- Jun 26, 2017
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Thoughts on Chatfield's Takedown Yesterday?
- Thread starter The Crypto Guy
- Start date
RussianBum86
Registered User
Nah not really. Have you ever been in a hockey fight? Some of the best fights end up on the ground and give them the business with the fist until the refs pull you off. Slamming a guy isn't against any rules in a fight and if the guy is worried about getting his head hurt then he shouldnt be fighting or playing hockey. Sometimes you catch a guy with a jab or uppercut and sometimes you catch them with a body slam.
HTFN
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- Feb 8, 2009
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Nope, not the same at all, and now you've got me questioning if you've ever been in a hockey fight at all let alone one with any respect for your opponent.
So have you? Do you genuinely think this is okay and just a risk you take when you throw gloves? Absolutely crazy.
RussianBum86
Registered User
You can get more brain damage from an open ice hit at full speed then the fist or a body slam in a fight. If someone throws a cheap shot you make them answer with a fight. You fight to win not make a friend.
HTFN
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I think we can all very much agree that having the unprotected side of your head slammed into the ice is one of the more dangerous things that can happen to you in ice hockey.
And what is this "cheap shot" McMichael is answering for? Not even close. Take this shit elsewhere.
RussianBum86
Registered User
So if you don't want to fight then dont fight. Nothing is wrong with slamming a guy or throwing punches. If your team doesn't like it send a guy to send a message after him with the fist. This is a hockey game not soccer or basketball.
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CanesUltimate11
Registered User
I don't disagree but the league has sadly already shown they're fine with this short of thing when Wilson tossed Panarin on his head a few years ago.
HTFN
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- Feb 8, 2009
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Yes, there absolutely is something wrong with that slam.
If you can't win a fight you tie up. Doing what was done here was excessive, done for a "win", and wildly more dangerous than two guys punching each other. You've seen the screenshots, I don't have to do a lot of work here. Throwing someone to their back with zero head protection on ice is wild behavior and visibly seems to be fully intentional.
Surely you aren't suggesting that fighters collectively shouldn't/don't care about their opponent when they've hit the ice, because that's some 101 code shit. This isn't a wrestling takedown on mats, it's a throw in a hockey fight on hard ice.
We can't even definitively say who wanted the fight, because Chatfield spun McMichael around to start shit in the first place. Even if they both wanted it, the whole point of allowing fighting while technically illegal is that most fighters know better than to do what Chatfield did. The tweets from fighters should underscore that point just fine, it wasn't okay or expected.
RussianBum86
Registered User
This is a game built around violence and physicality. If you want to watch guys fall and flop around penalties and not get punched or slammed turn on soccer or basketball. The whole warrior mentality and I will do anything to win for my team in the playoffs is built around bringing the pain train to the other team and getting them to fold under the pressure. Scott Stevens was a legend at doing this.
ChatGPT create an internet hockey forum post illustrating Poe's Law.
tarheelhockey
Offside Review Specialist
Oh, I totally agree that he deliberately yanked on McMichael to try and take him down that way. I just don’t think there’s any way in hell that Chatfield, who’s 6’1” 188lb, expected McMichael to come flying bodily off the ice like a rag doll.
The idea that this was a “judo move” is premised on Chatfield having the intent to lift McMichael completely off his feet like that. I seriously doubt it was the case, considering he has near-zero fighting experience and no particular size or strength factor.
Dude you're one of my favorite posters, and if this didn't happen in a Canes' game you wouldn't be writing this.
He didn't lift him off his feet, he clearly twists him over his outstretched leg. You don't need to be huge, it's a leverage technique.
This sort of move is similar to headbutting. Fine for a remake of Roadhouse, no place in a hockey arena.
I’m confused how the narrative has been spun that Wilson instigated the rise of tempers in this game causing this event.
- Aho took a swing at Wilson’s knee that sent him crumpling to the ground. Play went un-penalized.
- Aho is then challenged for the play and declines to fight.
- Caps are now pissed that a swing at a knee went unresolved by both the refs and the offender.
- Wilson clears a player out of the crease on a covered puck with a cross check to the back. Wilson receives a subsequent cross check to the back.
- McMichael hits Chatfield and turns to leave. Chatfield pulls him back from skating away. Fight ensues. Chatfield slew foots him in a takedown instead of throwing a punch.
And somehow Canes fans are trying to spin this as Wilson’s fault and McMichael was asking for it? Wut?
I’m honestly fine with there not being a suspension. He’s probably not used to fighting and just wasn’t in control of what he was doing. If it happens again then there’s a pattern and suspend him. He’s going to have to answer for it either way when they play next week. Aho likely will as well one way or another.
- Aho took a swing at Wilson’s knee that sent him crumpling to the ground. Play went un-penalized.
- Aho is then challenged for the play and declines to fight.
- Caps are now pissed that a swing at a knee went unresolved by both the refs and the offender.
- Wilson clears a player out of the crease on a covered puck with a cross check to the back. Wilson receives a subsequent cross check to the back.
- McMichael hits Chatfield and turns to leave. Chatfield pulls him back from skating away. Fight ensues. Chatfield slew foots him in a takedown instead of throwing a punch.
And somehow Canes fans are trying to spin this as Wilson’s fault and McMichael was asking for it? Wut?
I’m honestly fine with there not being a suspension. He’s probably not used to fighting and just wasn’t in control of what he was doing. If it happens again then there’s a pattern and suspend him. He’s going to have to answer for it either way when they play next week. Aho likely will as well one way or another.
GIN ANTONIC
Registered User
Since I am the forensic investigator for this play of the game I will kindly remind you of the following.
1. Wilson did not clear Walker from the crease because Walker was not in the crease. He was out of the blue paint and beside the net and slightly behind the goal line at the time of the cross check from Wilson while he was being engaged by TVR
2. When Walker made his singular attempt on the puck it was loose off a rebound and then quickly covered by the goalie
Not saying this changes what you’re saying but if you’re gonna do a non bias recap of events then let’s make sure they are in fact based on #facts
tarheelhockey
Offside Review Specialist
Here’s the position they were in when Chatfield pulled on McMichael’s arm to try and get him off balance.
Two important things here:
1) Chatfield, as he initiates the pull, is in no position to put his leg across McMichael’s. In fact their skates are perfectly positioned for that not to be possible, both in a hockey-stop position and parallel to each other.
2) McMichael is pivoting clockwise with his back foot. This becomes very important in the next split-second.
This is where the leverage took hold.
Note that Chatfield’s skate position has not changed.
In this instant, McMichael’s entire body weight has suddenly shifted from his back foot to his front foot, causing his back foot to lift completely off the ice and his front foot to slide forward as it takes his weight. This is not “leverage move”, it’s a grown man’s entire body weight being physically lifted forward by his opponent.
At this point, McMichael’s entire body goes ragdoll. You can watch a lot of hockey fights and never see someone end up in this position.
Note that Chatfield’s foot still has not moved — McMichael’s is sliding forward because he is being physically lifted for a split-second.
And, crucially, McMichael’s original clockwise inertia is now causing him to lean into the pull on his left arm, while his front foot continues to slide forward.
This is where we run into a problem. Chatfield’s still pulling on that left arm, but once McMichael’s arm is fully extended his torso naturally needs to follow. You can see Chatfield fall back on his heels as the counterweight to his pull disappears. The inertia pivots both men on the only point which is still holding their body weights — their forward legs, which lock at the calf as they go into a flywheel motion.
Bearing in mind that this took place in a fraction of a second, I really really doubt that Chatfield had a controlled plan for how it would play out. What started as a simple jersey tug to throw his opponent off-balance turned into his opponent lifting off into a pirouette, which kind of had to be an unexpected twist.
Attachments
Eh I still think that’s if any neutral was watching that sequence they wouldn’t have thought it looked much different than any other sequence that happens a handful of times every game, but I won’t die on that hill as it’s not my main premise.
The hill I will die on is you can’t blame a team for ramping up tempers after their guy took a swing to the knee and both the refs/offender ignored it. If Aho doesn’t take that swing or just mans up and answers the bell for it that game probably finishes without much else of note. That’s what caused the downward spiral.
tarheelhockey
Offside Review Specialist
There's some good analysis here, but also a few problems
Frame 2 - McMichaels' right foot is off the ice (see the shadow) all his weight is on his left foot. Chatfield's left foot becomes the point of rotation, as it has changed position from frame 1.
McMichael's inertia is not what's causing the rotation, it's Chatfield pulling him across his foot and eventually over his leg. Yes it happened because he physically was capable of pulling McMichael. It's easy to see in the final frame Chatfield's weight is on his right foot.
You're right, I find it hard to believe Chatfield went into this event thinking he was going to knee trip McMichael; but that's what he did.
tarheelhockey
Offside Review Specialist
That’s all I was trying to say — people are talking about this like it was a literal judo/UFC move that he pulled on purpose. That’s very hard to believe, especially when there’s no particular reason a guy would be able to ragdoll an opponent roughly his same size.
GIN ANTONIC
Registered User
With regards to the Wilson cross checking play it has been brought up many times in this thread that ‘this type of thing happens almost every game’ to which I say it’s missing the point.
Just because it happens frequently, doesn’t mean it should (reckless dirty cross check after the whistle) and also, that doesn’t change the fact that a team is going to see that happen and potentially react and respond to it.
So, no, you can’t really brush it off as ‘it happens all the time’ so there’s nothing to be done about it.
I will have to watch the replays of the other points you brought up to give a take on those
Just because it happens frequently, doesn’t mean it should (reckless dirty cross check after the whistle) and also, that doesn’t change the fact that a team is going to see that happen and potentially react and respond to it.
So, no, you can’t really brush it off as ‘it happens all the time’ so there’s nothing to be done about it.
I will have to watch the replays of the other points you brought up to give a take on those
GIN ANTONIC
Registered User
Edit: Jesus Christ… is the Aho slash that everyone’s talking about what happened when Wilson tried to check him???? Please tell me we’re not serious here.
Aho passes the puck and avoids the oncoming hit from Wilson as best as possible spinning off of him. His stick hits Wilson in the process. Good god to retaliate or escalate based on that is insane.
Please tell me there is some other slash I don’t know about. That’s f***ing clown shoes guys.
Aho passes the puck and avoids the oncoming hit from Wilson as best as possible spinning off of him. His stick hits Wilson in the process. Good god to retaliate or escalate based on that is insane.
Please tell me there is some other slash I don’t know about. That’s f***ing clown shoes guys.
tarheelhockey
Offside Review Specialist
The video i posted a few posts above… that’s the “slash” they’re talking about.
Fighting is banned. Do words not have meanings anymore? Do you mean more severely punished?
Bare knuckle fighting on ice is always dangerous. Also, every year multiple fights end up in takedowns, judo throws and even people pummelling someone that's already down on the ice.
At some point someone in the NHL will die in a fight and then every American will throw their hands up in the air in disbelief and ask a stupid question: "how could something like this happen?" Well, when big men fight on an ice surface then once in a while it might end up in disaster and someone getting seriously hurt.
At some point someone in the NHL will die in a fight and then every American will throw their hands up in the air in disbelief and ask a stupid question: "how could something like this happen?" Well, when big men fight on an ice surface then once in a while it might end up in disaster and someone getting seriously hurt.
GIN ANTONIC
Registered User
That’s legit hilarious and getting worked up over that is one of the softest most fragile things I can recall in recent memory
