Thoughts on Chatfield's Takedown Yesterday?

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

Major Judd Apatow "Will Smith could've killed Chris Rock" energy throughout this thread.

 

[Nemesis Prime]

Man, canes fans really are pulling all the stops to justify this

all up in their feefees to think rationally.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Anything can happen in theory.

What are the odds higher though; fighting someone, koing them and having their head hit the ice or judo throwing a helmetless player towards the ice?

Do you want to bring back hits to the head because players get injured off of regular hits, so it's all the same anyways.

Don't disagree with you, just responding to your claim that the worst that can happen in a fight is a concussion which isn't true.

 

[Fatass]

Wonder if the Caps keep Wilson on the bench while Stankoven is on the ice next game as to not get embarrassed physically again.

Nice to see these two clubs meet up in the playoffs. Lots of hatred makes for good hockey. Which players rise up and enjoy the “hard nosed” play and which ones disappear?

 

[NVious]

Don't disagree with you, just responding to your claim that the worst that can happen in a fight is a concussion which isn't true.

It's practically true, nobody has ever died in the tens of thousands of fights in the NHL, how many judo throws on a helmetless player have been done?

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

It's practically true, nobody has ever died in the tens of thousands of fights in the NHL, how many judo throws on a helmetless player have been done?

No one’s died from it either

 

[NVious]

No one’s died from it either

So if Wilson did that to Aho you'd have no problem with it?

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

So if Wilson did that to Aho you'd have no problem with it?

I didn’t say that I’m fine with the play. In fact one of the very first posts in this thread is me saying that Chatfield shouldn’t have done it and if he sat for a game or two I’d be fine with it.

I don’t think the intent was for a judo throw at all but you have to be responsible for your actions.

 

[Miller Time]

Canes fan here and didn't like it. You have to have more awareness considering they are both without helmets. Yes, it's a fight and injury and damage can happen but that's a reckless play. It's definitely a weird one but I wouldn't have an issue with 2 games or something just to set a precedent that this kind of move isn't cool in hockey.

How is that any more "reckless" than swinging fists wildly at an opponent's head?

 

[Miller Time]

Do the pro fighting people realize if that guy's head had splattered on the ice after the judo takedown and he's removed from the ice in a body bag that's the end of fighting forever?

Sad that this is what it will take... But it is inevitable.

 

[rielledup]

Don't like it but I don't see how you can start policing takedowns and decide where to draw the line on an ok takedown vs a not ok takedown.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

How is that any more "reckless" than swinging fists wildly at an opponent's head?

Because slamming someone to the ice who’s not wearing a helmet has a higher probability of something terrible happening as @NVious mentioned

 

[Miller Time]

Because slamming someone to the ice who’s not wearing a helmet has a higher probability of something terrible happening as @NVious mentioned

Meh. Both are incredibly reckless... And players regularly get thrown to the ice during a fight. Just as some punches do more damage than others, some takedowns are worse than others. Intent is not the difference.

 

[tarheelhockey]

It's practically true, nobody has ever died in the tens of thousands of fights in the NHL, how many judo throws on a helmetless player have been done?

Despite the hysterics from fans, the reality is that helmetless players and fighting co-existed for some 70 years in the NHL, and the last 20 involved heavy-duty hitting and designated goons.

Many of those fights were far more violent than what we’re used to seeing, and involved players toppling to the ice helmetless on a regular basis:



The threat of serious injury or death in that environment is ever-present. One NHL player actually did die — Bill Masterton, on a hard hit that bounced his head off the ice. That’s the nature of violent action on ice. It puts the NHL in a tough spot, trying to ensure safety while also trying to preserve the violence that’s been inherent in the game since Day One.

What I care about most is intent. Intentionally trying to injure an opponent is ****ed up. I don’t think Chatfield set out to do that when he yanked on McMichael’s jersey. Only one person knows for sure, but the assumption of injurious intent is not consistent with his history as a player, his personality, or what we see in the video upon a complete review. It was a lot more like the guys in the video above, doing whatever they could to take each other down with little consideration for the worst-case scenario.

 

[HTFN]

Despite the hysterics from fans, the reality is that helmetless players and fighting co-existed for some 70 years in the NHL, and the last 20 involved heavy-duty hitting and designated goons.

Many of those fights were far more violent than what we’re used to seeing, and involved players toppling to the ice helmetless on a regular basis:



The threat of serious injury or death in that environment is ever-present. One NHL player actually did die — Bill Masterton, on a hard hit that bounced his head off the ice. That’s the nature of violent action on ice. It puts the NHL in a tough spot, trying to ensure safety while also trying to preserve the violence that’s been inherent in the game since Day One.

What I care about most is intent. Intentionally trying to injure an opponent is ****ed up. I don’t think Chatfield set out to do that when he yanked on McMichael’s jersey. Only one person knows for sure, but the assumption of injurious intent is not consistent with his history as a player, his personality, or what we see in the video upon a complete review. It was a lot more like the guys in the video above, doing whatever they could to take each other down with little consideration for the worst-case scenario.

I think that's absolute bullshit clouded by homerism.

A fair amount of former NHL fighters seem to agree that this was extra and unnecessary, and very likely intentional from his perspective (without casting aspersions as to whether or not he intended to injure someone in that moment) because it's outrageously dangerous even in the context of a hockey fight. You keep saying that it's not because he didn't have a foot set while he was spinning him around, but that's also how skating physics works so...

At a certain point it becomes less about individualistic intent and more about forecasting outcomes, and there's a reason that leg tackling is not a fundamental part of NHL fights. I don't mind giving the benefit of the doubt that Chatfield is a good dude who didn't go into that game wanting to hurt anybody.

I can also say that what he did was so much more dangerous than anything else that somebody needs to talk to him, even a veteran on his own team, and say that accident or not that's something he shouldn't even think about skewing towards again. Tie the guy up. Do anything else. Tackle him if he's that off balance.

Don't throw the upper body back first into the ice, period.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I think that's absolute bullshit clouded by homerism

Then it’s a good thing a Caps fan is on the scene to give a non-homer take.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Is that genuinely the best you can do?

Sorry, you led with “that’s absolute bullshit clouded by homerism” and expected a serious reply in return?

 

[NoVaCapsFan]

Maybe this thread has run its course? No discipline for Chatfield, McMichael is better than fine (he looked GREAT tonite, I was there), and the teams will settle it (or not) on April 10. I hope our two clubs meet in Round 2, should be epic.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Maybe this thread has run its course? No discipline for Chatfield, McMichael is better than fine (he looked GREAT tonite, I was there), and the teams will settle it (or not) on April 10. I hope our two clubs meet in Round 2, should be epic.

With any luck, these will go down as games 1 and 2.

 

[HTFN]

Sorry, you led with “that’s absolute bullshit clouded by homerism” and expected a polite reply in return?

Okay, you've had your barb, care to reply to any of the body of that post as prompted a second time? You think he didn't yank him around in a way that suggested intent, former NHL pros have already weighed in saying otherwise.

You've been clowning around here since page one, I'm sorry if you didn't love the way your post was framed but f*** polite, you aren't even standing up for your cause in favor of more deflection just like this because you know this is a bullshit move.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Okay, you've had your barb, care to reply to any of the body of that post as prompted a second time? You think he didn't yank him around in a way that suggested intent, former NHL pros have already weighed in saying otherwise.

You've been clowning around here since page one, I'm sorry if you didn't love the way your post was framed but f*** polite, you aren't even standing up for your cause in favor of more deflection just like this because you know this is a bullshit move.

Again — with the tone you’re taking, how much respect do you think I actually owe these comments?

I’ve said my piece. Refer to my comments upthread.

 

[HTFN]

Again — with the tone you’re taking, how much respect do you think I actually owe these comments?

I’ve said my piece. Refer to my comments upthread.

The one where you invoke Bill Masterson's dying after smacking his head off the ice and then downplay how wildly close this exact thing is to incurring the same outcome, and then talk about how intent is more important and Chatfield's a good guy who would never try to do that even though NHL players are out here on twitter saying it's way unnecessary?

New tone: that's f***ing garbage and I think you know it deep down.

 

[tarheelhockey]

The one where you invoke Bill Masterson's dying after smacking his head off the ice
and then downplay how wildly close this exact thing is to incurring the same outcome,

I didn’t downplay anything. I acknowledged it head-on as an inherent risk in the sport.

and then talk about how intent is more important and Chatfield's a good guy who would never try to do that even though NHL players are out here on twitter saying it's way unnecessary?

Breaking news: a lot of NHL players are ****ing stupid. I don’t care what John Scott has to say about this.

New tone: that's f***ing garbage and I think you know it deep down.

No, that’s the same tone which I didn’t take seriously in the first place. Sorry about your thin skin.

 

[HTFN]

I didn’t downplay anything. I acknowledged it head-on as an inherent risk in the sport.




Breaking news: a lot of NHL players are ****ing stupid. I don’t care what John Scott has to say about this.



No, that’s the same tone which I didn’t take seriously in the first place. Sorry about your thin skin.

Inherent risk of the sport that most heavyweights, wait for it... guard against and lower opponents to the ground when necessary. Knocked out opponents don't get dropped, ice is f***ing dangerous.

You can shake off all the experienced testimony you want, it only makes you sound like somebody more dedicated to being "right" than thinking about the reality of this situation. If there is still a "code" for fighters, Chatfield broke it and put his opponent in a season/career/life threatening position to win a fight via takedown. It's pretty blatantly obvious to anyone who has watched the videos you are posting, including NHL fighters that he created a momentum swing and then set a leverage point and threw his opponent. You have the wrong priority of actions (he can't be trying for the trip when he's spinning him before the legs are set!) in your long post and now you're trying the "if he dies, he dies" route which is just... stupid.

Do you feel good about flexing here? Genuinely? You think this is the time to show you're a big boy? They can punch it out all day, I don't give a shit

No real fighter does what Chatfield did and nobody who wants to defend fighting should find that defensible. If you can't beat a guy... tie him up and go to the box together. What he did is f***ing wild and not at all to be normalized, which is exactly what you're doing.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Inherent risk of the sport that most heavyweights, wait for it... guard against and lower opponents to the ground when necessary. Knocked out opponents don't get dropped, ice is f***ing dangerous.

You can shake off all the experienced testimony you want, it only makes you sound like somebody more dedicated to being "right" than thinking about the reality of this situation. If there is still a "code" for fighters, Chatfield broke it and put his opponent in a season/career/life threatening position to win a fight via takedown. It's pretty blatantly obvious to anyone who has watched the videos you are posting, including NHL fighters that he created a momentum swing and then set a leverage point and threw his opponent. You have the wrong priority of actions (he can't be trying for the trip when he's spinning him before the legs are set!) in your long post and now you're trying the "if he dies, he dies" route which is just... stupid.

Do you feel good about flexing here? Genuinely? You think this is the time to show you're a big boy? They can punch it out all day, I don't give a shit

No real fighter does what Chatfield did and nobody who wants to defend fighting should find that defensible. If you can't beat a guy... tie him up and go to the box together. What he did is f***ing wild and not at all to be normalized, which is exactly what you're doing.

You’re right, no real fighter does this.

Neither does a non-fighter.

In fact, nobody does this.

Because picking a guy up off the ice during a fight is ****ing unheard of.

Because an NHL player is expected to stay on his feet during a fight.

The NHL didn’t bother to discipline this because they recognize that McMichael launching through the air was a fluke.

In any event, you’re in this thread saying stuff like “You think this is the time to show you're a big boy?” about this 3-day-old fight at the same time your star player just tied the all time goals record.

Get your priorities straight. This thread is old news. We’re closer to the next Canes-Caps game than to the last one.

See, I can write lots of lines of text too.

Good night.