and our team only generated 1 goal, and that one came from Spezza...none of the big 4 forwards. ONE GOAL, I don't care if Soup/Hutch allow 20 goals, ONE GOAL is unacceptable especially against a god damn AHL roster.

Matthews/Marner are not new and have looked like garbage. Bunting/Ritchie etc are not the reason why those 2 have been no shows and refuse to compete

It's half a decade of incompetence now. Half a decade. We got Matthews in 2016. It's not being a fairweather fan, it's being an actual fan. My allegiance is to this team, not a single individual player. I am not a Matthews fan or Marner fan etc, I am a LEAFS fan, I want this team to succeed, I don't give a shit about individual success. I want these guys to compete and play with heart, they are a disgrace to this franchise. There's no heart, no passion, no courage, no honor, no pride it is a f***ing joke and it's a slap in the face to all leaf fans. If you don't want to hold them accountable that's ok, but for the rest of us yeah we're f***ing pissed and we expect more. Especially when these assholes demanded 11M each.

We can handle losing, what we can't handle is the disrespect to this franchise, this jersey and the fan base by not giving a single f***. Marner talked the most about being a home town kid, it's a dream come true etc etc and he never plays with any effort. Play with some f***ing heart, give us something to be proud of. I am so proud of the Kessel/Phaneuf teams, they might not have been the best but you know what ? They f***ing competed every single night and I can respect that. But with this roster today ?? They can f*** off. Yes I am beyond pissed off.

Nylander had a bad game but overall having a great season, he gets a pass. The other 3 need to wake up or f*** off.

What is your plan for TOR/Dubas/The Core to go back in time and erase things? Are you sitting on the blueprints for a Time Machine?

They can only control this year. The past is just your ammunition and their weight. There's nothing they can change from last season. They just need to be better and win.

 

[AvroArrow]

What is your plan for TOR/Dubas/The Core to go back in time and erase things? Are you sitting on the blueprints for a Time Machine?

They can only control this year. The past is just your ammunition and their weight. There's nothing they can change from last season. They just to be better and win.

The plan is to get rid of these clowns, hire competent management and coaches. They have repeatedly failed and looked worse and worse every time.

What is your plan ? Try the same thing over and over and over and expect a different result ?

 

[saffronleaf]

Maybe we should ask the old man from Squid Game how to get out of this mess. It worked on the tug-0f-war game.

old man is basically spezza

 

[ottomaddox]

The plan is to get rid of these clowns, hire competent management and coaches. They have repeatedly failed and looked worse and worse every time.

What is your plan ? Try the same thing over and over and over and expect a different result ?

No.

The only plan is to play the season out.

 

[WildWolfdog]

Last year they finished 3 points out of first overall.

I think this multiple season thing people talk about is.....low rent. Playoffs? Sure.....but what was wrong with the regular season las year?

Special people here.....veeeeery special.

I'm a huge Shanny, Dubas & co. guy - and I really like(d) our core.

But what do you get for a "strong regular season"?

 

[Trapper]

What is your plan for TOR/Dubas/The Core to go back in time and erase things? Are you sitting on the blueprints for a Time Machine?

They can only control this year. The past is just your ammunition and their weight. There's nothing they can change from last season. They just need to be better and win.

The past?
Psychological scientists who study human behavior agree that past behavior is a useful marker for future behavior. ...

That’s the part I think people have the issue with. You will lose games. How do you lose them? Is it the same tired narrative an excuses? We are 6 games in and already talking about compete, drive, work ethic, etc. Does that not raise any red flags?

You would think coming off a Zamboni fiasco, blowing a 3-1 lead to not win a 5th 1st round series, having the GM bet his job on you a 2nd time would at the very least inspire starting on time and work ethic. Even in a loss. But no, we don’t even outwork an AHL team. This is the part that should cause shame and buyer beware.

 

[Racer88]

Insulting? They got points in half of those games played.

It goes back to minimum last years playoffs and the 2 years before that…….it’s not just this years 6 games

 

[ottomaddox]

We cannot be fair weather fans.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

The goalie tandem Dubas wished for is only 50% there. Mrazek should bring more than Hutch can muster

Imagine the shitshow if Campbell gets injured

 

[Clark4Ever]

I see nothing from this team that suggests they are different from the previous 5 years.

I do. We could very well be worse.

 

[Tak7]

If the OP wants perspective, let's provide it:

This fanbase has gone through sh*t recently. Tough playoff loses. Heartbreak. So many embarrassing moments that they are becoming too long to list (Aryes? Covid Canucks? 7-1 Pens? Montreal meltdown? etc).

It's not "6 games". It's 5-6 years. In the handful of games we've watched this season, we've seen nothing to suggest anything has changed from the past 5-6 years.

What you're experiencing, is a fanbase that has had it's faith & confidence in this project completely eroded. We don't believe they can win. We hope they do, because that's what fans do. But we know deep down they aren't properly constructed to be a contender, and are far too mentally fragile to ever get it done in the playoffs.

How is a fan supposed to reconcile that with the hope and optimism that was in this market back in 2016, when these exciting young guns were flying through and making a name for themselves? It's remarkable how fast this has gone from promise to pure torture. In just a few years, we went from believing to losing any sort of belief in them. I think that's the big thing the "it's only 6-7 games" crowd is missing completely - the rest of us know how this ends, and it's not with a cup.

Of course fans are going to be angry/upset/despondent/apathetic. We were sold a project we believed in, and now that project is on life support.

 

[Marmoset]

We cannot be fair weather fans.

I agree with a lot of your OP, but after 5-6 years of failure from this core it is not "fair weather" at this point. Fans have stuck by this core group for that long and have a right to be very unhappy with the current state of things. No organization should expect unconditional loyalty.

I don't think any major trades are happening until mid-season, if at all, because as you have said the season needs to play out. It's tough to make a major trade right now even if you want to, and I just can't see Dubas doing that in October or November after sticking by his core all summer. However, if the season goes downhill Dubas should 100% not be the person in charge by the time the deadline rolls around.

The only realistic option I can see for Dubas if the slide continues beyond a few more games is to remove Keefe. I don't think the coach is the main problem and I think this only happens if he feels like he has no choice because his head is on the chopping block. Other than that, as you say, the season plays out and hopefully things turn around.

 

[Clark4Ever]

Interesting point made earlier today on Overdrive. If you don't include last season's odd schedule and look at our overall record against the entire league since Babcock was replaced by Keefe, we are basically a middle of the pack team.

 

[Havoc]

Right, it's year 6 and they're still getting embarrassed by AHL-calibre teams. Can't even call these embarrassments learning experiences anymore because they never learn. Aside from Spezza, I truly don't believe anyone on this team cares.

It is pretty embarrassing hearing them talk about lessons and saying stuff like Carolina was their hardest match yet.

Um hello you're a contender into year 6. Stop talking about lessons like it's 2016 and just get the job done.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

we are basically a middle of the pack team.

pretty much

 

[BrannigansLaw]

If the OP wants perspective, let's provide it:

This fanbase has gone through sh*t recently. Tough playoff loses. Heartbreak. So many embarrassing moments that they are becoming too long to list (Aryes? Covid Canucks? 7-1 Pens? Montreal meltdown? etc).

It's not "6 games". It's 5-6 years. In the handful of games we've watched this season, we've seen nothing to suggest anything has changed from the past 6-7 years.

What you're experiencing, is a fanbase that has had it's faith & confidence in this project completely eroded. We don't believe they can win. We hope they do, because that's what fans want. But we know deep down they aren't properly constructed to be a contender, and are far too mentally fragile to ever get it done in the playoffs.

How is a fan supposed to reconcile that with the hope and optimism that was in this market back in 2016, when these exciting young guns were flying through and making a name for themselves? It's remarkable how fast this has gone from promise to pure torture. In just a few years, we went from believing to losing any sort of belief in them. I think that's the big thing the "it's only 6-7 games" crowd is missing completely - the rest of us know how this ends, and it's not with a cup.

Of course fans are going to be angry/upset/despondent/apathetic. We were sold a project we believed in, and now that project is on life support.

I might just copy and paste this every time someone uses the it’s early excuse. This sums it all up perfectly and it’s tiring explaining to the same people over and over again.

 

[Clark4Ever]

If the OP wants perspective, let's provide it:

This fanbase has gone through sh*t recently. Tough playoff loses. Heartbreak. So many embarrassing moments that they are becoming too long to list (Aryes? Covid Canucks? 7-1 Pens? Montreal meltdown? etc).

It's not "6 games". It's 5-6 years. In the handful of games we've watched this season, we've seen nothing to suggest anything has changed from the past 6-7 years.

What you're experiencing, is a fanbase that has had it's faith & confidence in this project completely eroded. We don't believe they can win. We hope they do, because that's what fans want. But we know deep down they aren't properly constructed to be a contender, and are far too mentally fragile to ever get it done in the playoffs.

How is a fan supposed to reconcile that with the hope and optimism that was in this market back in 2016, when these exciting young guns were flying through and making a name for themselves? It's remarkable how fast this has gone from promise to pure torture. In just a few years, we went from believing to losing any sort of belief in them. I think that's the big thing the "it's only 6-7 games" crowd is missing completely - the rest of us know how this ends, and it's not with a cup.

Of course fans are going to be angry/upset/despondent/apathetic. We were sold a project we believed in, and now that project is on life support.

Agreed, and very well said.

 

[ottomaddox]

If the OP wants perspective, let's provide it:

This fanbase has gone through sh*t recently. Tough playoff loses. Heartbreak. So many embarrassing moments that they are becoming too long to list (Aryes? Covid Canucks? 7-1 Pens? Montreal meltdown? etc).

It's not "6 games". It's 5-6 years. In the handful of games we've watched this season, we've seen nothing to suggest anything has changed from the past 5-6 years.

What you're experiencing, is a fanbase that has had it's faith & confidence in this project completely eroded. We don't believe they can win. We hope they do, because that's what fans do. But we know deep down they aren't properly constructed to be a contender, and are far too mentally fragile to ever get it done in the playoffs.

How is a fan supposed to reconcile that with the hope and optimism that was in this market back in 2016, when these exciting young guns were flying through and making a name for themselves? It's remarkable how fast this has gone from promise to pure torture. In just a few years, we went from believing to losing any sort of belief in them. I think that's the big thing the "it's only 6-7 games" crowd is missing completely - the rest of us know how this ends, and it's not with a cup.

Of course fans are going to be angry/upset/despondent/apathetic. We were sold a project we believed in, and now that project is on life support.

Well the bar is pretty low at this point. Let's see if TOR can make the playoffs and win a round. They are not out of the playoff race this early in the season.

 

[Tak7]

I might just copy and paste this every time someone uses the it’s early excuse. This sums it all up perfectly and it’s tiring explaining to the same people over and over again.

It really is.

I envy those people that can simply view things in a snapshot or an isolated bubble, completely ignoring obvious signs and truths - it must be so liberating toblissfully watch this team through that guise.

It's not reality, but it's hell of a lot more fun than knowing how this will play out (not well).

 

[Tak7]

Well the bar is pretty low at this point. Let's see if TOR can make the playoffs and win a round. They are not out of the playoff race this early in the season.

Which speaks volumes about where they are at, IMO.

This is year....8(?) of the Shanaplan ? They really should be much further down the road towards being a contender.