Time to stop forcing backup goalies to go in cold?

[J15]

I was thinking about this and it kind of seems bizarre. When a starting goalie get's injured the backup is allowed to warm up but if the starter is pulled for any other reason the backup has to go in cold. As someone who is studying kinesiology it really is a stupid policy when you think about it. The chance of injury is significantly higher for goalies that haven't warmed up.

Allowing goalies to warmup doesn't so much give them an advantage in terms of how they'll play, it gives them a better chance of staying healthy. At the crux of it, the league is basically saying to coaches that they have to weigh the option of leaving in the starter vs the health risk they'd be putting their back up in. And when you spell it put like that it's absolutely ludicrous.

Does the NHL need to wait until someone tears a groin and misses a season before they'll do anything? Do they not care as much because it usually effects backups and not the superstar goalies? Because if the discussion ever erupts, the policy is going to look pretty ridiculous in hindsight IMO.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Coaches were using this as an extra timeout, which is why they stopped allowing a warm up.

 

[J15]

Coaches were using this as an extra timeout, which is why they stopped allowing a warm up.

Does that really justify potentially jeopardizing a player's health? There are a million ways to get around it. Charge a timeout if you want to change goalies. If you don't have a timeout you can't change goalies. Problem solved?

 

[Gee Wally]

Coaches were using this as an extra timeout, which is why they stopped allowing a warm up.

Exactly. It was an incredibly abused tactic back in the day. Hence the current rules.

 

[Gee Wally]

Does that really justify potentially jeopardizing a player's health? There are a million ways to get around it. Charge a timeout if you want to change goalies. If you don't have a timeout you can't change goalies. Problem solved?

thats not feasible if you think it through. Regardless of having a time out or not goalies can get hurt / sick and need to be changed.


Question for you .....look up how long current rule has been in effect and how many times relief goalie has been then injured due to no warm ups as in your scenario.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

I get what the OP is saying, but they do have a gameday skate and a 20 minute warmup, so it's not like they've been sitting around for days when they get thrown in halfway through a game.

 

[J15]

thats not feasible if you think it through. Regardless of having a time out or not goalies can get hurt / sick and need to be changed.


Question for you .....look up how long current rule has been in effect and how many times relief goalie has been then injured due to no warm ups as in your scenario.

Under current rules if your goalie gets injured the backup is already allowed to warm up. I'm saying you're not allowed to make a change for non-injury related reasons if you don't have a timeout.

The number of players that have actually been hurt isn't very relevant. Any doctor/trainer will tell you it's a significantly increased risk going in cold. Especially for the goalie where their job is to literally stretch and sprawl around the crease. If it were to happen and some goalie sued the NHL what would the defence be? It was to avoid coaches from gaining a timeout? The NHL should be proactive for once. Although if someone else wanted to look up the numbers, I'd be curious as well.

 

[Gee Wally]

I get what the OP is saying, but they do have a gameday skate and a 20 minute warmup, so it's not like they've been sitting around for days when they get thrown in halfway through a game.

Oh I do too in regard to the question. Perfectly understand it.

But having lived through decades of the previous rule (with a warmup) it turns into a circus and as far as I recall I dont remember there ever being an injury because of the 'newer' rule. If there was it is my guess very rare. For the reasons you state.

No different than (and as much as I hate the new rule) shooting the puck over the glass.

There were goalies so good at it they'd practice it. Like the guy in my avatar.

 

[Pancakes]

Under current rules if your goalie gets injured the backup is already allowed to warm up. I'm saying you're not allowed to make a change for non-injury related reasons if you don't have a timeout.

The number of players that have actually been hurt isn't very relevant. Any doctor/trainer will tell you it's a significantly increased risk going in cold. Especially for the goalie where their job is to literally stretch and sprawl around the crease. If it were to happen and some goalie sued the NHL what would the defence be? It was to avoid coaches from gaining a timeout? The NHL should be proactive for once. Although if someone else wanted to look up the numbers, I'd be curious as well.

There have been studies done that show that stretching/warming up doesn't necessarily result in improved performance or lessen injury risk.

I don't think this is an issue at all.

 

[Jacob]

These are professional athletes. There's a morning skate, a pre-game skate, and they can limber up on the bench if they like or during commercial breaks. They'll be fine.

 

[Anglesmith]

If I remember correctly, there's some coach or other guy in the sport who has long advocated for a kind of "bullpen" like thing for goalies. Can't remember his name.

 

[rajuabju]

thats not feasible if you think it through. Regardless of having a time out or not goalies can get hurt / sick and need to be changed.


Question for you .....look up how long current rule has been in effect and how many times relief goalie has been then injured due to no warm ups as in your scenario.

This.

Sounds like we're trying to solve a problem that doesnt really exist?

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Does that really justify potentially jeopardizing a player's health? There are a million ways to get around it. Charge a timeout if you want to change goalies. If you don't have a timeout you can't change goalies. Problem solved?

A coach is allowed to take his TO if he wants to give his goalie more time.

You're trying to break something that has already been fixed.

 

[Stuzchuk]

Coaches were using this as an extra timeout, which is why they stopped allowing a warm up.

THIS but not all fans are old enough for that (or simply know about it)

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Oh I do too in regard to the question. Perfectly understand it.

But having lived through decades of the previous rule (with a warmup) it turns into a circus and as far as I recall I dont remember there ever being an injury because of the 'newer' rule. If there was it is my guess very rare. For the reasons you state.

No different than (and as much as I hate the new rule) shooting the puck over the glass.

There were goalies so good at it they'd practice it. Like the guy in my avatar.

This.

Sounds like we're trying to solve a problem that doesnt really exist?

A coach is allowed to take his TO if he wants to give his goalie more time.

You're trying to break something that has already been fixed.

Fourthed.

This is trying to solve a non-existent problem. It's a shame that coaches abused the old system, but they did, and if things are relaxed to where they used to be they'd abuse it again.

 

[Rangediddy]

So using your Kinesiology studies, how long does a body stay 'warm' after warming up? Serious question, would be good to know how long the muscles stay warm after a stretch.

These guys warm up in the morning skate, probably have an afternoon stretch, then a pregame stretch, then an on ice warm up, it's probably within 2 hours that they'd be put into game action off the bench, plus they may even be stretching between periods in the locker room... I'm not sure how 'cold' they would be?

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Coachers are exploiting the current rule:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-p...e-hack-that-annoys-his-goalies-155322461.html

 

[Gee Wally]

THIS but not all fans are old enough for that (or simply know about it)

hey there...careful now.

 

[PensBandwagonerNo272*]

Meh. If it were much of an issue I think the union would bring it up. It's their responsibility to stretch and be ready pre-game / during intermissions. A quick skate and stopping a few shots is enough to literally warm them up, which is all they need.

Ask weight lifters, etc, the "warm up" is overrated and overstated a lot of the time.

 

[MBTendy]

I find this silly. Like a poster said, they're professional athletes, they have morning skates, warmup skates, and most of them stretch it out once they get in the crease, even if it's for a brief time.

Not like they've been sitting down for hours. And I am almost certain the backups stretch in the locker room during intermission

 

[Jumptheshark]

Coaches were using this as an extra timeout, which is why they stopped allowing a warm up.

back in the 80's to slow down a game--coaches would switch goalies a few times in a period--and everytime it happened tje goalie got a 5 minute warm up

not sure if it was the hawks against the oilers--to try and through the oilers off their game the coach switched the goalie something like twice a period for that game (not sure if it was the hawks or jets) and everytime he switch goalie they got warm up time

 

[Gee Wally]

back in the 80's to slow down a game--coaches would switch goalies a few times in a period--and everytime it happened tje goalie got a 5 minute warm up

not sure if it was the hawks against the oilers--to try and through the oilers off their game the coach switched the goalie something like twice a period for that game (not sure if it was the hawks or jets) and everytime he switch goalie they got warm up time

Yup.
It would be employed if a team was on a long penalty kill. Give the PKers a breather.
Also if a player (skater) was banged up and needed personal or equipment repair.

It had a lot of 'uses'.

 

[Jumptheshark]

hey there...careful now.

G-man u and eye r old

 

[Gee Wally]

G-man u and eye r old

yeah.....it really has started to hit me that I've been on this site (1997) longer than some posters have been alive.

Crazy.

 

[Pyrophorus]

What if they warmed up (no shots) with their mask off

Could that too, be abused?