Thoughts on Chatfield's Takedown Yesterday?

[gtrower]

I think this video is very fair to both sides of that incident.

I agree thanks for posting.

- Wilson lines up the hit

- Aho sees it coming and gets rid of the puck

- Aho pirouettes deftly out of the hit and then whips his stick out towards Wilson as he finishes, catching Wilson in the knee

That’s a cheap play that could have seriously injured the opponent. Seems to be a general theme here. If Aho is going to play that way he can’t just pretend it didn’t happen and decline the resultant fight. That’s how games devolve. As this one did.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Bro its a fight. once the gloves come off anything goes short of kicking a guy with your skate. You fight to inflict pain on the other player not make a new friend.

If the goal is to inflict pain then why would kicking a guy with your skate be forbidden?

 

[gtrower]

That’s legit hilarious and getting worked up over that is one of the softest most fragile things I can recall in recent memory

Agree, that Wilson check in the crease was a nothing play. Glad we can get past that one.

Jokes aside, no Caps fan started a thread on the Aho swing on Wilson’s knee. But when yall flood this thread with “WILSON WAS INSTIGATING WILDLY AHHHH” as justification for a dangerous play by a Canes player the context of why Wilson and the Caps were pissed seems appropriate to add.

It shouldn’t be some wild concept that when you take swings at knees, the other team wants the other guy/team to answer for it. And again, I’m okay with the no suspension. Chatfield/Aho will just have to answer the bell next week or the game will probably devolve again.

 

[Derailed75]

Since I am the forensic investigator for this play of the game I will kindly remind you of the following.

1. Wilson did not clear Walker from the crease because Walker was not in the crease. He was out of the blue paint and beside the net and slightly behind the goal line at the time of the cross check from Wilson while he was being engaged by TVR

2. When Walker made his singular attempt on the puck it was loose off a rebound and then quickly covered by the goalie

Not saying this changes what you’re saying but if you’re gonna do a non bias recap of events then let’s make sure they are in fact based on #facts

Also his idea of the incident started in the 3rd period, completely forgot the first two where Wilson was yelling at the Canes bench how "someone was going to get hurt tonight"
Also didn't mention that when Aho swung his stick at Wilson's leg it was because Wilson had just missed hitting Aho with a very high hit that was the reason for Ahos spin.

 

[John Mandalorian]

The league cant do anything. If they suspend him, theyre spelling out the rules for fighting, which also means they're tacitly endorsing fighting. And the league has enough on it's hands with borderline and dirty hits during live action. Nevermind two guys who are determined to fight each other.

 

[Nikishin al Gaib]

I agree thanks for posting.

- Wilson lines up the hit

- Aho sees it coming and gets rid of the puck

- Aho pirouettes deftly out of the hit and then whips his stick out towards Wilson as he finishes, catching Wilson in the knee

That’s a cheap play that could have seriously injured the opponent.

Yes you're right, Wilson headhunting all game after screaming at the Canes bench he was going to intentionally injure someone that game is very cheap and shouldn't be allowed to happen.

Oh, wait, you meant it's Aho avoiding the hit that was the cheap play?!?

 

[2014nyr]

its kinda hard for parros to issue discipline on this when there’s precedent for not doing so. Tom wilson did pretty much the exact same thing trying to whip panarin on his head a couple years ago.

Personally, i think there should be something. No nhl player would ever actually want to cause another moore type of injury on any other player…im sure chatfield would be sickened if he had on that play. That and the wilson play weren’t deliberate actions. There was no thought or plan to do them…its competitive and when things get heated sometimes guys wires cross where they aren’t thinking or in any control of themselves. The problem is once a player goes off the rails like that, it doesn’t matter what the punishment might be because they aren’t thinking. The only deterrent might be extreme penalties to where guys are aware of that possibility they consciously avoid getting anywhere near their boiling point…but that might really water down the intensity and physicality of the game as a result.

Like…giving those incidents a game or 2 is completely pointless. Giving them the 15-20 it’d probably take to really hold guys attention league-wide seems a bit over the top. I get dops leaning towards looking the other way…basically have to choose risking an extreme incident that occur very, very rarely every game…or deliberately water down the product every game. I don’t think there’s a player, coach, or league rep who chooses the latter, with only a tiny minority of fans disagreeing.

 

[TCIH]

A lot of fighting, in the moment, is instinctual. So when Chatfield has the impulse to do what he did to McMichael, he's not thinking about the possible consequences of that action, he's trying to come out on top in the fight.

But people have been saying in this thread that this kind of incident can lead to the end of fighting in the NHL and I agree completely. When two guys go at it on their skates, there's a certain amount of risk that the fighters are agreeing to, specifically the chance that one guy catches a right that turns the lights off. This maneuver, though, needs to be stopped as early as possible because I just don't like the odds of players having the presence of mind to keep their head up above their shoulders when they're being thrown down. It's much more risky. Someone is bound to crack their skull.

With that in mind, I think if the NHL is not going to suspend Chatfield for this particular incident (and I understand where they'd be coming from), this needs to be addressed in the rules in one way or another, and soon, before it becomes a trend.

 

[Lou Sassole]

If you think the Caps need to protect Wilson and not dress him then I guess that's a possibility as well. Still think it's more likely he does something stupid and gets suspended though.

They can still dress McIlrath.

 

[WreckingCrew]

I agree thanks for posting.

- Wilson lines up the hit

- Aho sees it coming and gets rid of the puck

- Aho pirouettes deftly out of the hit and then whips his stick out towards Wilson as he finishes, catching Wilson in the knee

That’s a cheap play that could have seriously injured the opponent. Seems to be a general theme here. If Aho is going to play that way he can’t just pretend it didn’t happen and decline the resultant fight. That’s how games devolve. As this one did.

Well, that's certainly a take...I guess...cognitive dissonance at it's finest!! I guess you probably think Necas was the bad guy for almost killing Trouba when he took flight into the boards because Necas ducked out of the way? Or that Hamilton tried to kill Ovie a few years ago when he shifted out of the way and let him slam himself into the boards?

 

[George Lebay]

Typical move coming from a classless organization, like the ones in Carolina or Ottawa, for that matter.

 

[Castle8130]

Pretty messed up. I know it looks cool, but this seriously crossed the line. Ice is just as hard as concrete. Had McMichael landed directly on his head, he could've been paralyzed or worse. Some people in street fights get slammed on their head and never wake up. Definitely worthy of a suspension in my opinion

 

[tarheelhockey]

That’s a cheap play that could have seriously injured the opponent.

You… cannot be serious with this. Right? In what possible way could someone be “seriously injured” by that?

If Aho is going to play that way he can’t just pretend it didn’t happen and decline the resultant fight. That’s how games devolve. As this one did.

Maybe you’re just trolling by repeating language back at people, but just as a matter of fact the game was already devolving by that point because Wilson was openly telling people he was going to injure them. His run at Aho was a failed attempt at catching a star with his head down for the purpose of delivering on that promise.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Agree, that Wilson check in the crease was a nothing play. Glad we can get past that one.

Jokes aside, no Caps fan started a thread on the Aho swing on Wilson’s knee. But when yall flood this thread with “WILSON WAS INSTIGATING WILDLY AHHHH” as justification for a dangerous play by a Canes player the context of why Wilson and the Caps were pissed seems appropriate to add.

It shouldn’t be some wild concept that when you take swings at knees, the other team wants the other guy/team to answer for it. And again, I’m okay with the no suspension. Chatfield/Aho will just have to answer the bell next week or the game will probably devolve again.

Lol... to take any intention off of the Aho play is insanity. He's avoiding a check. He doesn't swing his stick to hit Wilson. He got spun around and guess what? His stick hits Wilson on the follow through. It's purely accidental and to think anything else of it is actually insane.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

They can still dress McIlrath.

McIlrath is so dumb they probably have to dress him. Can't figure it out on his own.

 

[domiwroze]

That's the weird one where the players have to police themselves.

The league can't really do anything here, they already banned and penalized players that removes their helmets in fights. Then, they told the refs to step in faster once one of the players lose their helmets to lower the odds of those bad falls.

But then if a piece of shit like Chatfield does that in a fight, the players have to take responsibility at some point if they want to keep the fights in the game. It's more of a NHLPA case of every player in the league telling Chatfield to smarten up.

Also, keep your head up next game.

 

[zappa4ever]

Here’s the position they were in when Chatfield pulled on McMichael’s arm to try and get him off balance.

View attachment 1005858

Two important things here:

1) Chatfield, as he initiates the pull, is in no position to put his leg across McMichael’s. In fact their skates are perfectly positioned for that not to be possible, both in a hockey-stop position and parallel to each other.

2) McMichael is pivoting clockwise with his back foot. This becomes very important in the next split-second.

View attachment 1005863

This is where the leverage took hold.

Note that Chatfield’s skate position has not changed.

In this instant, McMichael’s entire body weight has suddenly shifted from his back foot to his front foot, causing his back foot to lift completely off the ice and his front foot to slide forward as it takes his weight. This is not “leverage move”, it’s a grown man’s entire body weight being physically lifted forward by his opponent.

View attachment 1005866


At this point, McMichael’s entire body goes ragdoll. You can watch a lot of hockey fights and never see someone end up in this position.

Note that Chatfield’s foot still has not moved — McMichael’s is sliding forward because he is being physically lifted for a split-second.

And, crucially, McMichael’s original clockwise inertia is now causing him to lean into the pull on his left arm, while his front foot continues to slide forward.

View attachment 1005873

This is where we run into a problem. Chatfield’s still pulling on that left arm, but once McMichael’s arm is fully extended his torso naturally needs to follow. You can see Chatfield fall back on his heels as the counterweight to his pull disappears. The inertia pivots both men on the only point which is still holding their body weights — their forward legs, which lock at the calf as they go into a flywheel motion.


Bearing in mind that this took place in a fraction of a second, I really really doubt that Chatfield had a controlled plan for how it would play out. What started as a simple jersey tug to throw his opponent off-balance turned into his opponent lifting off into a pirouette, which kind of had to be an unexpected twist.

I did some in-depth analysis too and
unfortunately there's something you might not have caught...

Frame 1:
- Neither player has a helmet on, yet Chatfield decides to go for a dangerous throw that risks cracking someone's skull open
Note: That means neither has a helmet on

Frame 2:
- NEITHER PLAYER HAS A HELMET ON, YET CHATFIELD DECIDES TO GO FOR A DANGEROUS THROW THAT RISKS CRACKING SOMEONE'S SKULL OPEN
Note: That means neither has a helmet on

Frame 3:
- NEITHER PLAYER HAS A HELMET ON, YET CHATFIELD DECIDES TO GO FOR A DANGEROUS THROW THAT RISKS CRACKING SOMEONE'S SKULL OPEN
Note: That means neither has a helmet on

Frame 4:
- NEITHER PLAYER HAS A HELMET ON, YET CHATFIELD DECIDES TO GO FOR A DANGEROUS THROW THAT RISKS CRACKING SOMEONE'S SKULL OPEN
Note: That means neither has a helmet on

In conclusion, don't be stupid.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I did some in-depth analysis too and
unfortunately there's something you might not have caught...

Frame 1:
- Neither player has a helmet on, yet Chatfield decides to go for a dangerous throw that risks cracking someone's skull open
Note: That means neither has a helmet on

Frame 2:
- NEITHER PLAYER HAS A HELMET ON, YET CHATFIELD DECIDES TO GO FOR A DANGEROUS THROW THAT RISKS CRACKING SOMEONE'S SKULL OPEN
Note: That means neither has a helmet on

Frame 3:
- NEITHER PLAYER HAS A HELMET ON, YET CHATFIELD DECIDES TO GO FOR A DANGEROUS THROW THAT RISKS CRACKING SOMEONE'S SKULL OPEN
Note: That means neither has a helmet on

Frame 4:
- NEITHER PLAYER HAS A HELMET ON, YET CHATFIELD DECIDES TO GO FOR A DANGEROUS THROW THAT RISKS CRACKING SOMEONE'S SKULL OPEN
Note: That means neither has a helmet on

In conclusion, don't be stupid.

Again, Chatfield didn’t “go for a throw”. That’s a naive and slightly ridiculous way to view it. He’s not a martial artist. He’s not even a fighter in the hockey sense. He’s not out there plotting stuff that even the heavyweights would be incapable of pulling off cleanly. This was the 0.01% of times that pulling on a guy’s jersey results in him completely lifting off like that.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

Again, Chatfield didn’t “go for a throw”. That’s a naive and slightly ridiculous way to view it. He’s not a martial artist. He’s not even a fighter in the hockey sense. He’s not out there plotting stuff that even the heavyweights would be incapable of pulling off cleanly. This was the 0.01% of times that pulling on a guy’s jersey results in him completely lifting off like that.

Goin for the middle ground- he absolutely meant to do that, I just don’t think he realized it was dangerous/over-the-line. Like I said on pg 1, it’s not that different from a lot of takedowns nowadays, his is just executed a bit too cleanly in a way that could really hurt someone.



^^Another judo throw, and one I love. Hands are tied up so as soon as he gets Marchand’s weight over his hip he’s gotta flip.

Obviously helmets are on there, but I don’t think you really consider these things when you’re in a fight. You just go on instinct, so while I feel Chatfield pulled a shitty move I don’t think it really reflects intention.

Also, unpopular take, but this is why I don’t like fighting overall- one day someone is gonna hit their head, it’s gonna be ugly, and then NHL will ban it after a big controversy/scandal. That’s just how these things go.

 

[Fatass]

I agree thanks for posting.

- Wilson lines up the hit

- Aho sees it coming and gets rid of the puck

- Aho pirouettes deftly out of the hit and then whips his stick out towards Wilson as he finishes, catching Wilson in the knee

That’s a cheap play that could have seriously injured the opponent. Seems to be a general theme here. If Aho is going to play that way he can’t just pretend it didn’t happen and decline the resultant fight. That’s how games devolve. As this one did.

Zero reason for Aho to fight, especially a guy like Wilson.

 

[jiitu]

This was a pretty short post, you really couldn't read the whole thing? Fighting is violence and I'm okay with it.

The takedown is something else and not the same. This should be a very easy thing for most hockey fans to come to an agreement on since we don't actually want to see people slap the back of their skull off the ice but for some reason you've got these Tom Wilson blinders on and can't see why this is an extra problem entirely outside of a chippy game with fights in it.

"Im for violence and fighting...oh but wait, you should bot do that, and do not do this, someone could have been hurt".

That's the most ridiculous attitude. Either you are for fights or you are not.

remwnber: so far there are no ice hockey player getting permanent injury from head hitting the ice in fight after such throw. But there are many serious injuries and also early deaths aftwr career related to hockey fights. From punches into head. And there are such from dirty hits on head a la Wilson.

If somethimg should be taken out, its dirty hits during game. If something else have to be taken out, are the fights in general.

But cheering for fights and then telling this should be banned is just....

 

[Fatass]

The league allows bare knuckle fighting. I’m expecting to see more guys, who don’t want to damage their hands on opponents helmets/visors to use more wrestling and judo moves. The danger to the linesmen with flying skates will become the issue of most concern.

 

[gtrower]

Lol... to take any intention off of the Aho play is insanity. He's avoiding a check. He doesn't swing his stick to hit Wilson. He got spun around and guess what? His stick hits Wilson on the follow through. It's purely accidental and to think anything else of it is actually insane.

I mean there’s a slow mo like 2 pages back. You can see where he finishes spinning and decides to whip his stick towards Wilson. I doubt he was trying to catch him in the knee. But he did.

 

[gtrower]

You… cannot be serious with this. Right? In what possible way could someone be “seriously injured” by that?



Maybe you’re just trolling by repeating language back at people, but just as a matter of fact the game was already devolving by that point because Wilson was openly telling people he was going to injure them. His run at Aho was a failed attempt at catching a star with his head down for the purpose of delivering on that promise.

19 pages of crying victim after slashing a knee and trying to crack a skull open.

“Took a run”
“Star with his head down”

My guy the videos are on the internet. In this thread even lol.

 

[jiitu]

I’m confused how the narrative has been spun that Wilson instigated the rise of tempers in this game causing this event.

- Aho took a swing at Wilson’s knee that sent him crumpling to the ground. Play went un-penalized.

What? Wilson tries to run on Aho's head in mid ice, Aho last moment escapes that with consequence that Wilson skates on Aho's stick and that is "a swing"?

Im guessing you also blame the driver in front of you, when you hit his car on rear.