Recalled/Assigned: Tim Gettinger to Hartford, Boo Nieves to NYR

[bernmeister]

Don't care about that draft anymore and the hindsight is so far in the rear view mirror it seems ludicrous to even be discussing it. In the here and now, this guy is NOT an NHL forward and should never be seen in a New York jersey again if at all possible. I'm not high on Gettinger or much of anyone else in HFD right now, but none of them have blown a significant number of chances to show something in the bigs and Nieves has. Turn the page.

This is the great lie.
Nieves has OTHERWISE been given every full and fair chance. But there is one critical and overriding factor: he has always been forced to play with srubs like McLeod, who are a black hole offensively.

What I asked is reasonable, admit it or not.
Presume my equation
driver of play - facilitator - finisher (scorer)
would work.
Figure Nieves as the facilitator.
Use the correct other Ws in that equation as I've designated.
give a wk or so of off ice practice to get familiarity.

then try for a decent period 1-2 wks.

THEN by all means be objectively critical.
Zib has evolved, he will likely have good results
But while you will find only a modest increase in scoring for him [his positive +/- will be even further amplified], my point remains you will find you are getting Kreider going.

It is dishonest to represent Nieves has been given a fair chance when you won't put the proper complementary pieces next to him.

And again, this is not for Nieves' benefit, tho as a NYR fan one should want what is in the overall benefit of the team, and that includes upgrading Nieves game. This is about solving Kreider with a relatively permanent solution

 

[bernmeister]

So Boo was sent down, McKegg is up.

Rangers seem to do better when Boo is here and playing. That is not a knock on McKegg but some others.

I can only hope that they eventually pare down to a core min, and we get to try this experiment.

 

[Vitto79]

So Boo was sent down, McKegg is up.

Rangers seem to do better when Boo is here and playing. That is not a knock on McKegg but some others.

I can only hope that they eventually pare down to a core min, and we get to try this experiment.

Are you gonna follow Nieves when he’s gone ? ITS gonna happen soon

 

[bernmeister]

Saluting @nyr2k2 on multiple eloquent posts.

btw.
Obviously, the league missed the boat on Parayko.
But for what he was selected, his +/- is very strong, esp given ZERO PP opportunity and, more importantly, little W scoring support.

Howden, Andersson and others have gotten opportunity b'c they are 1sts.
Other guys had to be showcased.

Enuf.
Do the experiment, and we will see if I am right.

 

[Harbour Dog]

I was wondering how the hell this thread hadn't fizzled out yet. Then I checked it.

If I ever see somebody accusing bern of not being consistent, I will lose my shit.

 

[bernmeister]

Are you gonna follow Nieves when he’s gone ? ITS gonna happen soon

Nieves is not an ideal complement to everyone and vice versa.
If he goes, or Kreider goes, the experiment is over.

However, I remain hopeful tho not overly optimistic that GMJG will unload some excess, whether they are productive or not, and with the added cap recovered, we will get Kreider extended now at 6.2 x5. At that pt, selling high on Buch and Strome, and a few more deals, we may at last be in a position to try my experiment. Rangers have zero to lose by trying.

Also, what is SURELY coming is increases to Kreider and [tho not immediately] Zib. That is really not in dispute.
IF we were to do my experiment and it worked, having Boo who is now under 1m and would be a cheap 1ish would help w/pressure vs our salary cap.

 

[motopanekeku]

This is the great lie.
Nieves has OTHERWISE been given every full and fair chance. But there is one critical and overriding factor: he has always been forced to play with srubs like McLeod, who are a black hole offensively.

What I asked is reasonable, admit it or not.
Presume my equation
driver of play - facilitator - finisher (scorer)
would work.
Figure Nieves as the facilitator.
Use the correct other Ws in that equation as I've designated.
give a wk or so of off ice practice to get familiarity.

then try for a decent period 1-2 wks.

THEN by all means be objectively critical.
Zib has evolved, he will likely have good results
But while you will find only a modest increase in scoring for him [his positive +/- will be even further amplified], my point remains you will find you are getting Kreider going.

It is dishonest to represent Nieves has been given a fair chance when you won't put the proper complementary pieces next to him.

And again, this is not for Nieves' benefit, tho as a NYR fan one should want what is in the overall benefit of the team, and that includes upgrading Nieves game. This is about solving Kreider with a relatively permanent solution

No, dude. Just no.

We will not "presume your equation will work".

You are not going to "get Kreider going" by inserting Nieves and Gettinger into the lineup. I'm happy that things work out so nicely for you in your brain but maybe you should keep it there.

Or at least stop trying to force people to "admit" that you are being "reasonable" when the reasonable thing would be to admit you are forcing a dead issue.

It's dead. Nieves killed it himself by getting sent down. I wish him the best career and I hope he somehow comes back to be our first line center and savior for years.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

I love that the only stat you can argue for Nieves (because he's bad) is plus minus. And his is +2 in the NHL and even in the AHL. Amazing.

 

[bernmeister]

No, dude. Just no.

We will not "presume your equation will work".

You are not going to "get Kreider going" by inserting Nieves and Gettinger into the lineup. I'm happy that things work out so nicely for you in your brain but maybe you should keep it there.

Or at least stop trying to force people to "admit" that you are being "reasonable" when the reasonable thing would be to admit you are forcing a dead issue.

It's dead. Nieves killed it himself by getting sent down. I wish him the best career and I hope he somehow comes back to be our first line center and savior for years.

not just no.
just effin yes.

You gloss over a core pt, which is that Nieves has never been given adequate offensive Ws, let alone specifically Kreider + Zib like I asked for.

I will not bend, buckle and break on this no matter how much pressure is attempted.
I am a man of my word, and conscience.
if/when Boo has adequate time w/Kreider + for experiment, I will accept those conclusions good or bad.
As should everyone else.

 

[bernmeister]

I was wondering how the hell this thread hadn't fizzled out yet. Then I checked it.

If I ever see somebody accusing bern of not being consistent, I will lose my ****.

Life imitates art.

Horton hears a who.

lol

 

[motopanekeku]

not just no.
just effin yes.

You gloss over a core pt, which is that Nieves has never been given adequate offensive Ws, let alone specifically Kreider + Zib like I asked for.

I will not bend, buckle and break on this no matter how much pressure is attempted.
I am a man of my word, and conscience.
if/when Boo has adequate time w/Kreider + for experiment, I will accept those conclusions good or bad.
As should everyone else.

So this is not a discussion board for you then.

It's a venue for you to show off your obstinance. Ok then.

You clearly cannot receive information, only vomit absurd proposals.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

You clearly cannot receive information, only vomit absurd proposals.

100% accurate.

Sprite for 7up.

IF IF IF IF IF IF IF...

Respectfully Agree to disagree.

 

[eco's bones]

not just no.
just effin yes.

You gloss over a core pt, which is that Nieves has never been given adequate offensive Ws, let alone specifically Kreider + Zib like I asked for.

I will not bend, buckle and break on this no matter how much pressure is attempted.
I am a man of my word, and conscience.
if/when Boo has adequate time w/Kreider + for experiment, I will accept those conclusions good or bad.
As should everyone else.

This may be the closest Bern has ever come to swearing in public.

 

[eco's bones]

Nieves is an alright option as a 4th liner. I think he's a decent player when given that job description. Very good size and strength. Defensively responsible. He really skates very very well. His offensive instincts are not very good. Truth is he's a better NHL player than Fogarty and it's pretty much because of the skating and Fogarty's turned out to be a better AHL player. Might seem contradictory but it's true. Anyway we've been through this argument with Bern at least a thousand times. Bern is a nice guy but he's stubborn as f*** and he ain't going to give up until the day that Nieves is gone.

 

[bernmeister]

So this is not a discussion board for you then.
It's a venue for you to show off your obstinance. Ok then.
You clearly cannot receive information, only vomit absurd proposals.

100% accurate.
Sprite for 7up.
IF IF IF IF IF IF IF...
Respectfully Agree to disagree.

called out for bx x 2
A discussion board means discussion = 2 or more talking.
(Although posters are at liberty to list their individual comment outside of discussion as well.)

Clearly opinions can differ, and that is fine.
But facts are facts and while someone is entitled to their own opinion, they are not entitled to their own set of facts.

It is factually true Nieves did not get the same opportunity as, e.g., first rounders Andersson or Howden, who have had shifts w/likes of Zib, Kreider, et al. That is not an opinion.

It is not obstinate to insist contrarians such as yourselves admit to such fact.

I will continue to press this pt until it is reversed.

When you want to have a real conversation, truthful of the facts, do feel free to participate.

In the meantime, tell it like it IS let your conscience be your guide.

 

[bernmeister]

This may be the closest Bern has ever come to swearing in public.

Usually no, vulgarity in regular use, other considerations aside, is not effective.
No, I've dropped reference to the F bomb if warranted
Like Gordon Ramsey lite. Use if nec to make the pt.
Not otherwise.

I draw the line at profanity.

 

[egelband]

This is the great lie.
Nieves has OTHERWISE been given every full and fair chance. But there is one critical and overriding factor: he has always been forced to play with srubs like McLeod, who are a black hole offensively.

What I asked is reasonable, admit it or not.
Presume my equation
driver of play - facilitator - finisher (scorer)
would work.
Figure Nieves as the facilitator.
Use the correct other Ws in that equation as I've designated.
give a wk or so of off ice practice to get familiarity.

then try for a decent period 1-2 wks.

THEN by all means be objectively critical.
Zib has evolved, he will likely have good results
But while you will find only a modest increase in scoring for him [his positive +/- will be even further amplified], my point remains you will find you are getting Kreider going.

It is dishonest to represent Nieves has been given a fair chance when you won't put the proper complementary pieces next to him.

And again, this is not for Nieves' benefit, tho as a NYR fan one should want what is in the overall benefit of the team, and that includes upgrading Nieves game. This is about solving Kreider with a relatively permanent solution

I feel the same way about Lettieri that you do about Nieves. Both of these guys may be better suited to top nine roles or at least playing with offensive-minded players. But seems it’s just not in the cards for either.

 

[bernmeister]

Nieves is an alright option as a 4th liner. I think he's a decent player when given that job description. Very good size and strength. Defensively responsible. He really skates very very well. His offensive instincts are not very good. Truth is he's a better NHL player than Fogarty and it's pretty much because of the skating and Fogarty's turned out to be a better AHL player. Might seem contradictory but it's true. Anyway we've been through this argument with Bern at least a thousand times. Bern is a nice guy but he's stubborn as **** and he ain't going to give up until the day that Nieves is gone.

All of this is spot on.
Never be afraid to challenge the establishment to uphold the truth.
Rangers should just give him the same chance and do the experiment.
That's all it will take.

 

[motopanekeku]

I feel the same way about Lettieri that you do about Nieves. Both of these guys may be better suited to top nine roles or at least playing with offensive-minded players. But seems it’s just not in the cards for either.

At least Lettieri can shoot the puck

 

[bernmeister]

I feel the same way about Lettieri that you do about Nieves. Both of these guys may be better suited to top nine roles or at least playing with offensive-minded players. But seems it’s just not in the cards for either.

Tell it like it is, let your conscience be your guide.

But where do you think Lettieri fits in my equation,
driver of play - facilitator - finisher/scorer

And based on that, where and with whom should he play?
Or do you think there is some other approach that applies, particularly as to Let.?

Remember, I have not said Nieves will magically turn into a scoring dynamo, or that he will have chemistry with anyone and everyone. I've said Nieves points as a match to unlock Kreider with the correct RW.

Look forward to hearing what you think.
Which, competition of ideas, should be the standard we all want to promote.

 

[motopanekeku]

called out for bx x 2
A discussion board means discussion = 2 or more talking.
(Although posters are at liberty to list their individual comment outside of discussion as well.)

Clearly opinions can differ, and that is fine.
But facts are facts and while someone is entitled to their own opinion, they are not entitled to their own set of facts.

It is factually true Nieves did not get the same opportunity as, e.g., first rounders Andersson or Howden, who have had shifts w/likes of Zib, Kreider, et al. That is not an opinion.

It is not obstinate to insist contrarians such as yourselves admit to such fact.

I will continue to press this pt until it is reversed.

When you want to have a real conversation, truthful of the facts, do feel free to participate.

In the meantime, tell it like it IS let your conscience be your guide.

Disagreeing with your silly rants does not make me a contrarian. That label is reserved for people who don't listen to reason.

You give me a real reason why Nieves should be tried out between Kreider and Zib.

And don't just say "why not" which is your whole argument.

And don't tell me Nieves' +2 makes him a good player.

You, like Nieves, need to show that what you're saying is feasible because until now neither of you have.

Is there an HFboards AHL equivalent? Nieves just got sent down dude. Cuz he sucks.

 

[motopanekeku]

Tell it like it is, let your conscience be your guide.

But where do you think Lettieri fits in my equation,
driver of play - facilitator - finisher/scorer

And based on that, where and with whom should he play?
Or do you think there is some other approach that applies, particularly as to Let.?

Remember, I have not said Nieves will magically turn into a scoring dynamo, or that he will have chemistry with anyone and everyone. I've said Nieves points as a match to unlock Kreider with the correct RW.

Look forward to hearing what you think.
Which, competition of ideas, should be the standard we all want to promote.

We all want to magically unlock Kreider somehow. My feeling is he will turn it on for a playoff team.

A team with Nieves as 1c is not a playoff team.

 

[egelband]

Tell it like it is, let your conscience be your guide.

But where do you think Lettieri fits in my equation,
driver of play - facilitator - finisher/scorer

And based on that, where and with whom should he play?
Or do you think there is some other approach that applies, particularly as to Let.?

Remember, I have not said Nieves will magically turn into a scoring dynamo, or that he will have chemistry with anyone and everyone. I've said Nieves points as a match to unlock Kreider with the correct RW.

Look forward to hearing what you think.
Which, competition of ideas, should be the standard we all want to promote.

I’ve discussed it before. I just think Lettieri is an excellent shooter off the pass and would score were he on a top line. A guy like Pirri was similar but I’d say Lettieri brings more to the table. Remember PA Parenteau. Kind of similar. Guy did pretty well in the NHL in a top six role but otherwise, totally useless. I definitely don’t think Lettieri is suited for the fourth line, though.

 

[bernmeister]

Disagreeing with your silly rants does not make me a contrarian. That label is reserved for people who don't listen to reason.

You give me a real reason why Nieves should be tried out between Kreider and Zib.

And don't just say "why not" which is your whole argument.

And don't tell me Nieves' +2 makes him a good player.

You, like Nieves, need to show that what you're saying is feasible because until now neither of you have.

Is there an HFboards AHL equivalent? Nieves just got sent down dude. Cuz he sucks.

You ARE a contrarian for failing to acknowledge Nieves has not been given quality W linemates, let alone the Kreider Zib combo I specified.

As to that, Nieves passing ability is underrated. He is big, fast, w/long reach; defensively responsible. On paper he is EXACTLY the kind of guy who could be a facilitator helping Kreider, who is driving the play. Zib then enters the picture. Kreider-Zib is a proven commodity. The speed coupled with superior skating by all 3 helps create open opportunities and double teams on Kreider or Zib. Nieves can quickly get the puck to his other linemate not double teamed, or, if not with a decently open shot, feed off to backliner. The fact that everyone can pinch a bit and know Nieves will cover their ass defensively is another plus.

You don't want to talk +/-, but despite never playing PP or w/any real offense, he does well and the team benefits.

If you want more, stand down and give the man the tools necessary to do the job. No more, no less.

Of course, that would mean demonstrating an open mind to my experiment.

 

[motopanekeku]

You ARE a contrarian for failing to acknowledge Nieves has not been given quality W linemates, let alone the Kreider Zib combo I specified.

As to that, Nieves passing ability is underrated. He is big, fast, w/long reach; defensively responsible. On paper he is EXACTLY the kind of guy who could be a facilitator helping Kreider, who is driving the play. Zib then enters the picture. Kreider-Zib is a proven commodity. The speed coupled with superior skating by all 3 helps create open opportunities and double teams on Kreider or Zib. Nieves can quickly get the puck to his other linemate not double teamed, or, if not with a decently open shot, feed off to backliner. The fact that everyone can pinch a bit and know Nieves will cover their ass defensively is another plus.

You don't want to talk +/-, but despite never playing PP or w/any real offense, he does well and the team benefits.

If you want more, stand down and give the man the tools necessary to do the job. No more, no less.

Of course, that would mean demonstrating an open mind to my experiment.

I just don't think the team is in a place to be throwing crap against the wall just to hope it sticks. Not ahead of Zib, Chytl, Strome or even Howden.

My mind is not closed but I firmly believe that if you asked Quinn himself why he hasn't put Nieves as a "pivot" between Kreider and Zib he would look at you funny and tell you exactly why.

And you would refute him with your formulae and jargon.

And he would probably walk away.

And you would still feel justified even though he can give you better reasons than all of us.

So whatever. I guess you win. You think so far outside the box that proving you wrong is impossible. One must "stand down" from the ACTUAL facts and submit to the wiles of your overactive imagination.