Tiny Heiny

[Jet]

Hang on...I'm condescending? I am not the one in this argument saying things like:

"Maybe you don't recall, but..."

"This is just another example of you not understanding how..."

"If only running an NHL organization were as simple as you seem to think it is..."

"You seem like a relatively intelligent person, and I think you can do better than that."

Do you really not see all that?

I'm not sure if you're just blind to it and you actually think what you're doing is arguing in good faith or if you're doing it on purpose.

Anyway, it's not condescending or hindsight to say Schmidt had been cap dumped on the Canucks, had a bad year, and then got cap dumped on Winnipeg and had another bad year. So I think in light of that, making Schmidt a lock was a dumb plan.

It's also not condescending or hindsight to say platooning a guy who had a couple of bad years wouldn't likely have any measurable impact on players waiving to come here. It certainly doesn't seem to have helped, in any event (and that's hindsight).

So I don't think Schmidt himself was the big factor. They had 2 defensemen who needed to clear waivers, and they chose to protect Stanley (who they have never even attempted to send through waivers since he became eligible)...like they always do. They didn't just misread Kova, they misread (and continue to misread) Stanley...and they've had a lot more than a couple of years to come to that erroneous conclusion.

I would say it's disingenuous to use 2 cap dumps when the second cap dump happened after the fact.

 

[Gm0ney]

I would say it's disingenuous to use 2 cap dumps when the second cap dump happened after the fact.

Not sure what you mean? After what fact? VGK dumped Schmidt on Vancouver for a 3rd. Schmidt had a bad year in Vancouver, and they then dumped him on the Jets for a 3rd. Then he had a bad year in Winnipeg, and it was the following season that they waived Kova.

What's likely disingenuous is to retcon a brutal decision by the Jets to waive Kova instead of Stanley with some laughable nonsense that "the right side of the defense was too strong because of Nate Schmidt..."

The Jets waived their only RD prospect of note at the time. The left side had Heinola, Stanley and Chisholm. The right had Kova and...? It was dumb at the time and it's turned out way worse with hindsight.

 

[DRW204]

This is just opinion that you're presenting as fact. It's your opinion that Schmidt was a lock for 3 RD - a guy coming off a pretty disappointing season and who was ultimately bought out.

And if they were really interested in developing Kova, rotating him with Schmidt would've been a pretty good way to do it.

Anyway, don't go sighing that you have to explain your pet theory again for thousandth time like it's settled science, because, for the thousandth time, no one's buying it.

i agree. this type of stuff really doesn't happen often with the Jets as far as these prospects playing at a high level elsewhere. but Kovacevic is an exception to that in my view as you've illustrated.

if folks want to operate under "the Jets know more about their own prospects than posters on here" then it has to work both ways. convincing & trading for 6m/year 3rd pair Schmidt, who they bought out and are still paying to not play here, while then-prospect Kovacevic immediately after being waived is playing at a p solid level in MTL was a miss.

& i did like schmdit's play here, but 6m for a 3rd pair D is kind of ridiculous in a cap league, and the team ultimately realized that as well.

like i said, it doesn't happen often for the Jets (which can be argued as both good or bad lol).

 

[WolfHouse]

i agree. this type of stuff really doesn't happen often with the Jets as far as these prospects playing at a high level elsewhere. but Kovacevic is an exception to that in my view as you've illustrated.

if folks want to operate under "the Jets know more about their own prospects than posters on here" then it has to work both ways. convincing & trading for 6m/year 3rd pair Schmidt, who they bought out and are still paying to not play here, while then-prospect Kovacevic immediately after being waived is playing at a p solid level in MTL was a miss.

& i did like schmdit's play here, but 6m for a 3rd pair D is kind of ridiculous in a cap league, and the team ultimately realized that as well.

like i said, it doesn't happen often for the Jets (which can be argued as both good or bad lol).

It was the capobianco signing that really was inexplicable... we put ourselves in a position to waive someone early for no reason really

Jets dont have a great track record of developing defencemen... especially not recognizing samberg sooner and leaving him behind stan when there was legit evidence he was better

 

[Buffdog]

i agree. this type of stuff really doesn't happen often with the Jets as far as these prospects playing at a high level elsewhere. but Kovacevic is an exception to that in my view as you've illustrated.

if folks want to operate under "the Jets know more about their own prospects than posters on here" then it has to work both ways. convincing & trading for 6m/year 3rd pair Schmidt, who they bought out and are still paying to not play here, while then-prospect Kovacevic immediately after being waived is playing at a p solid level in MTL was a miss.

& i did like schmdit's play here, but 6m for a 3rd pair D is kind of ridiculous in a cap league, and the team ultimately realized that as well.

like i said, it doesn't happen often for the Jets (which can be argued as both good or bad lol).

The Jets traded for Schmidt to play on the top pair with JoMo initially.

At the time, they were coming off a couple seasons of stop gap waiver wire pick ups after the Trouba trade and Buff retiring out of the blue

When Kovacevoc was waived, they finally had a d corps with 5 proven vets and a rookie (Samberg) on the bottom pairing

They elected to build that through trades and not through promoting Kova from within (which isnt unreasonable cpnsodering that he had one season of AHL experience and 4 NHL games at the time). Montreal picked him up, which is what the waiver wire is designed for - letting a young player with a blocked path to the NHL have a chance on a different team. Montreal was in full tank mode, so they were in a position to play him where the Jets weren't

I think people over react about the whole thing, especially when they feel the need to drag Stanley into the conversation when he was a non-factor

 

[Crocket]

Stanley is too slow and gets awful penalties in the playoffs. He cost us game 3 last year and a few pp goals for the AVS.

Heinola was screwed by that ankle injury and the occuring infection. Horrible luck.

 

[DRW204]

It was the capobianco signing that really was inexplicable... we put ourselves in a position to waive someone early for no reason really

Jets dont have a great track record of developing defencemen... especially not recognizing samberg sooner and leaving him behind stan when there was legit evidence he was better

Maybe? Capo was better than Stanley and Heinola in his gp here.
But it does stem at least indirectly with Logan Stanley. The 21-22 season and the year prior, they had players like Beaulieu, Poolman and Schmidt playing top pair, while Demelo was pigeonholed to baby sit Stanley. Foregoing a possible solid top pair as they have been since, just to preserve Stanley.

Many thought Demelo was probably the best fit next to Morrissey at the time, and ultimately by ~mid way of 21-22 was top pair, while Schmidt went bottom pair. So not even a full season into being a Jet they were paying Schmidt 6m to play third pair next to Stanley.

 

[blueandgoldguy]

Bad asset management by the Chevy and the Jets. Heinola's value has now whittled down to a late round draft pick at best. As little as a year and a half ago he probably is worth a second and maybe another late pick.